So many Priest cards have little or no use at all. It's quite appalling that Blizzard fails to address this and continues to strap the class with terrible upgrades to add to the standard set of cards.
Forbidden Shaping - This card could have some use if we weren't so busy trying to defend ourselves from Agro decks.
Silence - Waste of a card spot for such limited effect.
Power Word: Tentacles: Mana cost too high to be timely useful. Compare this to Paladin: Blessing of Might or Diving Strength or Seal of Champions or Blessing of Kings.
Temple Enforcer: Terrible, see Seal of Champions which does two effects for half the cost.
Okay, I gotta agree that priest has a lot of cards that really aren't that useful, but that doesn't mean priest is necessarily in a bad spot right now imo. I mean, let's turn off the pessimistic light here for a second and look at cards that gave priest a serious overhaul after WoG. Twilight Darkmender and Hooded Acolyte are two incredibly good cards that help make C'Thun Priest the awesome deck it is, but most of the power still comes from the basic C'Thun cultists. Dragon Priest is still running strong and so is N'Zoth Priest. I mean, what's the point in looking at all of the bad class cards for priest when it's all of the new basic cards that really diversified the class and made it stronger?
Why not use a small amount of your time to format the text so the cards get highlighted, I might be the weird one here, but that one detail made me ignore your whole post.
I added pictures for you, hopefully you can follow the discussion now........
Your descriptions of the cards shows that you have spotted the potential value of them.
For example, Shadowfiend, with coldlight or a novice adventurer, would return immediate dividends.
mass dispell would work well in anti-zoolock and anti-shield-paladin.
Confuse is great in a OTK deck.
1. Even if I play Mass Dispel on turn 4, then I still have no body and have only slowed down the Paladin. By turn 5, they will have 5 minions on the board with a weapon, even if dispelled, they will still beat my face as there is no protection or offense.
2. Mass Dispel is 3 mana, plus Coldlight Oracle another 3 mana card to get two reduced cards for 6 mana isn't efficient. If you add Novice Engineer that's still 5 mana to get two cards at a reduced cost.
But remember, Ben Brode says there is a great priest deck out there nobody is seeing.
Yeah, but Ben Brode is an optimist. Until this deck has been played we do not know how good it is, and it is unlikely all these useless cards will suddenly become good. When a class is so heavily built around a few themes (Control, OTK, Stealing) cards that don't fit those themes like Shadowbomber and etc are completely horrible.
Go play wild N'Zoth priest. If you can't burst it down might as well concede. That deck will out value and beat every other control deck. Those priest cards in wild are why they are careful with what they give priest. It does not take much for priest to dominate with all of it's control and steal shit. I enjoy wild alot until i get matched with that stupid deck.
Yeah, but it's like I said before, it's not the Priest class cards that make Priest strong right now, but the basic cards added in WoG and earlier expansions too. For example, Shadow Priest with Tournament Medic and Kodorider destroys control decks, and one thing I've always thought about is how a Yogg Priest would work. I mean, if Hunter can pull it off then why can't Priest?
But remember, Ben Brode says there is a great priest deck out there nobody is seeing.
Yeah, but Ben Brode is an optimist. Until this deck has been played we do not know how good it is, and it is unlikely all these useless cards will suddenly become good. When a class is so heavily built around a few themes (Control, OTK, Stealing) cards that don't fit those themes like Shadowbomber and etc are completely horrible.
Yeah, but like I said before, it's not the Priest class cards that give Priest potential right now, but the basic cards that were added in WoG. One thing I've been thinking about is how a Yogg Priest would work in a control type setting, since we've seen classes like Hunter pull it off. And even beyond WoG, Shadow Priest with Tournament Medic and Kodorider demolishes control decks of all kinds.
But remember, Ben Brode says there is a great priest deck out there nobody is seeing.
Ben Brode never said that... he said "Hey assholes! It's not our fault Priest sucks right now, create a good Priest deck already with the shitty cards we gave you god'dammit!!". That's what he really meant, that maaaaaybe it's possible to make a good deck, but nobody came up with one yet.
Your descriptions of the cards shows that you have spotted the potential value of them.
For example, Shadowfiend, with coldlight or a novice adventurer, would return immediate dividends.
mass dispell would work well in anti-zoolock and anti-shield-paladin.
Confuse is great in a OTK deck.
That was my thought. A lot of Priest cards seem to just barely miss the mark on their value. For instance, Shadowfiend isn't bad in a class that has the ability to immediately draw cheaply with Power Word: Shield. There are just no decks to take advantage of it, either because they are too full or don't have any way to use the savings well.
I personally disagree with these cards, except Dart Trap and Brave Archer, being useless, but i was using mainly the same logic you were with priest. The point is no class, even the meta shaman, is full of great cards. If they were, random card engines like Spellslinger would be too good. Also, People used to think lava shock was useless, which means they could find comboes in the future.
PS saying a card is only useful in OTK is like saying Darkshire Councilman is only useful in Zoo
I repeat: go back and have look during beta and classic. Cards like Mindgames saw alot of play during those times.
I simply explained that the limited mindset of saying "X card is worthless" is an idiotic statement especially for cards that exist in the classic set. And then gave PLENTY of examples of situations where these things have been used to great effect so... for the sake of your own intelligence, stop replying to people but rather read and listen to folks who actually know what they are talking about.
And LsmileL... please explain to me how I am wrong. I can also make a broad statement and say "This card is useful because it exist". To state a card is 'unusable' is ignorent and stupid and I gave plenty of examples where priest cards have been used in the past to great effect. I am not going to sit here and debate what I have already proven and especially not when counter arguments are "lol u wrung, l2p preist" and "I hearby declare that you are wrong for absolutely no reason"...
So... if folks are going to argue against me, could people at least have actual arguments instead of snarky comments that frankly... well, could be considered as spam and/or idiotic waste of time?
Or at least if you don't believe your arguments to be idiotic at least state a single one of the examples I gave that are 'unrealistic' and explain why it so I can shred you to bits! ^^
You call the OP an idiot several times just because you disagree with him, then you report my post for being snarky.. wow... Here's some constructive facts for you: most of your arguments are based on rank 20 logic. Sure Mindgames can be argued as being useful against control classes, but if I wanted to tech for control classes, there are a million better options. You are not going to convince me or any other priest main that mindgames is worth putting in my deck, so give up. And it's laughable that you would mention arena in a balance discussion, especially considering it's a mode that still uses Wild cards.
hopefully priest will get something better in the next adventure.
Unfortunately some of us are tired of hopefully waiting for the next and the next. This has been the same since the beginning. All of their decisions are short-term hype.
They basically only focus on expansions (which starts to get tiresome) and even there they werent doing a good job. The last 2 expansions were great and with some awesome cards/mechanics but for me it's what they should have released, since the beginning (especially since the game requires so much investment in time and money). Tavern Brawl is also great but again short-term hype + imo Flamewaker is ruining some of them. I believe that Arena is the best play mode they have and they havent done anything with it in 3 years (also the only thing that is somewhat keeping some of us in this game).
Not a personal attack (or salty :P); just disheartened with the evolution of this game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
The only thing that priests needs now to stay competive is more anti aggro cards. Priest has excellent answers in late game but really struggles with aggro decks if it doesn't have Archenai and Circle of Healing combo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That was topdecked? Nah, it was because I let the Heart of the Cards guide me ;)
I repeat: go back and have look during beta and classic. Cards like Mindgames saw alot of play during those times.
I simply explained that the limited mindset of saying "X card is worthless" is an idiotic statement especially for cards that exist in the classic set. And then gave PLENTY of examples of situations where these things have been used to great effect so... for the sake of your own intelligence, stop replying to people but rather read and listen to folks who actually know what they are talking about.
And LsmileL... please explain to me how I am wrong. I can also make a broad statement and say "This card is useful because it exist". To state a card is 'unusable' is ignorent and stupid and I gave plenty of examples where priest cards have been used in the past to great effect. I am not going to sit here and debate what I have already proven and especially not when counter arguments are "lol u wrung, l2p preist" and "I hearby declare that you are wrong for absolutely no reason"...
So... if folks are going to argue against me, could people at least have actual arguments instead of snarky comments that frankly... well, could be considered as spam and/or idiotic waste of time?
Or at least if you don't believe your arguments to be idiotic at least state a single one of the examples I gave that are 'unrealistic' and explain why it so I can shred you to bits! ^^
Argentum, you mention in your post about how these have limited use in arena or that at one time they were good. My point is that these are cards that you simply do not see in a competitive deck and they really never have been. There are two ladders now, Standard and Wild. Tournaments only use Standard so Wild is fairly useless. One may argue that Priest is viable in Wild, but saying that admits that even optimally it is half as good as other classes; but still not the a great deck in Wild format.
Priest cards are too slow and lack any real synergy. When you consider that not t 1 of these cards sees regular play AND not one Priest Legendary sees regular play is simply sad. Are the cards totally unusable no. can you create a competitive deck with these as your basis. Highly dubious unless you're drinking Ben's tea.
Forbidden Shaping is nearly as clownish as Mind Games as they're based on RNG and usually result in terrible cards. Forbidden healing heals 2x a specific number. Forbidden Flame does a specific amount of damage. Forbidden Shaping? No clue.
So many Priest cards have little or no use at all. It's quite appalling that Blizzard fails to address this and continues to strap the class with terrible upgrades to add to the standard set of cards.
Forbidden Shaping - This card could have some use if we weren't so busy trying to defend ourselves from Agro decks.
Silence - Waste of a card spot for such limited effect.
Holy Smite - Useless unless you're a beginner.
Inner Fire - Only in a OTK deck, not extremely useful.
Mind Vision - Useless
Power Word: Glory- Easily played around since it heals you before the attack, so the damage is still done.
Confuse: I'm confused as to why this is in the game at all.
Convert : It could be okay, but fairly useless with the advent of Mind Control and Entomb.
Lightwell: It has possibilities, but has never been a serious play. Too easily killed before it does any good and negative synergy with shadow spells.
Shadowfiend: No use, it can never stay alive long enough to get any usage.
Mass Dispel: High Mana cost for fairly useless effect.
Mindgames: Useless against Warlocks and Rogues playing small cards and not enough effect for so much mana
Shadow Word: Horror- What was Ben Brode thinking? When most cards being played are out of reach of this card
Spawn of Shadows: *Blink* Really? *Blink*
Power Word: Tentacles: Mana cost too high to be timely useful. Compare this to Paladin: Blessing of Might or Diving Strength or Seal of Champions or Blessing of Kings.
Temple Enforcer: Terrible, see Seal of Champions which does two effects for half the cost.
Prophet Velen: OTK only otherwise useless.
Herald Volazj: Complete Joke
hopefully priest will get something better in the next adventure.
Okay, I gotta agree that priest has a lot of cards that really aren't that useful, but that doesn't mean priest is necessarily in a bad spot right now imo. I mean, let's turn off the pessimistic light here for a second and look at cards that gave priest a serious overhaul after WoG. Twilight Darkmender and Hooded Acolyte are two incredibly good cards that help make C'Thun Priest the awesome deck it is, but most of the power still comes from the basic C'Thun cultists. Dragon Priest is still running strong and so is N'Zoth Priest. I mean, what's the point in looking at all of the bad class cards for priest when it's all of the new basic cards that really diversified the class and made it stronger?
Your descriptions of the cards shows that you have spotted the potential value of them.
For example, Shadowfiend, with coldlight or a novice adventurer, would return immediate dividends.
mass dispell would work well in anti-zoolock and anti-shield-paladin.
Confuse is great in a OTK deck.
But remember, Ben Brode says there is a great priest deck out there nobody is seeing.
You do not truly know someone, until you fight them.....
And then you take a look at warlock cards and feel better about yourself.
Go play wild N'Zoth priest. If you can't burst it down might as well concede. That deck will out value and beat every other control deck. Those priest cards in wild are why they are careful with what they give priest. It does not take much for priest to dominate with all of it's control and steal shit. I enjoy wild alot until i get matched with that stupid deck.
Yeah, but it's like I said before, it's not the Priest class cards that make Priest strong right now, but the basic cards added in WoG and earlier expansions too. For example, Shadow Priest with Tournament Medic and Kodorider destroys control decks, and one thing I've always thought about is how a Yogg Priest would work. I mean, if Hunter can pull it off then why can't Priest?
Argentum your arguments are wrong.
You took each card and described very specific situation that Is far from reality, 99% - never happen.
Few of these cards may be useful in control meta (will it ever happen?)
Most cards are overcosred.
Some of them will be good in other classes, not current priest.
P.S. The only one that I enjoy - Mind vision. Because its cheap and can bring nice card without ruining your turn.
Do this with any class
Druid: Claw, Savagery, Healing Touch, Bite, Force of Nature, Keeper of the Grove, Knight of the Wild, Volcanic Lumberer
Hunter: Multi-Shot, Dart Trap, Snipe, Explorers Hat, Infest, Flare, Misdirection, Bestial Wrath, Brave Archer, Starving Buzzard, Giant Sand Worm, Acidmaw
Shaman: Ancestral Healing, Frost Shock, Forked Lightning, Totemic Might, Everyfin is Awesome, Dust Devil, Fireguard Destroyers, Windspeaker, Mistcaller
I personally disagree with these cards, except Dart Trap and Brave Archer, being useless, but i was using mainly the same logic you were with priest. The point is no class, even the meta shaman, is full of great cards. If they were, random card engines like Spellslinger would be too good. Also, People used to think lava shock was useless, which means they could find comboes in the future.
PS saying a card is only useful in OTK is like saying Darkshire Councilman is only useful in Zoo
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
The only thing that priests needs now to stay competive is more anti aggro cards. Priest has excellent answers in late game but really struggles with aggro decks if it doesn't have Archenai and Circle of Healing combo.
That was topdecked? Nah, it was because I let the Heart of the Cards guide me ;)