Malygos and Mecha'thun decks will still be functional, but they'll both be losing a LOT of strong cards that really help keep you alive for your mega death combos.
Spiteful's going to die.
Hadronox and Togwaggle are out.
And of course you wouldn't think about running Odd Druid ever before, right? What's the point? Cut UI, Branching Paths, Spreading Plague, and Wrath just for a hero power Malfurion is going to replace, anyway? That's insane, right?
Well, Malfurion, Branching Paths, Spreading Plague, and UI are all rotating out. Suddenly an Odd Druid doesn't seem like so much of a sacrifice anymore. You're now ditching Wrath and Nourish, but Druid still has good card draw options in Ferocious Howl and possibly Wild Growth. Maybe you put in an Acolyte or two if that isn't enough. The point is, the hero power is suddenly a lot more alluring- especially in a world where Malfurion the Pestilant doesn't exist.
I'm not saying Odd Druid will be a tier 1 deck or even viable in a post-rotation world, but I do think this is an archetype to keep an eye on. When you look at everything that's leaving standard very soon now, maybe, just maybe, it's finally Gloom Stag's time to shine with all this other stuff going out of style. And the upgraded Druid Hero Power actually is very powerful- it's just that nobody cares right now. Because Branching Paths and Spreading Plague are a 2 of in every single Druid list, and more of them run UI than not.
And yes, for all we know they'll just print some more even Druid or neutral cards next expansion that are too good not to run and leave Odd Druid as an afterthought once more. But we can't really have a discussion about what MIGHT be printed, can we? All we can really do right now is focus on what we KNOW is going to happen, the stuff rotating out. And dammit, I for one gotta do SOMETHING to amuse myself in this time period, so I've been trying to get a better visual on what decks will be like without cards from the past three sets, and Odd Druid really caught my eye as a standout that actually looks very enticing now.
So, don't count out the Gloomy Stag just yet, is all I'm trying to say here. Maybe, just maybe it'll work out.
Or maybe Druids will just resort to Whispering Woods, Soul of the Forest, Savage Roar, and start winning games like that again. Who knows.
I do think that odd druid can be good, but I disagree that gloom stag is that good. It really depends on the next set I think. Token odd druid could definitely be a thing I think.
A 5 mana 4/8 taunt is absolutely very good. It's even better in a world where Odd Paladins are running all over the place and you really need a strong taunt card to block their gigantic boards of doom. Gloom Stag has always been a very powerful card when the effect can activate. The issue is, it never does.
Again, the problem is, nobody's playing Odd Druid, not that the benefits that come from it are weak. Because the even cost cards I mentioned are just too good to cut.
I also did neglect to mention that you also can't play Swipe, but Starfire seems to fill in that gap more nicely, and slightly more flexibly.
The reason you would try Odd Druid is because there is literally no other thing remaining in the class that's worth trying out and the other classes lose just enough that you MIGHT stand a chance with it, but not likely.
You wanna play with Treants? Most of the cards are very slow, you have no ramp and no good draw.
You wanna play with big beasts and utilize Stampeding Roar and Predatory Instincts and all that stuff? No ramp, no board clears, not much removal... good luck lasting that long.
You wanna play some combo deck with Flobbidinous Floop and Dreampetal Florist and such? You have not much armor, no good draw, no ramp... you know what, you get it by now.
I don't think Odd Druid is going to be a good deck, but if you want to play Druid at all, you are running out of options.
Eh... I'm not completely sold on the Gonk yet. Granted, I MIGHT be if this Odd Druid build can find another way to get a decent attack score besides... you know, Claw. And it's also a great way to clear out all those pesky boards that Odd Paladin builds, and that's even better when you look at how much stuff Odd Paladin loses- it's still going to be a great deck, but it's definitely going to slow down. And Odd Druid potentially slows them down even more by starfalling and gonking their boards and putting up a nice juicy Gloom Stag on those those pesky boards that manage to live.
But I will say that Spirit of the Raptor is a really nice card draw engine, even at the base. Even if the Gonk gets no support, I would look into that.
The reason you would try Odd Druid is because there is literally no other thing remaining in the class that's worth trying out and the other classes lose just enough that you MIGHT stand a chance with it, but not likely.
You wanna play with Treants? Most of the cards are very slow, you have no ramp and no good draw.
You wanna play with big beasts and utilize Stampeding Roar and Predatory Instincts and all that stuff? No ramp, no board clears, not much removal... good luck lasting that long.
You wanna play some combo deck with Flobbidinous Floop and Dreampetal Florist and such? You have not much armor, no good draw, no ramp... you know what, you get it by now.
I don't think Odd Druid is going to be a good deck, but if you want to play Druid at all, you are running out of options.
Hey, sometimes it's just like that. You start trying something out because everything else looks so bad, which I already admitted is more or less the philosophy here.
And sometimes it's better than you think it is, and sometimes it's not. A lot of stuff is getting taken down a peg whereas the Odd Druid isn't, so, well... worth a shot, right? What's the worst that could happen, the deck just gets labelled unviable... again?
I have a gut feeling Druid is going to get some strong early/mid game cards in the next expansion. They were balanced around wild growth and the nerf gutted their tempo.
Long story short I think that some strong odd cards to help Druid click better are definitely a possibility!
Eh... I'm not completely sold on the Gonk yet. Granted, I MIGHT be if this Odd Druid build can find another way to get a decent attack score besides... you know, Claw. And it's also a great way to clear out all those pesky boards that Odd Paladin builds, and that's even better when you look at how much stuff Odd Paladin loses- it's still going to be a great deck, but it's definitely going to slow down. And Odd Druid potentially slows them down even more by starfalling and gonking their boards and putting up a nice juicy Gloom Stag on those those pesky boards that manage to live.
But I will say that Spirit of the Raptor is a really nice card draw engine, even at the base. Even if the Gonk gets no support, I would look into that.
I'm of the opinion nuking Baku and Genn right NOW would be a bit too knee-jerky and it would be best to see how they function after the rotation where decks are going to start looking very different before getting out the nerfbat.
But that's just what one man makes of all of this, and I don't really want this to turn into another Baku the Meme-eater topic.
Odd Druid isn't THAT bad, it's just that Odd Rogue is more viable as an aggressive deck. It's true though that Spirit of the Raptor literally begs you for making use of the upgraded hero power. I think they'll have to add buffs similar to Gnash (which is going to rotate out) if the archetype should have a future other than meme status. Here is my current take on it:
### Feral Frenzy # Class: Druid # Format: Standard # Year of the Raven # # 2x (1) Claw # 1x (1) Crystallizer # 2x (1) Fire Fly # 2x (1) Lesser Jasper Spellstone # 2x (1) Spirit of the Raptor # 2x (3) Gnash # 1x (3) Greedy Sprite # 2x (3) Hench-Clan Thug # 2x (3) Savage Roar # 2x (3) Tar Creeper # 2x (3) Vicious Fledgling # 1x (3) Void Ripper # 1x (5) Cobalt Scalebane # 2x (5) Druid of the Claw # 2x (5) Fungalmancer # 1x (5) Gloom Stag # 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins # 1x (5) Snapjaw Shellfighter # 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater # AAECAZICCK8EyssC+eYC/eoC2OwCnvgC+v4ChYoDC7QF5gWaCJ/CAuvCAsrDAvzNApjSAtHhAqbvApiGAwA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone # Generated by HDT - https://hsreplay.net
I honestly just don't think the upgraded hero power is worth the sacrifice in Druid. Rogue was so strong because the dagger had 2 charges (and can be buffed across multiple charges). You could make the dagger on one turn and hold one or both charges until it was necessary to attack something, while still having full use of your mana on the turns you attack. As Druid you have to pay 2 mana every time you want to attack, on the turns you want to attack and if you buff your attack one turn, you lose that buff on the following turn. For these reasons, +2 health each time the hero power is cast isn't making enough of a difference for me to make it worth cutting even cost cards for (unless no even cards are really worth playing).
I believe what makes the upgraded hero power weak compared to others is that it is split over 2 stats. We've seen that +4 armour is a very strong hero power, and in theory +4 attack would be really good as well (4 attack is effectively what Rogue gets, but it split over 2 turns), but +2/+2 doesn't have enough impact as either a board control tool or a stalling tool to warrant the restriction of Baku.
The Druid upgraded hero power is most comparable to Mage, which can't be controlled by a Taunt minion, and can finish off a high attack minion without taking a load of damage, proc your own Voodoo Dolls etc. Additionally comparing the two classes, Odd Mage having on-curve access to Jan'Alai is a strong case to run Baku in an otherwise sub optimal class for odd decks. Your reward for playing Odd Druid - Gloom Stag - is certainly not on the same level.
I was playing Odd Druid for awhile because of all the nerfs to Druid. Without good ramp cards and good removal cards, they are easily out classed and overwhelmed by aggro and mid range decks.
Druid only has OTK decks left in their play style. Token or Aggro builds are ok, but are very high roll decks and easily get outclassed by Odd Paladin decks.
It's not bad, and I added certain cards to give me the ability to copy Gonk, so I have some sort of end game. Faceless Manipulator and Dreampetal Florist help lower the cost of the combo, but that's not the focus of the deck. Against control decks it gives you a way to end the game without having some of the more powerful cards Druid normally has.
This does lose against OTK decks unless you can assemble your Gonk combo and your opponent plays into it.
I do play the Death Knight because getting an upgrade to your hero power is important in the late game. And +3 attack is better than +2 of course.
I hope there is more support for this because Druid needs some help and I dont want the OTK push anymore. Let's give Druid something unique, but not oppressive.
" honestly just don't think the upgraded hero power is worth the sacrifice in Druid. "
But that's the thing- post-rotation, there really isn't much of a sacrifice involved anymore. Branching Paths is in, UI is in, Spreading Plague is in. Of course Odd Druid isn't worth the sacrifice right NOW when those cards exist.
But in a month and a week or so, they won't be. Now all you cut is Swipe and Wrath, and Spirit of the Raptor is a fantastic replacement for Wrath, and Starfall certainly isn't a terrible substitute for Swipe.
"I hope there is more support for this because Druid needs some help and I dont want the OTK push anymore. Let's give Druid something unique, but not oppressive."
I'm not even sure how much support the archetype actually needs printed, if I'm honest. The knobs going way back on everything else is obviously a big help to Druid in and of itself, although losing their Jasper Spellstone is a huge loss, and you'll only have Naturalize now.
Still, Odd Mage, which was mentioned here- you naturalize their Ragnaros, and that's their biggest win condition gone for 1 mana, and they don't have a Jaina to close out lategame on you anymore. You stack armor with Ferocious Howl and your new nifty hero power, and maybe you can actually weather the storm on the aggro variant of Odd, since the control variant is probably dead now.
Hunter is huge. No more spellstone, no more Deathstalker Rexxar. No more millions of 5/5s with Deathrattles and instant death with charged devilsaurs and Cubes. I'm really liking Odd Druid's chances against most hunters without all these toys at their disposal.
Of course, for all I know, they'll print some ridiculous new win conditions for Hunter or more even cards that are too good to not put in your druid decks like UI, like Spreading Plague, like Branching Paths, but for now, this all actually seems to be reasonable... on paper, anyway. So all I can really do is stick to the mentality that it might actually work out until Blizzard cruelly crushes my hopes and dreams.
I think the deck has a fair chance after rotation. With the DKs leaving and if the new set has a lot of good beasts, I could see odd beast druid becoming a thing.
I think the deck has a fair chance after rotation. With the DKs leaving and if the new set has a lot of good beasts, I could see odd beast druid becoming a thing.
I think the deck has a fair chance after rotation. With the DKs leaving and if the new set has a lot of good beasts, I could see odd beast druid becoming a thing.
What's the point of the Elekk?
3 Mana 3/4 with Beast. Works well with beastmaster
I played around with one where gonk is the only beast and you resurrect him with the cards which resurrects a random beast .The deck is not great, but post rotation will probably work. Having 2 att and 2 armor is very good, you gain a ton of survivability.
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Think about it.
Malygos and Mecha'thun decks will still be functional, but they'll both be losing a LOT of strong cards that really help keep you alive for your mega death combos.
Spiteful's going to die.
Hadronox and Togwaggle are out.
And of course you wouldn't think about running Odd Druid ever before, right? What's the point? Cut UI, Branching Paths, Spreading Plague, and Wrath just for a hero power Malfurion is going to replace, anyway? That's insane, right?
Well, Malfurion, Branching Paths, Spreading Plague, and UI are all rotating out. Suddenly an Odd Druid doesn't seem like so much of a sacrifice anymore. You're now ditching Wrath and Nourish, but Druid still has good card draw options in Ferocious Howl and possibly Wild Growth. Maybe you put in an Acolyte or two if that isn't enough. The point is, the hero power is suddenly a lot more alluring- especially in a world where Malfurion the Pestilant doesn't exist.
I'm not saying Odd Druid will be a tier 1 deck or even viable in a post-rotation world, but I do think this is an archetype to keep an eye on. When you look at everything that's leaving standard very soon now, maybe, just maybe, it's finally Gloom Stag's time to shine with all this other stuff going out of style. And the upgraded Druid Hero Power actually is very powerful- it's just that nobody cares right now. Because Branching Paths and Spreading Plague are a 2 of in every single Druid list, and more of them run UI than not.
And yes, for all we know they'll just print some more even Druid or neutral cards next expansion that are too good not to run and leave Odd Druid as an afterthought once more. But we can't really have a discussion about what MIGHT be printed, can we? All we can really do right now is focus on what we KNOW is going to happen, the stuff rotating out. And dammit, I for one gotta do SOMETHING to amuse myself in this time period, so I've been trying to get a better visual on what decks will be like without cards from the past three sets, and Odd Druid really caught my eye as a standout that actually looks very enticing now.
So, don't count out the Gloomy Stag just yet, is all I'm trying to say here. Maybe, just maybe it'll work out.
Or maybe Druids will just resort to Whispering Woods, Soul of the Forest, Savage Roar, and start winning games like that again. Who knows.
I do think that odd druid can be good, but I disagree that gloom stag is that good. It really depends on the next set I think. Token odd druid could definitely be a thing I think.
Don't forget about Gonk.
A 5 mana 4/8 taunt is absolutely very good. It's even better in a world where Odd Paladins are running all over the place and you really need a strong taunt card to block their gigantic boards of doom. Gloom Stag has always been a very powerful card when the effect can activate. The issue is, it never does.
Again, the problem is, nobody's playing Odd Druid, not that the benefits that come from it are weak. Because the even cost cards I mentioned are just too good to cut.
I also did neglect to mention that you also can't play Swipe, but Starfire seems to fill in that gap more nicely, and slightly more flexibly.
The reason you would try Odd Druid is because there is literally no other thing remaining in the class that's worth trying out and the other classes lose just enough that you MIGHT stand a chance with it, but not likely.
You wanna play with Treants? Most of the cards are very slow, you have no ramp and no good draw.
You wanna play with big beasts and utilize Stampeding Roar and Predatory Instincts and all that stuff? No ramp, no board clears, not much removal... good luck lasting that long.
You wanna play some combo deck with Flobbidinous Floop and Dreampetal Florist and such? You have not much armor, no good draw, no ramp... you know what, you get it by now.
I don't think Odd Druid is going to be a good deck, but if you want to play Druid at all, you are running out of options.
Eh... I'm not completely sold on the Gonk yet. Granted, I MIGHT be if this Odd Druid build can find another way to get a decent attack score besides... you know, Claw. And it's also a great way to clear out all those pesky boards that Odd Paladin builds, and that's even better when you look at how much stuff Odd Paladin loses- it's still going to be a great deck, but it's definitely going to slow down. And Odd Druid potentially slows them down even more by starfalling and gonking their boards and putting up a nice juicy Gloom Stag on those those pesky boards that manage to live.
But I will say that Spirit of the Raptor is a really nice card draw engine, even at the base. Even if the Gonk gets no support, I would look into that.
Hey, sometimes it's just like that. You start trying something out because everything else looks so bad, which I already admitted is more or less the philosophy here.
And sometimes it's better than you think it is, and sometimes it's not. A lot of stuff is getting taken down a peg whereas the Odd Druid isn't, so, well... worth a shot, right? What's the worst that could happen, the deck just gets labelled unviable... again?
I have a gut feeling Druid is going to get some strong early/mid game cards in the next expansion. They were balanced around wild growth and the nerf gutted their tempo.
Long story short I think that some strong odd cards to help Druid click better are definitely a possibility!
That's assuming they won't nuke Genn and Baku out of the game before rotation, which certainly possible given how much hate those two cards get.
Gonk is the chosen one.
I'm of the opinion nuking Baku and Genn right NOW would be a bit too knee-jerky and it would be best to see how they function after the rotation where decks are going to start looking very different before getting out the nerfbat.
But that's just what one man makes of all of this, and I don't really want this to turn into another Baku the Meme-eater topic.
Odd Druid isn't THAT bad, it's just that Odd Rogue is more viable as an aggressive deck. It's true though that Spirit of the Raptor literally begs you for making use of the upgraded hero power. I think they'll have to add buffs similar to Gnash (which is going to rotate out) if the archetype should have a future other than meme status. Here is my current take on it:
### Feral Frenzy
# Class: Druid
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (1) Claw
# 1x (1) Crystallizer
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 2x (1) Lesser Jasper Spellstone
# 2x (1) Spirit of the Raptor
# 2x (3) Gnash
# 1x (3) Greedy Sprite
# 2x (3) Hench-Clan Thug
# 2x (3) Savage Roar
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (3) Vicious Fledgling
# 1x (3) Void Ripper
# 1x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (5) Druid of the Claw
# 2x (5) Fungalmancer
# 1x (5) Gloom Stag
# 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
# 1x (5) Snapjaw Shellfighter
# 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
#
AAECAZICCK8EyssC+eYC/eoC2OwCnvgC+v4ChYoDC7QF5gWaCJ/CAuvCAsrDAvzNApjSAtHhAqbvApiGAwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
# Generated by HDT - https://hsreplay.net
I honestly just don't think the upgraded hero power is worth the sacrifice in Druid. Rogue was so strong because the dagger had 2 charges (and can be buffed across multiple charges). You could make the dagger on one turn and hold one or both charges until it was necessary to attack something, while still having full use of your mana on the turns you attack. As Druid you have to pay 2 mana every time you want to attack, on the turns you want to attack and if you buff your attack one turn, you lose that buff on the following turn. For these reasons, +2 health each time the hero power is cast isn't making enough of a difference for me to make it worth cutting even cost cards for (unless no even cards are really worth playing).
I believe what makes the upgraded hero power weak compared to others is that it is split over 2 stats. We've seen that +4 armour is a very strong hero power, and in theory +4 attack would be really good as well (4 attack is effectively what Rogue gets, but it split over 2 turns), but +2/+2 doesn't have enough impact as either a board control tool or a stalling tool to warrant the restriction of Baku.
The Druid upgraded hero power is most comparable to Mage, which can't be controlled by a Taunt minion, and can finish off a high attack minion without taking a load of damage, proc your own Voodoo Dolls etc. Additionally comparing the two classes, Odd Mage having on-curve access to Jan'Alai is a strong case to run Baku in an otherwise sub optimal class for odd decks. Your reward for playing Odd Druid - Gloom Stag - is certainly not on the same level.
I was playing Odd Druid for awhile because of all the nerfs to Druid. Without good ramp cards and good removal cards, they are easily out classed and overwhelmed by aggro and mid range decks.
Druid only has OTK decks left in their play style. Token or Aggro builds are ok, but are very high roll decks and easily get outclassed by Odd Paladin decks.
It's not bad, and I added certain cards to give me the ability to copy Gonk, so I have some sort of end game. Faceless Manipulator and Dreampetal Florist help lower the cost of the combo, but that's not the focus of the deck. Against control decks it gives you a way to end the game without having some of the more powerful cards Druid normally has.
This does lose against OTK decks unless you can assemble your Gonk combo and your opponent plays into it.
I do play the Death Knight because getting an upgrade to your hero power is important in the late game. And +3 attack is better than +2 of course.
I hope there is more support for this because Druid needs some help and I dont want the OTK push anymore. Let's give Druid something unique, but not oppressive.
" honestly just don't think the upgraded hero power is worth the sacrifice in Druid. "
But that's the thing- post-rotation, there really isn't much of a sacrifice involved anymore. Branching Paths is in, UI is in, Spreading Plague is in. Of course Odd Druid isn't worth the sacrifice right NOW when those cards exist.
But in a month and a week or so, they won't be. Now all you cut is Swipe and Wrath, and Spirit of the Raptor is a fantastic replacement for Wrath, and Starfall certainly isn't a terrible substitute for Swipe.
"I hope there is more support for this because Druid needs some help and I dont want the OTK push anymore. Let's give Druid something unique, but not oppressive."
I'm not even sure how much support the archetype actually needs printed, if I'm honest. The knobs going way back on everything else is obviously a big help to Druid in and of itself, although losing their Jasper Spellstone is a huge loss, and you'll only have Naturalize now.
Still, Odd Mage, which was mentioned here- you naturalize their Ragnaros, and that's their biggest win condition gone for 1 mana, and they don't have a Jaina to close out lategame on you anymore. You stack armor with Ferocious Howl and your new nifty hero power, and maybe you can actually weather the storm on the aggro variant of Odd, since the control variant is probably dead now.
Hunter is huge. No more spellstone, no more Deathstalker Rexxar. No more millions of 5/5s with Deathrattles and instant death with charged devilsaurs and Cubes. I'm really liking Odd Druid's chances against most hunters without all these toys at their disposal.
Of course, for all I know, they'll print some ridiculous new win conditions for Hunter or more even cards that are too good to not put in your druid decks like UI, like Spreading Plague, like Branching Paths, but for now, this all actually seems to be reasonable... on paper, anyway. So all I can really do is stick to the mentality that it might actually work out until Blizzard cruelly crushes my hopes and dreams.
I was toying around with a theorycraft of one.
What's the point of the Elekk?
It's probably just the 3 mana 3/4 statline and the Beast tag, which works with the Beastmaster.
3 Mana 3/4 with Beast. Works well with beastmaster
I played around with one where gonk is the only beast and you resurrect him with the cards which resurrects a random beast .The deck is not great, but post rotation will probably work. Having 2 att and 2 armor is very good, you gain a ton of survivability.