Yup I am there with you man. I am at Rank 5 just trying to play some fun decks but I usually face a hunter of some sort, which wipe the floor with me lol
For people who have been playing for awhile - is it really true that things are worse in this meta compared to how things have always been on the ladder? I stopped playing ladder many meta-moons ago because of the same reasons I see on these threads - got boring playing against the same handful of optimized netdecks in the ranks below Legend. Is it the case that there are even fewer decks being played now, or has the issue just been magnified because there are 3 or 4 decks within the same class (Hunter) so it's more obvious these days? Or is there something special about the make-up of these Hunter decks that is worse than before?
Personally, I banged my head against the wall for awhile trying to fulfill two goals - reaching legend and having "fun" (which I didn't define in terms of winrate). But over time I came to accept that, at least for my skill level/card collection, these two were often mutually exclusive. It was better for my sanity to have an optimized mindset when playing ladder (so the predictability of decks was actually a good thing in terms of deciding on which techs to include) and then striving for fun in casual, wild, tavern brawls (like last week's!), the occassional arena run. and all the solo content (definitely recommend replaying the old adventures with all the new cards). Over time I've played less and less ladder and nowadays just do the 5 monthly wins.
For people who have been playing for awhile - is it really true that things are worse in this meta compared to how things have always been on the ladder? I stopped playing ladder many meta-moons ago because of the same reasons I see on these threads - got boring playing against the same handful of optimized netdecks in the ranks below Legend. Is it the case that there are even fewer decks being played now, or has the issue just been magnified because there are 3 or 4 decks within the same class (Hunter) so it's more obvious these days? Or is there something special about the make-up of these Hunter decks that is worse than before?
Personally, I banged my head against the wall for awhile trying to fulfill two goals - reaching legend and having "fun" (which I didn't define in terms of winrate). But over time I came to accept that, at least for my skill level/card collection, these two were often mutually exclusive. It was better for my sanity to have an optimized mindset when playing ladder (so the predictability of decks was actually a good thing in terms of deciding on which techs to include) and then striving for fun in casual, wild, tavern brawls (like last week's!), the occassional arena run. and all the solo content (definitely recommend replaying the old adventures with all the new cards). Over time I've played less and less ladder and nowadays just do the 5 monthly wins.
To answer your initial question: No, that's just a bunch of people looking through rose tinted glasses because 'everything was better back then'.
Every meta has its ups and downs. It's nothing new really.
Right now i don´t have a problem meeting a lot of hunters on the ladder because i play a control priest right now and haven't lost to a single hunter this season.
I personaly do not care what my opponent plays - hell there could be 30 hunters in a row and i would not be mad - first off it´s just a game and second, as i said before i play a control priest right now and it´s doing pretty good against hunters :)
Either you are the luckiest rng person on the planet or this is a lot of BS lol.
Also one good way to avoid hunters is to play a deck that actually counters them. I tried that and got 1 hunter in 20 games, only various OTK decks that obviously beat what i queued. A that point it makes sense to queue something like odd rogue to counter them, which in turns leads to 7 games in a row against hunter.
Yup I am there with you man. I am at Rank 5 just trying to play some fun decks but I usually face a hunter of some sort, which wipe the floor with me lol
well thats your fault for playing none-meta "fun" decks on rank 5 ladder.
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Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I decided to ladder with control priest this season as I did the mid range thing last season, and it seemed to have a good track record against hunter. It's also a control deck that seems to actively try and end the game. I do not see many hunters, and when I do they're seldom spell hunter, which is theoretically the most common hunter deck at my rank, and my best matchup. So that's life for you.
Hunter, particularly Midrange and Hybrid builds just feel really good to play. Tons of options, great curve, late game power. You always feel like you have a decent play for most scenarios and other decks feel pretty 1-dimensional by comparison - you're either trying to aggro your opponent down as fast as possible or stall til your late game win conditions. Hunter builds have the flexibility to rush down a slow opponent or play a longer control/value game. I'd prefer to see other classes catch up rather than nerfs to Hunter because decks with a lot of options tend to require more skill (although unfortunately at the moment Hunter is so far ahead of the curve with this that the only skill testing matchup is the mirror).
Hunter, particularly Midrange and Hybrid builds just feel really good to play. Tons of options, great curve, late game power. You always feel like you have a decent play for most scenarios and other decks feel pretty 1-dimensional by comparison
Hunter, particularly Midrange and Hybrid builds just feel really good to play. Tons of options, great curve, late game power. You always feel like you have a decent play for most scenarios and other decks feel pretty 1-dimensional by comparison
Hunter, particularly Midrange and Hybrid builds just feel really good to play. Tons of options, great curve, late game power. You always feel like you have a decent play for most scenarios and other decks feel pretty 1-dimensional by comparison
XD
Great content. Discuss.
Thanks. I am pretty good at that. Appreciate the support!
Interesting. I felt the point was rather clear. You made a rather unlikely claim that Hunter was a diverse and varied class (assuming this is what you meant by "tons of options") - which is amusing, simply because it is widely considered to be one of the most 1-dimensional classes within the game. It is one of (if not the only) class that focuses purely on beat-down style of play and little else. Whether through flooded aggro or midrange power play. Even Recruit Hunter with it's taunting wolves still requires giant charge minions for its finishing strategy. It doesn't even fit the control archetype. Not to mention that it is the only class with a Hero Power completely fixated on aggro style of play.
This all alludes to the expression of slight bemusement at the idea that Hunter could be considered any more multi-dimensional than any other class. I've yet to see a viable Hunter Control or Hunter OTK deck (that isn't a pure meme).
Love people throwing garbage anecdotal statistics ("It's like 90% of the ladder, dude") These threads only prove themselves wrong - if it were so ubiquitous, there would be an easy and obvious counter, like the Reno vs The Pirates meta. Either you people are terrible at playing against hunter, or you the noise about hunter dominating the ladder is just that, noise.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I can't understand why people keep complaining about classes. There will always be a couple of decks that are Tier 1. Due to this people will try to create these decks in order to climb up the ladder faster. And then other people will create counter decks changing the meta. And then there will be a patch nerfing some cards making other Tier 1 decks that players will start making etc. etc.
You will always have this condition. This is how this game works. Before last huge nerf patch people talked about how OP Odd Paladins and Kingsbane rogue was. They got nerfed and now people whine about Hunters.
Interesting. I felt the point was rather clear. You made a rather unlikely claim that Hunter was a diverse and varied class (assuming this is what you meant by "tons of options") - which is amusing, simply because it is widely considered to be one of the most 1-dimensional classes within the game. It is one of (if not the only) class that focuses purely on beat-down style of play and little else. Whether through flooded aggro or midrange power play. Even Recruit Hunter with it's taunting wolves still requires giant charge minions for its finishing strategy. It doesn't even fit the control archetype. Not to mention that it is the only class with a Hero Power completely fixated on aggro style of play.
This all alludes to the expression of slight bemusement at the idea that Hunter could be considered any more multi-dimensional than any other class. I've yet to see a viable Hunter Control or Hunter OTK deck (that isn't a pure meme).
That's more like what I was looking for. However I am looking at specifically the Midrange and Hybrid Hunter archetypes as diverse decks in their own right, not Hunter as a whole (and comparing to other archetypes as oppose to classes as a whole, for example, each class has a few different decks with their own game plans, but each individual deck only has one game plan itself). I would agree that Spell Hunter and Deathrattle Hunter are quite one dimensional in their approach but I am not concerned with those particular archetypes (and they are also not the ones that are massively populating the ladder beyond rank 1).
What I have been experiencing with these two more recent Hunter builds is the ability to adapt your strategy to fit the matchup or draw order. You have a nice early curve to go aggressive with cost efficient minions. If you can't win the board early on, you have a midgame strategy of either secrets/spellstones or access to some combos with Springpaw/Razormaw/Hyena/Timber Wolf, you've got late game options of Rexxar for the value game and Zul'Jin to try and tempo the opponent out, or burst with a Tundra Rhino and Spellstone. There are even some nice control options in Hunter's Mark/Candleshot and Flanking Strike.
Yes you ultimately want to win by attacking your opponent until their life reaches 0 (Hearthstone) but you have so many different approaches to reaching that goal depending on your draw and your opponent's strategy.
It is refreshing to play something that can adapt to so many situations without sacrificing consistency that isn't simply "win the board and smash the opponent's head in" or "stall for your late game win condition or fatigue." I'm not suggesting every deck is boring or has no plan B, I'm saying I can really see the appeal in these Hunter builds and think that other archetypes should be brought up to par (no problem with some decks being stronger in early and others stronger in late, but the idea of having SOME kind of proactive game plan in all stages of the game is a great direction for Hearthstone. To me it seems that the decks are not popular because they are broken (~50% win rates across the board generally) but because they are engaging and always have something that feels decent to do.
Also re: the hero power, putting your opponent on a clock isn't necessarily synonymous with an aggro play style. Control Priest clocks you in a much more "aggressive" fashion and is a control deck (albeit a proactive one) by nature.
I crafted rexxar before it was good and also crafted zuljin day 1 because it is the only playable hero of the expansion. Once you have those two legendaries, you might swell craft the rest of one of the four tier 1 hunter decks. Kathrena and Halazzi are also pretty fun cards that are interesting to play around with.
People on hearthpwn keep assuming that hunters are played so much because they are broken, but I really think hunter decks are so prevalent because they are relatively cheap and a lot of people were going to craft the expensive hunter cards regardless of power level. Other tier one decks require a lot of epics that feel less exciting to craft or are just much more expensive overall.
How is odd rogue much more expensive than spell hunter or secret hunter? They have almost the same amount of legendaries(there are viable odd rogue decks with 2 legendaries actually). Evenlock can also have 3 legendaries and work fine(like spell hunter has 3 nowadays). However these decks are not seeing that much of a play right now.(I doubt that their play-rates combined is equal to only spell hunter). Only the beast hunter version is cheap. (Deathrattle is a very expensive deck).
What I want to point here is that people are playing hunter , not because it's broken, but because people are netdecking, they are following the meta like "sheeps" and they pay too much attention to twitch pro streamers that , each and every one, pointing out that Hunter is the best class to reach legend.
Odd rogue is 680 dust more than spell hunter and the same cost as secret hunter. It's just a fact that hunter has less expensive decks which leads to more users of said decks. Not everyone has thousands of dust.
I would much rather a hunter meta than a kingsbane meta. But yes, this community is full of sheep. When druid was nerfed almost everyone stopped playing it and waited for the streamers to "create" a viable deck for druid. It's kinda sad, but people are and always will be sheep.
Interesting. I felt the point was rather clear. You made a rather unlikely claim that Hunter was a diverse and varied class (assuming this is what you meant by "tons of options") - which is amusing, simply because it is widely considered to be one of the most 1-dimensional classes within the game. It is one of (if not the only) class that focuses purely on beat-down style of play and little else. Whether through flooded aggro or midrange power play. Even Recruit Hunter with it's taunting wolves still requires giant charge minions for its finishing strategy. It doesn't even fit the control archetype. Not to mention that it is the only class with a Hero Power completely fixated on aggro style of play.
This all alludes to the expression of slight bemusement at the idea that Hunter could be considered any more multi-dimensional than any other class. I've yet to see a viable Hunter Control or Hunter OTK deck (that isn't a pure meme).
That's more like what I was looking for. However I am looking at specifically the Midrange and Hybrid Hunter archetypes as diverse decks in their own right, not Hunter as a whole (and comparing to other archetypes as oppose to classes as a whole, for example, each class has a few different decks with their own game plans, but each individual deck only has one game plan itself). I would agree that Spell Hunter and Deathrattle Hunter are quite one dimensional in their approach but I am not concerned with those particular archetypes (and they are also not the ones that are massively populating the ladder beyond rank 1).
What I have been experiencing with these two more recent Hunter builds is the ability to adapt your strategy to fit the matchup or draw order. You have a nice early curve to go aggressive with cost efficient minions. If you can't win the board early on, you have a midgame strategy of either secrets/spellstones or access to some combos with Springpaw/Razormaw/Hyena/Timber Wolf, you've got late game options of Rexxar for the value game and Zul'Jin to try and tempo the opponent out, or burst with a Tundra Rhino and Spellstone. There are even some nice control options in Hunter's Mark/Candleshot and Flanking Strike.
Yes you ultimately want to win by attacking your opponent until their life reaches 0 (Hearthstone) but you have so many different approaches to reaching that goal depending on your draw and your opponent's strategy.
It is refreshing to play something that can adapt to so many situations without sacrificing consistency that isn't simply "win the board and smash the opponent's head in" or "stall for your late game win condition or fatigue." I'm not suggesting every deck is boring or has no plan B, I'm saying I can really see the appeal in these Hunter builds and think that other archetypes should be brought up to par (no problem with some decks being stronger in early and others stronger in late, but the idea of having SOME kind of proactive game plan in all stages of the game is a great direction for Hearthstone. To me it seems that the decks are not popular because they are broken (~50% win rates across the board generally) but because they are engaging and always have something that feels decent to do.
Also re: the hero power, putting your opponent on a clock isn't necessarily synonymous with an aggro play style. Control Priest clocks you in a much more "aggressive" fashion and is a control deck (albeit a proactive one) by nature.
I'm not sure what you class as Hybrid Hunter (as this doesn't really give much of a clue as to what the deck is). Similarly with Midrange in fairness. But at rank 5 -> Legend, all I am seeing from Hunter is Spell Hunter, Beast Hunter (Master's Call variant) and occasionally Deathrattle Hunter.
But considering other archetypes that have had (if brief) some affect on the meta at times: - Quest Hunter - Odd Hunter - Tempo Hunter (Beasts and Secrets, along with the Bow and Spellstone)
These have all been heavily geared towards a singular and similar play format - trying to beat down the opponent / overwhelm him as quicly as possible.
I can't think of any decks that look specifically to stall to the late game or pull off a combo to beat the opponent / win. Though I am sure people have tried; I even came across someone trying to make a Hunter Mecathun deck once. It didn't go well though. :-)
That's not to say I wouldn't like to see something new and different for the class. I really, really would. There are a number of us who have been crying out for some good late game deck cards for the class. Though Call of the Wild is probably the best / only thing we've gotten in that regard so far and it's not amazing. There are a few "ok" late game cards available (technically) but nothing that I woudl say is competitively viable... yet...
Interesting. I felt the point was rather clear. You made a rather unlikely claim that Hunter was a diverse and varied class (assuming this is what you meant by "tons of options") - which is amusing, simply because it is widely considered to be one of the most 1-dimensional classes within the game. It is one of (if not the only) class that focuses purely on beat-down style of play and little else. Whether through flooded aggro or midrange power play. Even Recruit Hunter with it's taunting wolves still requires giant charge minions for its finishing strategy. It doesn't even fit the control archetype. Not to mention that it is the only class with a Hero Power completely fixated on aggro style of play.
This all alludes to the expression of slight bemusement at the idea that Hunter could be considered any more multi-dimensional than any other class. I've yet to see a viable Hunter Control or Hunter OTK deck (that isn't a pure meme).
"Widely considered one dimensional".- by WHO? Firebat has stated on stream that Hunter has become the most skill demanding class to play because of the DK Rexxar since very Zombeast created is a dynamic decision. Obviously you don't believe this. But the opinion of a World Class player is obviously higher than a whiny little child, so nobody gives a chit about your opinion.
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Yup I am there with you man. I am at Rank 5 just trying to play some fun decks but I usually face a hunter of some sort, which wipe the floor with me lol
For people who have been playing for awhile - is it really true that things are worse in this meta compared to how things have always been on the ladder? I stopped playing ladder many meta-moons ago because of the same reasons I see on these threads - got boring playing against the same handful of optimized netdecks in the ranks below Legend. Is it the case that there are even fewer decks being played now, or has the issue just been magnified because there are 3 or 4 decks within the same class (Hunter) so it's more obvious these days? Or is there something special about the make-up of these Hunter decks that is worse than before?
Personally, I banged my head against the wall for awhile trying to fulfill two goals - reaching legend and having "fun" (which I didn't define in terms of winrate). But over time I came to accept that, at least for my skill level/card collection, these two were often mutually exclusive. It was better for my sanity to have an optimized mindset when playing ladder (so the predictability of decks was actually a good thing in terms of deciding on which techs to include) and then striving for fun in casual, wild, tavern brawls (like last week's!), the occassional arena run. and all the solo content (definitely recommend replaying the old adventures with all the new cards). Over time I've played less and less ladder and nowadays just do the 5 monthly wins.
Praise Rang.
To answer your initial question: No, that's just a bunch of people looking through rose tinted glasses because 'everything was better back then'.
Every meta has its ups and downs. It's nothing new really.
Either you are the luckiest rng person on the planet or this is a lot of BS lol.
Also one good way to avoid hunters is to play a deck that actually counters them. I tried that and got 1 hunter in 20 games, only various OTK decks that obviously beat what i queued. A that point it makes sense to queue something like odd rogue to counter them, which in turns leads to 7 games in a row against hunter.
well thats your fault for playing none-meta "fun" decks on rank 5 ladder.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I decided to ladder with control priest this season as I did the mid range thing last season, and it seemed to have a good track record against hunter. It's also a control deck that seems to actively try and end the game. I do not see many hunters, and when I do they're seldom spell hunter, which is theoretically the most common hunter deck at my rank, and my best matchup. So that's life for you.
Hunter, particularly Midrange and Hybrid builds just feel really good to play. Tons of options, great curve, late game power. You always feel like you have a decent play for most scenarios and other decks feel pretty 1-dimensional by comparison - you're either trying to aggro your opponent down as fast as possible or stall til your late game win conditions. Hunter builds have the flexibility to rush down a slow opponent or play a longer control/value game. I'd prefer to see other classes catch up rather than nerfs to Hunter because decks with a lot of options tend to require more skill (although unfortunately at the moment Hunter is so far ahead of the curve with this that the only skill testing matchup is the mirror).
XD
Great content. Discuss.
Good joke. If you play a counterdeck to hunters you wont face any hunters again.
Thanks. I am pretty good at that.
Appreciate the support!
That's great, make a point though.
Interesting. I felt the point was rather clear.
You made a rather unlikely claim that Hunter was a diverse and varied class (assuming this is what you meant by "tons of options") - which is amusing, simply because it is widely considered to be one of the most 1-dimensional classes within the game.
It is one of (if not the only) class that focuses purely on beat-down style of play and little else. Whether through flooded aggro or midrange power play.
Even Recruit Hunter with it's taunting wolves still requires giant charge minions for its finishing strategy. It doesn't even fit the control archetype.
Not to mention that it is the only class with a Hero Power completely fixated on aggro style of play.
This all alludes to the expression of slight bemusement at the idea that Hunter could be considered any more multi-dimensional than any other class. I've yet to see a viable Hunter Control or Hunter OTK deck (that isn't a pure meme).
Love people throwing garbage anecdotal statistics ("It's like 90% of the ladder, dude") These threads only prove themselves wrong - if it were so ubiquitous, there would be an easy and obvious counter, like the Reno vs The Pirates meta. Either you people are terrible at playing against hunter, or you the noise about hunter dominating the ladder is just that, noise.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I can't understand why people keep complaining about classes. There will always be a couple of decks that are Tier 1. Due to this people will try to create these decks in order to climb up the ladder faster. And then other people will create counter decks changing the meta. And then there will be a patch nerfing some cards making other Tier 1 decks that players will start making etc. etc.
You will always have this condition. This is how this game works. Before last huge nerf patch people talked about how OP Odd Paladins and Kingsbane rogue was. They got nerfed and now people whine about Hunters.
Get on with it or find another game to play.
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
That's more like what I was looking for. However I am looking at specifically the Midrange and Hybrid Hunter archetypes as diverse decks in their own right, not Hunter as a whole (and comparing to other archetypes as oppose to classes as a whole, for example, each class has a few different decks with their own game plans, but each individual deck only has one game plan itself). I would agree that Spell Hunter and Deathrattle Hunter are quite one dimensional in their approach but I am not concerned with those particular archetypes (and they are also not the ones that are massively populating the ladder beyond rank 1).
What I have been experiencing with these two more recent Hunter builds is the ability to adapt your strategy to fit the matchup or draw order. You have a nice early curve to go aggressive with cost efficient minions. If you can't win the board early on, you have a midgame strategy of either secrets/spellstones or access to some combos with Springpaw/Razormaw/Hyena/Timber Wolf, you've got late game options of Rexxar for the value game and Zul'Jin to try and tempo the opponent out, or burst with a Tundra Rhino and Spellstone. There are even some nice control options in Hunter's Mark/Candleshot and Flanking Strike.
Yes you ultimately want to win by attacking your opponent until their life reaches 0 (Hearthstone) but you have so many different approaches to reaching that goal depending on your draw and your opponent's strategy.
It is refreshing to play something that can adapt to so many situations without sacrificing consistency that isn't simply "win the board and smash the opponent's head in" or "stall for your late game win condition or fatigue." I'm not suggesting every deck is boring or has no plan B, I'm saying I can really see the appeal in these Hunter builds and think that other archetypes should be brought up to par (no problem with some decks being stronger in early and others stronger in late, but the idea of having SOME kind of proactive game plan in all stages of the game is a great direction for Hearthstone. To me it seems that the decks are not popular because they are broken (~50% win rates across the board generally) but because they are engaging and always have something that feels decent to do.
Also re: the hero power, putting your opponent on a clock isn't necessarily synonymous with an aggro play style. Control Priest clocks you in a much more "aggressive" fashion and is a control deck (albeit a proactive one) by nature.
Odd rogue is 680 dust more than spell hunter and the same cost as secret hunter. It's just a fact that hunter has less expensive decks which leads to more users of said decks. Not everyone has thousands of dust.
I would much rather a hunter meta than a kingsbane meta. But yes, this community is full of sheep. When druid was nerfed almost everyone stopped playing it and waited for the streamers to "create" a viable deck for druid. It's kinda sad, but people are and always will be sheep.
I'm not sure what you class as Hybrid Hunter (as this doesn't really give much of a clue as to what the deck is). Similarly with Midrange in fairness. But at rank 5 -> Legend, all I am seeing from Hunter is Spell Hunter, Beast Hunter (Master's Call variant) and occasionally Deathrattle Hunter.
But considering other archetypes that have had (if brief) some affect on the meta at times:
- Quest Hunter
- Odd Hunter
- Tempo Hunter (Beasts and Secrets, along with the Bow and Spellstone)
These have all been heavily geared towards a singular and similar play format - trying to beat down the opponent / overwhelm him as quicly as possible.
I can't think of any decks that look specifically to stall to the late game or pull off a combo to beat the opponent / win. Though I am sure people have tried; I even came across someone trying to make a Hunter Mecathun deck once. It didn't go well though. :-)
That's not to say I wouldn't like to see something new and different for the class. I really, really would. There are a number of us who have been crying out for some good late game deck cards for the class. Though Call of the Wild is probably the best / only thing we've gotten in that regard so far and it's not amazing. There are a few "ok" late game cards available (technically) but nothing that I woudl say is competitively viable... yet...
how about you all relax with ur complain? huh?
you whine so freaking much. its not players fault. we all know that it is blizzard who is the retarded who cant balance the game
"Widely considered one dimensional".- by WHO? Firebat has stated on stream that Hunter has become the most skill demanding class to play because of the DK Rexxar since very Zombeast created is a dynamic decision. Obviously you don't believe this. But the opinion of a World Class player is obviously higher than a whiny little child, so nobody gives a chit about your opinion.