I think you are forced to use them because your winrate is astronomically small if you dont, but I personally hate broken combos that are easy to pull off, or just super strong cards in general. They really ruin the game, because when you are forced to play specific cards then every single archetype that doesnt use those cards is unviable.
The thing is your WR doesnt drop drastically when using weaker decks. For instance how much is 5% WR difference? Out of 100 games played, your going to win 5 more. And then ask yourself? Would you rather play deck you enjoy more or youre just gridning ladder to prove to whole world you were able to get legend with easiest and strongest decks?
I just dont get it. I dont fucking get it why people chose to play whats the strongest instead chosing sth A BIT weaker and have more fun. But this is basically what I asked for - if winning is all that matters to someone.
Winning is very fun. For me at least.
You also underestimate how much 5% winrate means when climbing ladder, even if you do it just for the R5 chest. 55% is twice the games 60% is. 50% to 55% is the difference between dwelling rank 15 and possibly getting legend.
How on earth 55% is twice the games 60%? Even if you include win streaks I still dont get it. And lets talk about rank 5 to legend here. I dont see any point in measuring decks WR from 20-10 as a very good player can easily get 80% WR with tier 1 decks.
Found this table, based on data produced by some redditor:
HTH
Don't reply with math! Math is not salt! Only salt and made up statistics for Hearthpwn!
cards that require a deck build around them to be broken are fine imo. cards like bonemare and scalebane which you throw in any deck that is tempo oriented are extremely annoying to play against though and bad for the game
And raza + anduin combo isnt annoying? I cant remember one smiley face any of HS streamers. I dont think ive seen it on my friends face neither :D
Raza + Anduin may be a very strong combination but it is by no means easy to play. Ask every rank 10 and below player what their winrate is with this busted deck which they just netdecked without knowing game fundamentals. It's similar to freezemage and a lot of people complaining about their board being frozen when they never actually played the deck and understood just how much skill it required to pilot properly.
Broken cards exist and continue to exist but with the exclusion of the aggro archetype, combo and control decks require skill more than anything.
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The problem is that the term "Broken" gets thrown around a lot these days and is becoming incredibly over/misused.
Most decks that some people decry as being "broken" are often not even slightly the case (see decks like Razakus Priest, etc). They may be very strong decks that synergise well, but to label them as broken is a misnomer.
If they were broken then we would see winrates in the 80-100% mark, since they would be essentially unstoppable. As it is, most of the Tier 1 decks currently barely top the 60s most of the time.
Raza Priest is broken. The only counter is aggro. I do not believe any deck should ONLY be countered by a different archetype. Essentially, control decks should be able to compete with other control decks. Either way, it doesn't matter, because there is another king of the broken. Bonemare Hunter is crushing everything. Bonemare has fixed aggro's major weakness.
Bonemare..... hunter....? I didn't see that in the Tier 1 list to be fair....
If Raza Priest was broken and aggro the only counter, then that means that everyone would be playing either of these two in the upper meta ranks. Again, I haven't seen that myself. Do you have some stats to back that up? And some stats showing that the winrate of this "broken" deck is topping 80-100% (which is what a broken deck would achieve - the 20% allowing for the so-called agro counters). And if aggro is so good against this "broken" deck, then this would mean that aggro is also broken. Is that what you're saying?
Is ya'll one of 'dem anti-aggro boyz? Izz yer? Boy?
the problem , blizzard has with this game is, that most of the playerbase are kids. so if they suddenly decide to make the game completely skillbased they would loose a bunch of their players.
an example: how many kids do play chess?
obviously blizzards number one priority is to make money.
many guys here hate on ben brode but to be honest i dont even think he has a choice. the guys from blizzard have a clear strategy how the game should operate. and thats crazy combos and fun mechanics, if they are op it may be so. the game wont change in the future,forget about it. it stays the "crazy"/funny game because of its playerbase.
The problem is that the term "Broken" gets thrown around a lot these days and is becoming incredibly over/misused.
Most decks that some people decry as being "broken" are often not even slightly the case (see decks like Razakus Priest, etc). They may be very strong decks that synergise well, but to label them as broken is a misnomer.
If they were broken then we would see winrates in the 80-100% mark, since they would be essentially unstoppable. As it is, most of the Tier 1 decks currently barely top the 60s most of the time.
Raza Priest is broken. The only counter is aggro. I do not believe any deck should ONLY be countered by a different archetype. Essentially, control decks should be able to compete with other control decks. Either way, it doesn't matter, because there is another king of the broken. Bonemare Hunter is crushing everything. Bonemare has fixed aggro's major weakness.
Bonemare..... hunter....? I didn't see that in the Tier 1 list to be fair....
If Raza Priest was broken and aggro the only counter, then that means that everyone would be playing either of these two in the upper meta ranks. Again, I haven't seen that myself. Do you have some stats to back that up? And some stats showing that the winrate of this "broken" deck is topping 80-100% (which is what a broken deck would achieve - the 20% allowing for the so-called agro counters). And if aggro is so good against this "broken" deck, then this would mean that aggro is also broken. Is that what you're saying?
Is ya'll one of 'dem anti-aggro boyz? Izz yer? Boy?
You'll see it in the next Meta Report from VS. Only started the last five days. Also, try less moving forward.
The problem is that the term "Broken" gets thrown around a lot these days and is becoming incredibly over/misused.
Most decks that some people decry as being "broken" are often not even slightly the case (see decks like Razakus Priest, etc). They may be very strong decks that synergise well, but to label them as broken is a misnomer.
If they were broken then we would see winrates in the 80-100% mark, since they would be essentially unstoppable. As it is, most of the Tier 1 decks currently barely top the 60s most of the time.
Raza Priest is broken. The only counter is aggro. I do not believe any deck should ONLY be countered by a different archetype. Essentially, control decks should be able to compete with other control decks. Either way, it doesn't matter, because there is another king of the broken. Bonemare Hunter is crushing everything. Bonemare has fixed aggro's major weakness.
Bonemare..... hunter....? I didn't see that in the Tier 1 list to be fair....
If Raza Priest was broken and aggro the only counter, then that means that everyone would be playing either of these two in the upper meta ranks. Again, I haven't seen that myself. Do you have some stats to back that up? And some stats showing that the winrate of this "broken" deck is topping 80-100% (which is what a broken deck would achieve - the 20% allowing for the so-called agro counters). And if aggro is so good against this "broken" deck, then this would mean that aggro is also broken. Is that what you're saying?
Is ya'll one of 'dem anti-aggro boyz? Izz yer? Boy?
You'll see it in the next Meta Report from VS. Only started the last five days. Also, try less moving forward.
I think Bonemare Hunter is just preying on greedy Big Druid and Big Priest decks. I'm inclined to believe it's still behind better aggro-midrange decks like Tempo Rogue and Murloc Paladin. And honestly, it's probably weak enough to Shaman that as soon as the lists become more known, they'll stop functioning as well.
If every deck is broken, then nothing is. That's been my philosophy from the start. If a few key cards are seen over and over and prevents diversity, that just means there aren't enough broken card in the game to contest those decks superiority.
This used to be my philosophy as well, but I had to amend it. If decks become broken to the point where all that matters is interacting with itself, then there's a problem. This is basically where YGO has been the last 5 or so years.
I just caught up with the thread, but I have to tell you: Dr. Boom is indeed a joke nowadays... Its a card that doesnt interact with the board or the gamestate when its played (no taunt, no clear, no heal, no draw immediatelly after played), and does not add to any combo nor puts you closer to your wincondition... Its just too slow for aggro/tempo decks to add, and its simply excluded from combo oriented decks... Trust me I was rank 74 last season... I went to rank4 with my current meta secret - nzoth pally. I started with Dr. Boom in the deck, but later I changed it to a bonemare, had better winrates due to its buffing AND taunt effect...
How on earth is dr boom a joke? I mean I de him once standard was introduced but still... 7 mana 9/9 + 1-4 dmg? He was used in every kind of a deck. Has sth changed? I just cant imagine this card being weak unless youre one of those players who usually have bad luck (because it is statistically possible - just like my life FeelsBadMan).
Well, i rarely see him in wild these days. Bots are kinda bad targets for N'Zoth, and Bonemare is better at dealing face damage. As for 7 mana 9/9, he's a legendary after all, not some war golem; this way say Onyxia may be considered 9 mana 14/14 too if played on empty board.
Where's the option for "There will always be OP cards in relation to other cards because you can't perfectly balance every card in a game. I'm ok with OP cards as long as they are not ruining the game"
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
I remember few years ago during one of my firsts visitis at hearthpwn. People were shit talking about cards liek sludge beltcher, piloted shredder, dr boom, Grim Patron decks. As a new player, I did not really understand the frustration. For me it was - you pay more money for a game so you want to have stronger cards. Youre more skilled - you can use more skilfull decks and win more often.
Nowadays I see that it isnt the case anymore because it seems that everyone can afford them and its never fun to play against such cards or their combinations (ultimate infestations, raza + anduin).
I dislike strategies which are easy to maneuver such as playing strongest cards each turn or when control deck allows for many mistakes to be made despite winning.
Do you like playing the strongest cards and strategies for easy win? Or maybe if each class were represented broken cards then it would all have been fair? What is your opinion about nerfing, should more testing before releasing be made.
You missed a very important option in the Poll:
"I enjoy using powerful cards and strategies and I'm fine with them existing as long as there is counterplay available against them."
This is my stance. I think powerful cards and strategies are what drives people to play. For me, I enjoy playing powerful cards and strategies, I enjoy even playing not so powerful cards or strategies as long as they provide interesting situation. But I only enjoy it if there is counterplay available. If that is not the case, then it can easily lead to balance problems in the game which I am not fond of.
I'll pick up the Exodia, Infinite Fireballs example. I love this strategy, it's super fun to have a combo that allows the player to deal unlimited amounts of Damage, but there obviously needs to be counterplay available for players to deal with this strategy, because obviously, Infinite Damage is a really powerful strategy. The good thing is, Blizzard already has plenty of counterplay available in game to deal with this strategy, so it if perfectly fine to exist. Multiple Hard and Soft counters in the form of Counter Decks and Tech Cards which players can use to improve the matchup, this allows Blizzard to give players powerful strategies while also keeping them balanced and in check.
This is great, gives us diversity to play with, very important in a Card Game.
ok
Raza + Anduin may be a very strong combination but it is by no means easy to play. Ask every rank 10 and below player what their winrate is with this busted deck which they just netdecked without knowing game fundamentals. It's similar to freezemage and a lot of people complaining about their board being frozen when they never actually played the deck and understood just how much skill it required to pilot properly.
Broken cards exist and continue to exist but with the exclusion of the aggro archetype, combo and control decks require skill more than anything.
I didn't see that in the Tier 1 list to be fair....
And some stats showing that the winrate of this "broken" deck is topping 80-100% (which is what a broken deck would achieve - the 20% allowing for the so-called agro counters).
And if aggro is so good against this "broken" deck, then this would mean that aggro is also broken.
Is that what you're saying?
bonemare is nothing when compare dr.boom
i doubt bonemare will see play if it present in GvG , it too slow and win more card
the problem , blizzard has with this game is, that most of the playerbase are kids. so if they suddenly decide to make the game completely skillbased they would loose a bunch of their players.
an example: how many kids do play chess?
obviously blizzards number one priority is to make money.
many guys here hate on ben brode but to be honest i dont even think he has a choice. the guys from blizzard have a clear strategy how the game should operate. and thats crazy combos and fun mechanics, if they are op it may be so. the game wont change in the future,forget about it. it stays the "crazy"/funny game because of its playerbase.
idk about broken
But renozakus, tempo rogue and demon renolock are a lot of fun for sure ! Best wild meta ever !!
I just caught up with the thread, but I have to tell you: Dr. Boom is indeed a joke nowadays... Its a card that doesnt interact with the board or the gamestate when its played (no taunt, no clear, no heal, no draw immediatelly after played), and does not add to any combo nor puts you closer to your wincondition... Its just too slow for aggro/tempo decks to add, and its simply excluded from combo oriented decks... Trust me I was rank 74 last season... I went to rank4 with my current meta secret - nzoth pally. I started with Dr. Boom in the deck, but later I changed it to a bonemare, had better winrates due to its buffing AND taunt effect...
I use Dr 7 in my Wild Control Mage. The Bots are good targets for Frost Lich Jaina
Where's the option for "There will always be OP cards in relation to other cards because you can't perfectly balance every card in a game. I'm ok with OP cards as long as they are not ruining the game"
That is such a loaded question lol.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
how many people, so many opinions