I had a thought a few hours ago. I know currently Hearthstone's business model is set around it being a card game like Magic: The Gathering, with card packs and random drops, but Hearthstone is unique in that the cards aren't physical, and is also a video game. So, I was curious, how many of you, hypothetically speaking, would like if Hearthstone offered an option to pay a subscription fee to rent cards each month from the current standard set for that month's ranked season? Most card games can't do this, but this is a very standard model for video game subscriptions, which is why the nature of Hearthstone being a video game and a card game is puzzling, since we've never had one like this on such a grand scale. The subscription fee could look something like, for example, $15 a month to rent 100 cards from whatever the current standard set is at the time. I'm not saying that this is what it should be, since I pulled those numbers mostly out of my ass, but I was curious what people's reactions to this sort of thing would be. Thoughts?
Well, the thing is that the game is designed around being a Card Collecting Game. As such, the idea of starting with a limited supply of cards and slowly gathering them up isn't a holdover of physical card games but a feature. A major element of joining a game is finding the cards then making decks based on your collection. It's somewhat similar to pokemon in that way.
So it't not just treating it like a video game (because not many games do subscriptions anymore, and MANY of them DO collection systems) but really sticking to the CCG genre. I imagine there are card games that aren't CCGs, but that's a completely differnet model and style.
that's a good point, but would you do it if it was offered? I think I would. I go to school full time and I work 40+ hours a week. I don't always have time to grind for the perfect cards I want. This would save me a lot of time. I understand why the business model is what it is, of course. I was just curious what people thought.
So at Magfest 2016, I attended a panel on card games hosted by, amongst others, a Wizard developer for Magic. At one point they were asked about what a "Hearthstone killer" would look like, and they imagined it as a game with monthly paid subscription, that just gave you the entire card collection, which they could tweak and change as needed because all players have all the cards anyway. If one wanted to depart entirely from the physical card industry standards for a digital card game, at the expense of the collecting aspect, that seems like the way to go.
So at Magfest 2016, I attended a panel on card games hosted by, amongst others, a Wizard developer for Magic. At one point they were asked about what a "Hearthstone killer" would look like, and they imagined it as a game with monthly paid subscription, that just gave you the entire card collection, which they could tweak and change as needed because all players have all the cards anyway. If one wanted to depart entirely from the physical card industry standards for a digital card game, at the expense of the collecting aspect, that seems like the way to go.
There have been card games like that, where it's one purchase and you get EVERYTHING. Small time things though, nothing big.
Thing is, to me that's similar to saying that you want Starcraft to be turn based. It's basically turning it into a completely different genre with a different target market.
I mean, someone should make that, a BIG title. I wouldn't do a subscription, though. I would make it into a regular purchase title for $40-60 and NOT use 'card battle game' as it'll attract the folks after a CCG/TCG to collect cards.
Honestly, I don't think MTG would have any fear of a game like that, similar to how Blizzard wouldn't fear a turn based 'Starcraft'. I wouldn't play a game like that as wouldn't anyone who loves progression based/collection based systems. I don't want every card from the new expansion right NOW, I want to see what 50 packs of cards can get me. I LIKED opening Varian in TGT while others picked up other cards. I like realizing i have 1600 dust and going "hmm, what should I get now.."
I also wouldn't be able to play a game that costs $40. Can't afford it :p. I'm a F2Per.
But many WOULD like all of the cards, so they can go right ot making strategies right NOW with them. MTG and HS shouldn't cater to that player base. They need a game that is built, from the ground up, for THAT game. And they would have to figure out how to get you to pay up front for it since you can't F2P mode a game like that.
$40 + pay for expansion packs every year or two for new cards. Starcraft system where you only play with people with the same expansion you have. No subscription, because, if you haven't noticed, that hasn't worked for the past two decades if you weren't WoW.
It wouldn't hurt MTG or HS though similar to how HS doesn't really hurt MTG or the other way around.
Part of what keeps people engaged in card games is that "Wow!" factor of opening up cards and bragging to others about cool cards they opened from packs or are considering crafting. Why else do you think Hearthstone has that little notification indicator when a friend opens a legendary from a pack?
Having a subscription basis seems nice on paper, but players like the feeling of ownership, despite the fact that the cards are all digital.
If MtG tried this model where they said "Here's a box with 2 copies of every card in the standard set" and charged $100 for it, I don't think people would buy it. It's a bad business model, and it's boring.
Go to a midnight pre-release event for MtG some time and just see how many times someone opens a pack proclaiming "I got a [powerful new card] over here!" and everyone else goes "Ooooh, aaaah!" It's part of the culture and part of the entertainment factor of it.
Eventually you start straddling the line between interesting new decks with that slight random element and a game that's pure strategy.
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Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
your point about turned based starcraft is irrelevant, since starcaft being turn based wouldn't change the business model. That is all I am talking about, is a business model. Also, I never said to get rid of the current system. I said what would it be like if players had the option to do so. It wouldn't take any experience away from those players who cherish the collecting and ownership part of the game. You could still play for free. I'm curious how people would react to having the option to pay to rent the cards they want, but not own them. And apparently I am not the first person to think of this.
your point about turned based starcraft is irrelevant, since starcaft being turn based wouldn't change the business model. That is all I am talking about, is a business model. Also, I never said to get rid of the current system. I said what would it be like if players had the option to do so. It wouldn't take any experience away from those players who cherish the collecting and ownership part of the game. You could still play for free. I'm curious how people would react to having the option to pay to rent the cards they want, but not own them. And apparently I am not the first person to think of this.
From a business standpoint, it would potentially gut their business entirely unless it's more expensive, over time, to rent the cards than to purchase them. Note that it takes about $400 to 'buy' a full expansion currently. It also puts a bigger wedge on the F2P playerbase. Pay a simple set price and have everything right now or GRINNNND for the current cards. A person buying $400 worth of packs to get everything is one thing. They pay big with cash, I pay with time. $25 for the same experience.. I don't know. To use the starcraft analogy, it's like some people being able to go turn based and others real time (ignoring the logical issues from that :P). People are going to complain that the other side gets an advantage for playing 'the right way'.
F2P models are VERY tricky to keep from feeling P2W. The perception that adding cash= easy button sours the experience. It's mitigated since we all have to buy packs and go through the same system. This is from MMO experience that has incorporated the same F2PorSubscription model.
Note that giving tournament players all of the cards right before the tournament isn't actually the best option in many cases since a good tournament player will spend a long while practicing their chosen decks beforehand. And besides, if they decide to do so, they can just give them an account with all of the cards. It HAS been done in some tournaments.
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One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
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I had a thought a few hours ago. I know currently Hearthstone's business model is set around it being a card game like Magic: The Gathering, with card packs and random drops, but Hearthstone is unique in that the cards aren't physical, and is also a video game. So, I was curious, how many of you, hypothetically speaking, would like if Hearthstone offered an option to pay a subscription fee to rent cards each month from the current standard set for that month's ranked season? Most card games can't do this, but this is a very standard model for video game subscriptions, which is why the nature of Hearthstone being a video game and a card game is puzzling, since we've never had one like this on such a grand scale. The subscription fee could look something like, for example, $15 a month to rent 100 cards from whatever the current standard set is at the time. I'm not saying that this is what it should be, since I pulled those numbers mostly out of my ass, but I was curious what people's reactions to this sort of thing would be. Thoughts?
Seems kind of pointless?
With decks being only 30 cards it seems easy enough to get all the ones you need instead of "renting" cards...
Well, the thing is that the game is designed around being a Card Collecting Game. As such, the idea of starting with a limited supply of cards and slowly gathering them up isn't a holdover of physical card games but a feature. A major element of joining a game is finding the cards then making decks based on your collection. It's somewhat similar to pokemon in that way.
So it't not just treating it like a video game (because not many games do subscriptions anymore, and MANY of them DO collection systems) but really sticking to the CCG genre. I imagine there are card games that aren't CCGs, but that's a completely differnet model and style.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
that's a good point, but would you do it if it was offered? I think I would. I go to school full time and I work 40+ hours a week. I don't always have time to grind for the perfect cards I want. This would save me a lot of time. I understand why the business model is what it is, of course. I was just curious what people thought.
So at Magfest 2016, I attended a panel on card games hosted by, amongst others, a Wizard developer for Magic. At one point they were asked about what a "Hearthstone killer" would look like, and they imagined it as a game with monthly paid subscription, that just gave you the entire card collection, which they could tweak and change as needed because all players have all the cards anyway. If one wanted to depart entirely from the physical card industry standards for a digital card game, at the expense of the collecting aspect, that seems like the way to go.
well atleast that means I'm not the only one thinking of the possibility, lol XD
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Part of what keeps people engaged in card games is that "Wow!" factor of opening up cards and bragging to others about cool cards they opened from packs or are considering crafting. Why else do you think Hearthstone has that little notification indicator when a friend opens a legendary from a pack?
Having a subscription basis seems nice on paper, but players like the feeling of ownership, despite the fact that the cards are all digital.
If MtG tried this model where they said "Here's a box with 2 copies of every card in the standard set" and charged $100 for it, I don't think people would buy it. It's a bad business model, and it's boring.
Go to a midnight pre-release event for MtG some time and just see how many times someone opens a pack proclaiming "I got a [powerful new card] over here!" and everyone else goes "Ooooh, aaaah!" It's part of the culture and part of the entertainment factor of it.
Eventually you start straddling the line between interesting new decks with that slight random element and a game that's pure strategy.
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
your point about turned based starcraft is irrelevant, since starcaft being turn based wouldn't change the business model. That is all I am talking about, is a business model. Also, I never said to get rid of the current system. I said what would it be like if players had the option to do so. It wouldn't take any experience away from those players who cherish the collecting and ownership part of the game. You could still play for free. I'm curious how people would react to having the option to pay to rent the cards they want, but not own them. And apparently I am not the first person to think of this.
From a business standpoint, it would potentially gut their business entirely unless it's more expensive, over time, to rent the cards than to purchase them. Note that it takes about $400 to 'buy' a full expansion currently. It also puts a bigger wedge on the F2P playerbase. Pay a simple set price and have everything right now or GRINNNND for the current cards. A person buying $400 worth of packs to get everything is one thing. They pay big with cash, I pay with time. $25 for the same experience.. I don't know. To use the starcraft analogy, it's like some people being able to go turn based and others real time (ignoring the logical issues from that :P). People are going to complain that the other side gets an advantage for playing 'the right way'.
F2P models are VERY tricky to keep from feeling P2W. The perception that adding cash= easy button sours the experience. It's mitigated since we all have to buy packs and go through the same system. This is from MMO experience that has incorporated the same F2PorSubscription model.
Note that giving tournament players all of the cards right before the tournament isn't actually the best option in many cases since a good tournament player will spend a long while practicing their chosen decks beforehand. And besides, if they decide to do so, they can just give them an account with all of the cards. It HAS been done in some tournaments.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.