Do you guys think that Ramp and mid-range druid will still be just as strong and viable later on when all the cards come out as they are now? Or will Token be the top archetype?
Do you guys think that Ramp and mid-range druid will still be just as strong and viable later on when all the cards come out as they are now? Or will Token be the top archetype?
I think that Ramp druid will be as strong as it is now, maybe even better.
Thanks to everyone for their ideas earlier in this thread, I played around with this deck last night and wanted to share my results/thoughts. This deck was a lot of fun, especially in the games where I was able to pull off a turn 4 violet + innervate + power of the wild then follow up with Savage roar for the win on turn 5 (even had the baby spiders on board as well). It has a lot of explosive potential but seems somewhat inconsistent. It is designed to crush zoo which it does very well but really struggles against a lot of the other decks in it's current form.
Played about half of my games with wild growth and half without, I do not really think it's needed in this deck. There was never really a turn I felt like skipping to play it so ultimately I cut it. Also played about 25% of my games with 2x Knife Juggler and another half with 1x but ultimately cut to make room for other cards. It's nice when you get a spider pop or token/daggers off of them but it didn't feel like it happened enough to be worth it. This deck is definitely great against zoo and other aggro decks but I was really struggling against mid-range decks. I put Onyxia in as a final threat to try to close out games. I did help me close out the one handlock game I won which was very close and one of the druid games I probably would have lost otherwise, It also earned me one rage quit out of a zoo in a "win more" situation. Still undecided about her.
total games 23
Warlock (8) - 5W 4L (5-1 vs zoo, 1-3 vs handlock). Handlock matchup I was close a few times using poison seed to break down their taunt wall but my follow up was weak. As mentioned earlier in the thread Nerub'ar Weblord absolutely destroys zoo, especially when coined out with Mark of the Wild follow up. Mulligan aggressively for this card. The only zoo game I lost he finished me with T5 doomguard, T6 doomguard + Soulfire.
Mage (2) - 2W 0L (one vs frost, one vs aggro). Very easy wins but I had good draws both times.
Priest (2) - 1W 1L . I got a good draw and felt pretty lucky in the game I did win and it was still close. Feels like this will be a weak matchup unless you get a really good board early.
Shaman (3) - 1W 2L got totally smoked and was lucky to win the game that I did. This matchup felt really hard to me and I resorted to using Poison Seeds in a bad situation which was followed up by a bloodlust and a loss. Not sure what could done to improve this match.
Rogue (1) - 1W 0L (Aggro) - Pretty even game where my board overwhelmed him in the end with Violet Teacher and Power of the Wild.
Druid (6) - 3W 3L All of these games pretty much depended on whether or not I had a turn 4 violet + innervate + Power of the wild. Any game where you can pull\off this combo is almost insta win. Experimented with saving Nerub'ar Weblord to block Azure Drake but since standard druid also has DoTC and Innervate + Ancient of Lore etc. it seems weak.
Warrior (1) - Control warrior, never had a chance
Here is the deck I ended up with. Thoughts/suggestions?
Warlock - Wow there are a lot of them on the ladder right now. I agree that this deck archetype destroys zoo. I don't even run the Weblord and was just capable of making good trades all day. Handlock was tougher, I think I'm at 50% against them, but that's partially because I keep misplaying and giving them cheap Molten Giants instead of waiting for that final burst.
Priest - I didn't have a lot of problems here. I think the key thing for me was that I run Soul of the Forest. Basically, I can afford to have them wipe my board over and over, because it will always replenish itself. Plus I win Poison Seeds matchups because my creature replace themselves and leave me with stronger board control.
Shaman - Can't even deal with them. Lost every game I played against a shaman. Blech.
Warrior - Even before Naxx, when I was testing out what I could with this deck, Warriors just can't deal with it. They don't have enough board clear or silence.
That's all I played against last night. Seriously, so many Warlocks.
Edit - I should note that my deck can be seen on page 2 of this thread, and I switched in Argent Squire instead of Knife Juggler to great effect.
Warlock - Wow there are a lot of them on the ladder right now. I agree that this deck archetype destroys zoo. I don't even run the Weblord and was just capable of making good trades all day. Handlock was tougher, I think I'm at 50% against them, but that's partially because I keep misplaying and giving them cheap Molten Giants instead of waiting for that final burst.
Agreed! Made the same mistake against Zoo in one of my game.
Priest - I didn't have a lot of problems here. I think the key thing for me was that I run Soul of the Forest. Basically, I can afford to have them wipe my board over and over, because it will always replenish itself. Plus I win Poison Seeds matchups because my creature replace themselves and leave me with stronger board control.
Will have to try out Soul of the Forest. Only running one Poison Seed myself, maybe it will help extend the mid game potential of this deck. Seems like it would be slow to me but I am really struggling if I lose board control vs mid-control decks.
You're pretty much guaranteed to hit Handlock, I think, but I think Poison Seeds is actually better in the matchup than BGH. Especially if you can play it on a turn where they've dropped two or three of their giants. It just completely wrecks them, and you have other cards in your deck that allow you to buff up your treants and/or have a larger field because your guys drop their own little guys.
PlayerKent - I really like your use of Soul of the Forest in the deck too. Man... need bigger decks (that's what she said) cause there are too many cards that I want to have in there.
Agreed. I'm really hoping that when Naxx is done their next thing will be working on putting in some other ways to play. Multiplayer, higher life and deck size, etc. I wouldn't even ask them to balance for those formats, just that they be there.
I don't like poison seeds because vs aggro, it will be a dead card, while BGH will be a Panther without stealth.
I don't feel like BGH is very useful against aggro either, though. Two health makes him really squishy, and if you have the deck to support it, which I think these are, Poison Seeds can leave you with a much stronger field than the other deck. BGH still has a lot of merit, I just don't think it's any better against aggro than our new toy.
I don't like poison seeds because vs aggro, it will be a dead card, while BGH will be a Panther without stealth.
I don't feel like BGH is very useful against aggro either, though. Two health makes him really squishy, and if you have the deck to support it, which I think these are, Poison Seeds can leave you with a much stronger field than the other deck. BGH still has a lot of merit, I just don't think it's any better against aggro than our new toy.
I agree. There are plenty of opportunities to use the seeds, even in the worst matchups. Sure, there are times when you'd rather have other plays, but that's also true for BGH. Seeds is almost never completely dead because you can always use it to activate your own deathrattles and because many aggro decks still run things that can be shrunken (Doomguard, Nerubian, Dark Iron Dwarf). Although it can be an issue against rush Paladin and Shaman. I've just begun testing it, but so far I am happily playing it over BGH. There just weren't enough BGH targets for me to feel good about it in my build, so I dropped him a while back when people stopped putting Ragnaros into every deck.
I was skeptical about seeds as well. I've been running 1 copy to test it out. Still not sold on it but there have been situations where I've been happy to have it. I've used it to break down handlock taunt walls and rag on an empty board....time will tell.
I haven't played it against a Paladin yet, but I will concede that Poison Seeds feels absolutely terrible against Shaman. On the other hand I haven't found much that feels good in that matchup.
MrKCvZ, I actually looked through your Silence This deck, and I find it inspiring! LOL Hope you can constantly update that deck when more cards are released ;)
MrKCvZ, I actually looked through your Silence This deck, and I find it inspiring! LOL Hope you can constantly update that deck when more cards are released ;)
Thanks! But actually, there is a problem with that... From 1st to 17-18th August I'll be away from home on a camping trip, so I won't be able to enter the new wings and update the decklist. I'm sorry but holidays are holidays :)
I've found Poison Seeds useful in the mirror match when the Druid is running Big Taunts. There's nothing more satisfying than watching their Ancient of War become a treant. Yes, they get to attack with it first, but it's usually their one or two treants vs. my three/four treants + other deathrattle minions.
Do you guys think that Ramp and mid-range druid will still be just as strong and viable later on when all the cards come out as they are now? Or will Token be the top archetype?
I think that Ramp druid will be as strong as it is now, maybe even better.
https://soundcloud.com/zenkreyofficial/danny-darko-hurricane-zenkrey-remix
A turn one or two Spectral Knight is going to cause people all sorts of heartache.
Spectral Knight will be so sick.
BTW: "xxx is love, xxx is life" - what is this? Seen different ppl using this phrase^^
Thanks to everyone for their ideas earlier in this thread, I played around with this deck last night and wanted to share my results/thoughts. This deck was a lot of fun, especially in the games where I was able to pull off a turn 4 violet + innervate + power of the wild then follow up with Savage roar for the win on turn 5 (even had the baby spiders on board as well). It has a lot of explosive potential but seems somewhat inconsistent. It is designed to crush zoo which it does very well but really struggles against a lot of the other decks in it's current form.
Played about half of my games with wild growth and half without, I do not really think it's needed in this deck. There was never really a turn I felt like skipping to play it so ultimately I cut it. Also played about 25% of my games with 2x Knife Juggler and another half with 1x but ultimately cut to make room for other cards. It's nice when you get a spider pop or token/daggers off of them but it didn't feel like it happened enough to be worth it. This deck is definitely great against zoo and other aggro decks but I was really struggling against mid-range decks. I put Onyxia in as a final threat to try to close out games. I did help me close out the one handlock game I won which was very close and one of the druid games I probably would have lost otherwise, It also earned me one rage quit out of a zoo in a "win more" situation. Still undecided about her.
total games 23
Warlock (8) - 5W 4L (5-1 vs zoo, 1-3 vs handlock). Handlock matchup I was close a few times using poison seed to break down their taunt wall but my follow up was weak. As mentioned earlier in the thread Nerub'ar Weblord absolutely destroys zoo, especially when coined out with Mark of the Wild follow up. Mulligan aggressively for this card. The only zoo game I lost he finished me with T5 doomguard, T6 doomguard + Soulfire.
Mage (2) - 2W 0L (one vs frost, one vs aggro). Very easy wins but I had good draws both times.
Priest (2) - 1W 1L . I got a good draw and felt pretty lucky in the game I did win and it was still close. Feels like this will be a weak matchup unless you get a really good board early.
Shaman (3) - 1W 2L got totally smoked and was lucky to win the game that I did. This matchup felt really hard to me and I resorted to using Poison Seeds in a bad situation which was followed up by a bloodlust and a loss. Not sure what could done to improve this match.
Rogue (1) - 1W 0L (Aggro) - Pretty even game where my board overwhelmed him in the end with Violet Teacher and Power of the Wild.
Druid (6) - 3W 3L All of these games pretty much depended on whether or not I had a turn 4 violet + innervate + Power of the wild. Any game where you can pull\off this combo is almost insta win. Experimented with saving Nerub'ar Weblord to block Azure Drake but since standard druid also has DoTC and Innervate + Ancient of Lore etc. it seems weak.
Warrior (1) - Control warrior, never had a chance
Here is the deck I ended up with. Thoughts/suggestions?
Warlock - Wow there are a lot of them on the ladder right now. I agree that this deck archetype destroys zoo. I don't even run the Weblord and was just capable of making good trades all day. Handlock was tougher, I think I'm at 50% against them, but that's partially because I keep misplaying and giving them cheap Molten Giants instead of waiting for that final burst.
Priest - I didn't have a lot of problems here. I think the key thing for me was that I run Soul of the Forest. Basically, I can afford to have them wipe my board over and over, because it will always replenish itself. Plus I win Poison Seeds matchups because my creature replace themselves and leave me with stronger board control.
Shaman - Can't even deal with them. Lost every game I played against a shaman. Blech.
Warrior - Even before Naxx, when I was testing out what I could with this deck, Warriors just can't deal with it. They don't have enough board clear or silence.
That's all I played against last night. Seriously, so many Warlocks.
Edit - I should note that my deck can be seen on page 2 of this thread, and I switched in Argent Squire instead of Knife Juggler to great effect.
Agreed! Made the same mistake against Zoo in one of my game.
Will have to try out Soul of the Forest. Only running one Poison Seed myself, maybe it will help extend the mid game potential of this deck. Seems like it would be slow to me but I am really struggling if I lose board control vs mid-control decks.
Quote from PlayerKent»
Yup!
Shaman are only going to get tougher with their Naxx class card coming soon. ugh.
Loatheb is that dude though. We are going to be besties.
Dreadful14 - What about losing 1 Mark of the Wild for 1 Poison Seeds instead of dropping in a BGH.
You're pretty much guaranteed to hit Handlock, I think, but I think Poison Seeds is actually better in the matchup than BGH. Especially if you can play it on a turn where they've dropped two or three of their giants. It just completely wrecks them, and you have other cards in your deck that allow you to buff up your treants and/or have a larger field because your guys drop their own little guys.
PlayerKent - I really like your use of Soul of the Forest in the deck too. Man... need bigger decks (that's what she said) cause there are too many cards that I want to have in there.
Soul of the Forest was in my Murloc Druid and with Nerubian Egg(I.e) can be even better!
...Too young to die, too drunk to live...
Agreed. I'm really hoping that when Naxx is done their next thing will be working on putting in some other ways to play. Multiplayer, higher life and deck size, etc. I wouldn't even ask them to balance for those formats, just that they be there.
I don't feel like BGH is very useful against aggro either, though. Two health makes him really squishy, and if you have the deck to support it, which I think these are, Poison Seeds can leave you with a much stronger field than the other deck. BGH still has a lot of merit, I just don't think it's any better against aggro than our new toy.
I agree. There are plenty of opportunities to use the seeds, even in the worst matchups. Sure, there are times when you'd rather have other plays, but that's also true for BGH. Seeds is almost never completely dead because you can always use it to activate your own deathrattles and because many aggro decks still run things that can be shrunken (Doomguard, Nerubian, Dark Iron Dwarf). Although it can be an issue against rush Paladin and Shaman. I've just begun testing it, but so far I am happily playing it over BGH. There just weren't enough BGH targets for me to feel good about it in my build, so I dropped him a while back when people stopped putting Ragnaros into every deck.
Brawl wrecks me 100% of the time.
I was skeptical about seeds as well. I've been running 1 copy to test it out. Still not sold on it but there have been situations where I've been happy to have it. I've used it to break down handlock taunt walls and rag on an empty board....time will tell.
I haven't played it against a Paladin yet, but I will concede that Poison Seeds feels absolutely terrible against Shaman. On the other hand I haven't found much that feels good in that matchup.
MrKCvZ, I actually looked through your Silence This deck, and I find it inspiring! LOL Hope you can constantly update that deck when more cards are released ;)
Thanks! But actually, there is a problem with that... From 1st to 17-18th August I'll be away from home on a camping trip, so I won't be able to enter the new wings and update the decklist. I'm sorry but holidays are holidays :)
https://soundcloud.com/zenkreyofficial/danny-darko-hurricane-zenkrey-remix
I've found Poison Seeds useful in the mirror match when the Druid is running Big Taunts. There's nothing more satisfying than watching their Ancient of War become a treant. Yes, they get to attack with it first, but it's usually their one or two treants vs. my three/four treants + other deathrattle minions.