The thing you said about Paladin being immune to nerfs because it has top tier even and odd decks is completely untrue.
Call to arms and Level up were nerfed specifically because of their power in even/odd decks and after the nerf the other archtype didn't use them at all because they're built differently.
Paladin isn't broken at all. Odd Paladin is good but very counterable. Even is strong but it's matchups aren't polarized and it's plays are very predictable. Exodia pally is a super cool deck imo, but it's not broken. It has trouble with sticky boards or decks with a lot of refill, and it's slower than most other combo decks so it often loses there.
Just like it was said paladin isnt nerf imune just because it has even and odd decks, i mean sometimes the card just isnt fit for what the deck wants to do or just inst that good for that mana cost
If Odd Paladin was invincible I would not continually pound it into the ground with my post-nerf Taunt Druid and Kingsbane decks. Control Priest, Dragon Warrior, the list goes on and on for decks that match up well against Paladins. No matter what the top decks are people complain if they are not playing them. Hunter was left completely out of the big nerfing, but people are still crying about paldain decks, really? Also, I'm not whining about Hunter. I just think that if it is necessary to complain there are better places on which to focus.
It takes a community of millions of players weeks, if not months to invent and refine decks and archetypes, and you expect Blizzard with their 100 or so employees to fully figure out a 'meta' before they release an expansion?
How naive can you get...
Naive enough to recognize another Naive ...... Theres nothing to Invent or explore The Meta is already there you just need to add cards to existed Meta Decks and see if it Balanced or not -_-
as for Archetypes they add them in every expansion to create something new and fresh to the game nothing special but Kaladin confused me little there .
Oh right I forgot you were the expert when it comes to figuring out a meta before an expansion's released.
But wait, it takes an entire community and analysts millions of games during multiple weeks to playtest decks and only then will some sort of meta form. If you can figure everything out before them, how come you aren't the best player in the world then? Surely with your vast amount of knowledge that should be an easy feat, right?
Get real, will you? You didn't know Master's call hunter would be a thing. You didn't know that Odd Taunt warrior would rise once again. You weren't the one who invented cubelock during the Witchwood.
"Just add cards to existing decks and see if they work". This guy, lmao...
Even paladin went from virtually unbeatable to a powerful, flexible and competitive deck, but hardly unfair. So the nerf worked. Odd paladin never really bothered me that much, but you can be sure that level up nerf has impacted it, probably improving the match up for certain classes.
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Fundamental BS. T5 print specific for aggressive decks to rule and even dominate the meta. Seen it every expansion. It's card design politics. Who thinks that they don't know in advance which archetypes will be top tier, is fundamentally ignorant how HS became a succes (feeding mindlessness).
Source?
Just look back at all the previous posts, the source is clearly the same as Trumps. The little voice in the back of their head that keeps reassuring them that they know best, they have the biggliest view of Hearthstone and how it should be. In fact there has never been someone who knows about Hearthstone, card design or game design as much as them. All these people who use reasoned arguments to show all the errors and inaccuracies in their wild ramblings about mindlessness and how Blizzard control the game to keep it aggro are just FAKE NEWS and out to get them.
Probably got their own little MHCO hat as well (Make Hearthstone Control Only)
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Fundamental BS. T5 print specific for aggressive decks to rule and even dominate the meta. Seen it every expansion. It's card design politics. Who thinks that they don't know in advance which archetypes will be top tier, is fundamentally ignorant how HS became a succes (feeding mindlessness).
This made me chuckle. The best decks change day to day as the popularity of various decks cycles within the metagame. Last week the most successful deck at Legend was Odd Rogue (obviously aggro) teched for the mirror with Tar Creepers. This week its Hybrid Hunter, which is a Midrange Deck that beats Odd Rogue by playing an upgraded Spellstone, and is in a relatively good spot against every other deck that isn't Paladin or Cubelock. Over the next week Control Priest looks all but set to take the top spot, boasting positive matchups across the board except for Beast Hunter (which it still beats 46% of the time) and Odd Warrior (which is not highly represented because it has no game against combo decks). The following week who knows? Maybe Warrior will get a chance to shine for a couple of days before everyone starts playing OTKs again and we cycle back to faster decks to counter them.
Get real, will you? You didn't know Master's call hunter would be a thing. You didn't know that Odd Taunt warrior would rise once again. You weren't the one who invented cubelock during the Witchwood.
"Just add cards to existing decks and see if they work". This guy, lmao...
Yes i knew that Odd Taunt Warrior would rise once again -_-
wanna see the process of how i knew ?
long time ago about 8 months or something when WW cards revealed and i saw Baku the first class pop in my mind was Warrior ! why because long long time ago when i was enjoying playing Control warrior before nerfs Justicar Trueheart was one of the best cards in the deck . it was played only in warrior and i think priest in that time , and then i remembered that Quests cost one Mana ! ( Odd Number ) i got exited to play some kind of control Warrior once again .....
Its not a Rocket Science dude .... its just a Cards game ! geeez
Edit : I said before Boom Day Project that i can be comptietve by play the same version of Shuderwock Shaman that i played in WW in next expansion without adding any cards from the new SET and i did it !!
you can find my post in my profile if you want to see ...
Get real, will you? You didn't know Master's call hunter would be a thing. You didn't know that Odd Taunt warrior would rise once again. You weren't the one who invented cubelock during the Witchwood.
"Just add cards to existing decks and see if they work". This guy, lmao...
Yes i knew that Odd Taunt Warrior would rise once again -_-
wanna see the process of how i knew ?
long time ago about 8 months or something when WW cards revealed and i saw Baku the first class pop in my mind was Warrior ! why because long long time ago when i was enjoying playing Control warrior before nerfs Justicar Trueheart was one of the best cards in the deck . it was played only in warrior and i think priest in that time , and then i remembered that Quests cost one Mana ! ( Odd Number ) i got exited to play some kind of control Warrior once again .....
Its not a Rocket Science dude .... its just a Cards game ! geeez
Edit : I said before Boom Day Project that i can be comptietve by play the same version of Shuderwock Shaman that i played in WW in next expansion without adding any cards from the new SET and i did it !!
you can find my post in my profile if you want to see ...
I'm not sure if you're pretending or actually this oblivious at this point.
A decent deck =/= rise
I'm referring to this very meta where taunt warrior became tier 1 again, albeit for a brief spell.
Of course an OTK deck that was playable last expansion will still work now. You're not getting my point at all, are you?
Tell you what. As soon as all cards for the next expansion are revealed, you will tell us what the top decks are in their fully refined builds, alright? Shouldn't be too hard since it's "just a bunch of cards", en?
Sure Paladin was strong the last few expansions and still is but there are also lot of other decks out there that are strong too - so i personaly do not have a problem facing paladins - but i also don´t see them to often right now. And the nerfs did hit them and hurt them - not as impactful as druid or others but still not as strong as before!
Right now i´m playing a Control Priest and haven't lost to a single palading the last 5 times i faced them.
There always will be one class that will be stronger then others and therefor most of the players will scream for a nerf or call it "Druidstone , Hunterstone etc." - they can't please everybody!
The issue is they cant Nerf Odd or Even Paladin .....
they are only capable to nerf 1 or 2 cards in Odd Paladin that dosnt make Even paladin OP once again .
If both Odd and Even Paladin were seen as problematic, they would probably nerf a card from each deck. As it stands, both are solid contenders but neither are causing any issues.
Get real, will you? You didn't know Master's call hunter would be a thing. You didn't know that Odd Taunt warrior would rise once again. You weren't the one who invented cubelock during the Witchwood.
"Just add cards to existing decks and see if they work". This guy, lmao...
Yes i knew that Odd Taunt Warrior would rise once again -_-
wanna see the process of how i knew ?
long time ago about 8 months or something when WW cards revealed and i saw Baku the first class pop in my mind was Warrior ! why because long long time ago when i was enjoying playing Control warrior before nerfs Justicar Trueheart was one of the best cards in the deck . it was played only in warrior and i think priest in that time , and then i remembered that Quests cost one Mana ! ( Odd Number ) i got exited to play some kind of control Warrior once again .....
Its not a Rocket Science dude .... its just a Cards game ! geeez
Edit : I said before Boom Day Project that i can be comptietve by play the same version of Shuderwock Shaman that i played in WW in next expansion without adding any cards from the new SET and i did it !!
you can find my post in my profile if you want to see ...
Taunt Warrior fares well against aggro (hunter, rogue etc.) Obviously it is a good deck now. Just like Quest Rogue is good in a control dominated meta. You are right; that's not rocket science. Your arguments are not waterproof.
Justicar was also played in Control Priest and Midrange Paladin, not only warrior. You can check old decklists on this site.
As for your edit. Obviously a strong deck is still going to be strong, even after new additions to the game, as long as a popular counter is not implemented, this was the case with Shudderwock Shaman in Boomsday. The deck did not lose anything. I honestly don't get what your point is.
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Fundamental BS. T5 print specific for aggressive decks to rule and even dominate the meta. Seen it every expansion. It's card design politics. Who thinks that they don't know in advance which archetypes will be top tier, is fundamentally ignorant how HS became a succes (feeding mindlessness).
Source?
Source? Let me return the favor dear mr. Kaladin:
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Source?
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Source?
You see dear mr. Kaladin, we all know T5 - Blizzard is a closed organization on virtually all topics that has the interest of the community. To name a few:
Reasons why certain cards are printed. (remember Brode on Shudderwock?).
Reasons why certain cards are nerfed and others don't.
No openess to the RNG- mechanic to investigate possibility of rigging.
Reasons why at least 75% of all T1 decks are either aggressive aggro or agressive midrange.
Why the skill floor and win condition of meta decks respectively is low and that easy.
Why there is no diversity in win conditions: the two main win conditions are: a) aggressive spam, buff go face or b) if you don't kill me in time you are dead by default.
The nature of balance politics.
The relation between avarage skill level of the game and pack selling.
Why the meta is generally polarized, therefore RPS is that steep.
And so forth. So Blizzard is never giving insight in anything to anybody. The only thing we have is speculation and analysis. There you have your answer. There are no sourcess for no one.
Opinion about the game depends on the way you analyse.
So dear mr. Kaladin you like to show off your knowledge of the game within the framework of what Blizzard puts on the table (this card vs. that card, this class, vs. that etc.). I, myself take a step back and analyse the performance of developers based on provided skill, balance, diversity, questions mentioned and more.
Do you really think cards are conceived on a saterdaynight after 10 beers? Do you really thing developers don't think about the impact on the meta in relation to pack selling? Do you really think they don't have a target audience for whom they predominately print cards: the fanboys?
Everyone who thinks developers just print cards and don't know upfront what the meta will be as basis of their succes and the succes of the game as a whole, is quite naive. Succes of this game = target audience = the mindless low skill demanding fanboy = card design politics.
That's not how it works. You, who made the claim in the positive, have the burden of proof. The onus is not on me to prove that something is NOT true.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
When you are intellectually cornered, the 'that's not how it works' is not even close an easy way out. It just shows you're fraud, pretending to be knowledgeable, but in the end just a loud common fanboy.
Much in the same way that when you're intellectually challenged saying:
I, myself take a step back and analyse the performance of developers based on provided skill, balance, diversity, questions mentioned and more.
is "not how it works" and doesn't really add any weight to your crazed ramblings or desire to feel unique and superior. It's the same reason there's no point trying to debate with conspiracy nuts, they have made up their mind, they've found their evidence and done their "critical thinking" and everyone else is just a sheeple or a shill.
You're like a toddler stating they've done a thorough assessment of the nutritional benefits of chocolate and despite what their nutritional fanboy parents say they're just naïve and it should be chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
No, you are wrong. If you make a claim in the positive, the burden of proof is on YOU. Where is the evidence that Blizzard is controlling specific decks and classes, manipulating what they want to be top tier? Where is the evidence that a small team of developers is smarter and more creative (and over a fractionally smaller sample size) and knows in advance than its hundreds of thousands of players (regarding the release of cards and the resulting meta)? Do you honestly believe that T5 made Shudderwock because they wanted and knew in advance that OTK Shudderwock Shaman would be a strong deck? Do you honestly believe they made Azalina and Togwaggle because they wanted and knew in advance that Togwaggle Druid would be a strong deck?
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
You're like a toddler stating they've done a thorough assessment of the nutritional benefits of chocolate and despite what their nutritional fanboy parents say they're just naïve and it should be chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
This is one of the best sentences I have read on this site. /slowclaps
Anyway, I feel like paladin is successful right now because it has three different ways to approach the game. Odd paladin which is aggro, even paladin which is midrange and OTK paladin which is control/combo. These decks work because paladin has a naturally strong hero power and in the last 6 expansions got good cards to support for decks like this to rise up. Things like Call to Arms is still just a strong card even though it was nerfed. It fell off the radar because after it was nerfed, there was no deck that would want it, but it doesn't change the fact it's essentially 5 mana: draw 3 and play 5-6 mana worth of creatures. In the last 6 expansions, paladin has almost always had some place in the meta due to the fact it has gotten strong cards every expansion. The only time it was not somewhere in the meta was in KFT, where it still got a lot of strong cards it would use later.
The base set for paladin isn't that great, especially when compared to the cards in supplemental sets. None of the paladin decks feel that polarizing right now to face anyway so I feel like the class is in a fine spot right now, especially since it should be falling out of favor in 3 months.
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I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
If thats true then this is a Huge problem ... if i create a game i will definietly try it first before i release it ... wait a sec ! your RIGHT ! Freeze shaman , treant druid , Disolock , mech warrior ....... Etc was pushed blindly !! OMG
It takes a community of millions of players weeks, if not months to invent and refine decks and archetypes, and you expect Blizzard with their 100 or so employees to fully figure out a 'meta' before they release an expansion?
How naive can you get...
You do know that new archetype decks get created within hours (even minutes) of card reveals for each expansion - before the expansion has even been released, right?
Naivety is acceptable, fallacy is less so...
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The thing you said about Paladin being immune to nerfs because it has top tier even and odd decks is completely untrue.
Call to arms and Level up were nerfed specifically because of their power in even/odd decks and after the nerf the other archtype didn't use them at all because they're built differently.
Paladin isn't broken at all. Odd Paladin is good but very counterable. Even is strong but it's matchups aren't polarized and it's plays are very predictable. Exodia pally is a super cool deck imo, but it's not broken. It has trouble with sticky boards or decks with a lot of refill, and it's slower than most other combo decks so it often loses there.
Just like it was said paladin isnt nerf imune just because it has even and odd decks, i mean sometimes the card just isnt fit for what the deck wants to do or just inst that good for that mana cost
If Odd Paladin was invincible I would not continually pound it into the ground with my post-nerf Taunt Druid and Kingsbane decks. Control Priest, Dragon Warrior, the list goes on and on for decks that match up well against Paladins. No matter what the top decks are people complain if they are not playing them. Hunter was left completely out of the big nerfing, but people are still crying about paldain decks, really? Also, I'm not whining about Hunter. I just think that if it is necessary to complain there are better places on which to focus.
Oh right I forgot you were the expert when it comes to figuring out a meta before an expansion's released.
But wait, it takes an entire community and analysts millions of games during multiple weeks to playtest decks and only then will some sort of meta form. If you can figure everything out before them, how come you aren't the best player in the world then? Surely with your vast amount of knowledge that should be an easy feat, right?
Get real, will you? You didn't know Master's call hunter would be a thing. You didn't know that Odd Taunt warrior would rise once again. You weren't the one who invented cubelock during the Witchwood.
"Just add cards to existing decks and see if they work". This guy, lmao...
Even paladin went from virtually unbeatable to a powerful, flexible and competitive deck, but hardly unfair. So the nerf worked. Odd paladin never really bothered me that much, but you can be sure that level up nerf has impacted it, probably improving the match up for certain classes.
Just look back at all the previous posts, the source is clearly the same as Trumps. The little voice in the back of their head that keeps reassuring them that they know best, they have the biggliest view of Hearthstone and how it should be. In fact there has never been someone who knows about Hearthstone, card design or game design as much as them. All these people who use reasoned arguments to show all the errors and inaccuracies in their wild ramblings about mindlessness and how Blizzard control the game to keep it aggro are just FAKE NEWS and out to get them.
Probably got their own little MHCO hat as well (Make Hearthstone Control Only)
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
This made me chuckle. The best decks change day to day as the popularity of various decks cycles within the metagame. Last week the most successful deck at Legend was Odd Rogue (obviously aggro) teched for the mirror with Tar Creepers. This week its Hybrid Hunter, which is a Midrange Deck that beats Odd Rogue by playing an upgraded Spellstone, and is in a relatively good spot against every other deck that isn't Paladin or Cubelock. Over the next week Control Priest looks all but set to take the top spot, boasting positive matchups across the board except for Beast Hunter (which it still beats 46% of the time) and Odd Warrior (which is not highly represented because it has no game against combo decks). The following week who knows? Maybe Warrior will get a chance to shine for a couple of days before everyone starts playing OTKs again and we cycle back to faster decks to counter them.
Yes i knew that Odd Taunt Warrior would rise once again -_-
wanna see the process of how i knew ?
long time ago about 8 months or something when WW cards revealed and i saw Baku the first class pop in my mind was Warrior ! why because long long time ago when i was enjoying playing Control warrior before nerfs Justicar Trueheart was one of the best cards in the deck . it was played only in warrior and i think priest in that time , and then i remembered that Quests cost one Mana ! ( Odd Number ) i got exited to play some kind of control Warrior once again .....
Its not a Rocket Science dude .... its just a Cards game ! geeez
Edit : I said before Boom Day Project that i can be comptietve by play the same version of Shuderwock Shaman that i played in WW in next expansion without adding any cards from the new SET and i did it !!
you can find my post in my profile if you want to see ...
I'm not sure if you're pretending or actually this oblivious at this point.
A decent deck =/= rise
I'm referring to this very meta where taunt warrior became tier 1 again, albeit for a brief spell.
Of course an OTK deck that was playable last expansion will still work now. You're not getting my point at all, are you?
Tell you what. As soon as all cards for the next expansion are revealed, you will tell us what the top decks are in their fully refined builds, alright? Shouldn't be too hard since it's "just a bunch of cards", en?
The issue is they cant Nerf Odd or Even Paladin .....
they are only capable to nerf 1 or 2 cards in Odd Paladin that dosnt make Even paladin OP once again .
Do you know what im saying ?
If both Odd and Even Paladin were seen as problematic, they would probably nerf a card from each deck. As it stands, both are solid contenders but neither are causing any issues.
Taunt Warrior fares well against aggro (hunter, rogue etc.) Obviously it is a good deck now. Just like Quest Rogue is good in a control dominated meta. You are right; that's not rocket science. Your arguments are not waterproof.
Justicar was also played in Control Priest and Midrange Paladin, not only warrior. You can check old decklists on this site.
As for your edit. Obviously a strong deck is still going to be strong, even after new additions to the game, as long as a popular counter is not implemented, this was the case with Shudderwock Shaman in Boomsday. The deck did not lose anything. I honestly don't get what your point is.
Pardon?
delete, replied to the wrong person.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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That's not how it works. You, who made the claim in the positive, have the burden of proof. The onus is not on me to prove that something is NOT true.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Much in the same way that when you're intellectually challenged saying:
is "not how it works" and doesn't really add any weight to your crazed ramblings or desire to feel unique and superior. It's the same reason there's no point trying to debate with conspiracy nuts, they have made up their mind, they've found their evidence and done their "critical thinking" and everyone else is just a sheeple or a shill.
You're like a toddler stating they've done a thorough assessment of the nutritional benefits of chocolate and despite what their nutritional fanboy parents say they're just naïve and it should be chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
No, you are wrong. If you make a claim in the positive, the burden of proof is on YOU. Where is the evidence that Blizzard is controlling specific decks and classes, manipulating what they want to be top tier? Where is the evidence that a small team of developers is smarter and more creative (and over a fractionally smaller sample size) and knows in advance than its hundreds of thousands of players (regarding the release of cards and the resulting meta)? Do you honestly believe that T5 made Shudderwock because they wanted and knew in advance that OTK Shudderwock Shaman would be a strong deck? Do you honestly believe they made Azalina and Togwaggle because they wanted and knew in advance that Togwaggle Druid would be a strong deck?
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
This is one of the best sentences I have read on this site. /slowclaps
Jeez this thread got off on a wild tangent.
Anyway, I feel like paladin is successful right now because it has three different ways to approach the game. Odd paladin which is aggro, even paladin which is midrange and OTK paladin which is control/combo. These decks work because paladin has a naturally strong hero power and in the last 6 expansions got good cards to support for decks like this to rise up. Things like Call to Arms is still just a strong card even though it was nerfed. It fell off the radar because after it was nerfed, there was no deck that would want it, but it doesn't change the fact it's essentially 5 mana: draw 3 and play 5-6 mana worth of creatures. In the last 6 expansions, paladin has almost always had some place in the meta due to the fact it has gotten strong cards every expansion. The only time it was not somewhere in the meta was in KFT, where it still got a lot of strong cards it would use later.
The base set for paladin isn't that great, especially when compared to the cards in supplemental sets. None of the paladin decks feel that polarizing right now to face anyway so I feel like the class is in a fine spot right now, especially since it should be falling out of favor in 3 months.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
You do know that new archetype decks get created within hours (even minutes) of card reveals for each expansion - before the expansion has even been released, right?
Naivety is acceptable, fallacy is less so...