This is my slightly modified version of Midrange Paladin that I'm currently using around rank 4-3. It might not seem like many changes, but trust me, the result is incredible. It's sort of a blend but you will be surprised if you have the chance to try it out. Here are some of my opinions on cards that were not included and those that were:
Inclusions: (additional ones and modifications) - / -1xKodo, -The Black Knight = +Elise, +Spellbreaker
Elise - a lot of value late game and a good 5 drop with decent stats.
Spellbreaker instead of a Second Kodo - serve a similar purpose but can be even better against the likes of tirion or even Ysera. Very decent against other steeds as well.
Second copy of Spikeriged Steed - While one copy is decent, I found that after I went through with my exclusions (below), this spot opened up and was waiting with arms wide open. This card has not only saved me by just hero powering and buffing my 1/1 into a 3/7 [5/13], but has also provided me with plays that make very favorable trades and protecting important guys such as warleader or a buffed/poisonous murloc. So..here you go.
The Black Knight - Insane card in almost any match up. I had a long game against a couple of Jade Druids and this card is a gem. Not only that, but it works great against Shaman, Mirrors, Taunt Warrior (yeah, right), and even rogues spamming their Bilefin Tidehunters.
Second Primordial or a Vinecleaver instead of True Silver are possible changes, but I am not sure I like those that much. I believe one Drake is good enough as there is just nothing else that I or anyone can take out without hurting this version.
Exclusions:
Murloc Tidecaller - Ended up liking this in the straight-up Murloc Paladin deck - not so much in my Midrange deck. The reason why is it mostly dies before it can do anything or if you draw it late it's just bad. It forces you to make odd plays in the beginning and try to calculate how you can get your worth from it but for it to still live. Early game is more than good enough especially when you can halt some of the aggression with Aldor already.
Ivory Knight - I found this card to be pretty effective in control Paladin where you sort of have more time to not only think ahead but preserve your life total. However, a 6 mana 4/4 that most of the time will give you an odd spell or maybe even 6 heal is not that good. It forces you to spend 6 mana for a random spell and it does nothing to immediately threaten the board in any big way. I've ended up with 1 mana useless spells multiple times as well. It's still good in control though.
Lay on Hands - slow..Too slow if I might say. I've literally had the card in my hand and I've finished games where I just never played it. 8 mana heal for 8 and draw 3 is great..on paper. You can't really fit this card into a good tight play because you are trying to preserve your minions through buffs and adaptations while developing additional threats. Yes, you might get lucky sometimes with it, but still.
Hungry Crab - I've seen people run this in their Midrange Pally decks - Simply not needed. Dead card/slot in many match-ups. The definition of a 50/50 tech card.
If you do not have The Black Knight yet it's kind of hard to replace because of what he does. At least in this version of mine. Usually I think that the equalities are awesome, but still, taking care of an extra taunt minion is very helpful.
Looks good, will run a few test matches with it for sure.
Especially the exclusion of Ivory Knight is something I have been thinking about myself, there have been a lot of matches where I had to choose between 3 crappy spells and ultimately healed for 1, but then again there were also matchups where I pulled Lay on Hands or something crazy like that and won a close game.
Will post feedback after a few games.
Edit: What are your thoughts on including Harrison Jones? I don't have him, but I think he might have quite an impact with the lot of weapons in this meta and people being so greedy with charges. Might punish some of them pretty hard.
Is it good in early game? It looks kinda weak against rogue quest and aggro decks maybe Idk. But it does look interesting, I'll try it.
i would say pretty weak in the early game with only vilefins for 1-drops meaning you are much more than likely to be forced to play rockpool without synergy on 2. purely by looking at the curve, i would say you have a relatively high chance to just draw horrible and be dead on turn 5 against pirate warrior, aggro druid and aggro paladin
Is it good in early game? It looks kinda weak against rogue quest and aggro decks maybe Idk. But it does look interesting, I'll try it.
i would say pretty weak in the early game with only vilefins for 1-drops meaning you are much more than likely to be forced to play rockpool without synergy on 2. purely by looking at the curve, i would say you have a relatively high chance to just draw horrible and be dead on turn 5 against pirate warrior, aggro druid and aggro paladin
I believe you're wrong. Tidecallers only recently started getting included and for me, they do not work as well as I hoped. Read my explanation above and you'll understand. My other inclusions have made the deck MUCH more consistent and you almost always have a good curve as well. I've actually had better hands with my version then the one with tidecallers etc most of the time.
Just because everyone is playing tidecallers doesn't mean they're automatically must includes. They force you to play oddly in the beginning and they die too easily aside from a few lucky occasions. Try it for yourself and see.
Also I've had pretty consistent results in the Mirror as well around ranks 4-3. It's just consistent with those changes. If anyone has further ideas, feel free to lay them out.
Possibly a good inclusion. However, the only thing you can safely take out is Black Knight. Both of these are tech cards, so. Both can be really insane in the right situation. I believe it could work indeed.
Is it good in early game? It looks kinda weak against rogue quest and aggro decks maybe Idk. But it does look interesting, I'll try it.
i would say pretty weak in the early game with only vilefins for 1-drops meaning you are much more than likely to be forced to play rockpool without synergy on 2. purely by looking at the curve, i would say you have a relatively high chance to just draw horrible and be dead on turn 5 against pirate warrior, aggro druid and aggro paladin
I believe you're wrong. Tidecallers only recently started getting included and for me, they do not work as well as I hoped. Read my explanation above and you'll understand. My other inclusions have made the deck MUCH more consistent and you almost always have a good curve as well. I've actually had better hands with my version then the one with tidecallers etc most of the time.
Just because everyone is playing tidecallers doesn't mean they're automatically must includes. They force you to play oddly in the beginning and they die too easily aside from a few lucky occasions. Try it for yourself and see.
turn 1 tidecaller into turn 2 rockpool is a 3/3 and 2/3 on 2 which is amazing. its not just about having a super powerful turn 1, its about having a turn 1 in general. and tidecaller is a HUGE removal target for your opponent which forces out frostbolt, axe or coined eaglehorn. if you start playing minions on 2, or god forbid have to hero power on 2, you already lost to hunter 90% of the time and pirate warrior almost guaranteed.
by no means do i think its a bad deck, i just think youre trying to do a little too much with it
Again, for me it's not worth running the Tidecallers in Midrange Pally. I've had better success with it in the full blown Murloc Pally. I still agree with some of your points, I'm just saying I've had better success with my version at the higher ranks than the one with Tidecallers.
I've went into detail why I don't like them that much in my midrange deck. The reason why is because your mid to late game will be worse with tidecallers drawn late or when they die immediately. However, with my version you get to still have a good enough early game and have more value oriented turns later along with efficient removal.
Still, some of your points do make sense. However, for me and some other people, this version will be better. :)
Not really. Ivory Knight is sorta good in control. a 6 mana 4/4 that most of the time will give you a shitty spell is not worth it (in the midrange pally). Kodo has good synergy with Curator and it's a removal attached to a body. Kodo is also 5 mana so..it's just better in this deck. There are also numerous 2 attack minions and you sometimes simply have no way to get rid of them.
Looks good, will run a few test matches with it for sure.
Especially the exclusion of Ivory Knight is something I have been thinking about myself, there have been a lot of matches where I had to choose between 3 crappy spells and ultimately healed for 1, but then again there were also matchups where I pulled Lay on Hands or something crazy like that and won a close game.
Will post feedback after a few games.
Edit: What are your thoughts on including Harrison Jones? I don't have him, but I think he might have quite an impact with the lot of weapons in this meta and people being so greedy with charges. Might punish some of them pretty hard.
Lot of weapons? Most common class is Druid (useless) Second one Paladin (okay), Third one rogue (useless against the decks 9/10). Those 3 classes are almost 50% of the meta. Shaman is absent and Warrior is only useful against Quest one and it doesnt improve the match up. Mage and Priest useless. Warlock doesnt even exist and against hunter it doesnt improve the match up also. In conclussion it is only good against Paladin (and even there it might kill you by fatigue. Just play some ooze
Yep. The Black knight is a much better tech card in my version. I def agree on Harrison but since he doesn't have The Black Knight he can use that slot for something else.
Reached legend with 65% winrate midrange paladin. You need tidecaller. Withouth them you have a much, much worse match up against 2 of the top 3 decks: Druids and Rogues. You need as much pressure as you can and a withouth a turn 1 minion your chance to win reduces from 50% to 30/20% . I already have like a 55% winrate against them and trust me that you need it
And TBK sucks in this meta. The hell are you targeting? Aggro Druid, Quest Rogue (youre using 6 mana to kill a 0 mana minion), Control Mage and Midrange Paladin. You have 1 single deck to target. Then you have Priest and all those decks and finally taunt warrior (10% of my match ups were warrior, 7% of them Pirate Warrior) that youre already favored because of the early game (oh wait, you dont have it because you removed it) and Shaman, wow, the second least played class of the metagame which main deck (token shaman) dont run any taunt except from thing from below (6 mana to kill a 3/4 mana card)
Don't agree at all. I'm able to climb very fast within just 2-3 days much more successfully with my version. The black knight is awesome in certain situations. Against Paladin, Taunt warrior, Jade Druid, Priestand even rogues spamming bilefin tidecallers. Idk what you're talking about. I like it. It was also included in one of the most popular murloc pally decks and that's an aggro deck, so, go figure. It's a flex spot, don't forget that either.
Also, you have a 1 drop - Vilefin. Tidecallers were only included in the Murloc Pally decks and only recently got a spot in Midrange. I prefer to have that second steed and kodo to improve my mid and late game and still have a solid early game. I've almost always gotten Vilefin and rockpool and if not, I'm able to control the pace and outcome quite well with the more consistent inclusion in the deck. Tidecaller sucks when you draw it later as well.
Also, try not to be rude and state your opinions as if they are some sort of rules, they're not. It's good to experiment.
I have to say, it certainly is more fun than the standard list I was running. The winrate is pretty similar though, since the changes are rather small and my sample size is too.
So far, I've run into three Druids, where I'm 3-1. The loss was a Token Druid with a fantastic start with Hungry Crab, Raven, Y'Shaarj and Innervate in his first few rounds. The other two Token Druid were defeated with ease, although one made a horrible trading misplay, so this win is not completely on me. The one Jade Druid I faced was not able to stabilize after a perfect murloc 1-2-3 curve, so I don't know how this matchup will usually be.
I've faced three rogues, where I went 2-1, with a loss to a Quest Rogue. Both Miracle Rogues were fun to play against, but not much of a struggle. I got a pretty slow start against the Quest Rogue and he had both Glacial Shards early, but I was still able to give him a nice fight and lost closely.
In the mirror matchup I stand 0-1 against a more aggressive deck which had the Tidecaller and just exploded early.
Warrior was the only matchup where I actually got to use The Black Knight. I won that match.
Against Priest I also stand 1-0, but it was really interesting Quest Priest, so I don't know how the other matchups turn out.
The only match against a mage was a loss unfortunately, since I was not able to deal with two ravaging Mana Wyrms back to back with my pretty bad hand.
I faced one hunter, who was outpaced early and outvalued later. As a hunter main I felt pretty bad for him.
These games were played on Rank 5/4, in case someone is curious.
Overall, I agree with your changes. I feel they helped in some matchups while the cards they replaced were not missed too much. Double Stampeding Kodo certainly finds some value, as it is such a flexible card both with and without Aldor Peacekeeper, and even if played as a vanilla 3/5 not a play that loses you games. It works great with the second copy of Spikeridged Steed, because a 5/11 is such an ugly minion to deal with. I didn't run Murloc Tidecaller in the first place, so I can't miss him and although sometimes my early game/starting hand could use another one drop, I imagine drawing one on turn 10 would hurt much more. Paladin has sufficient comeback/control mechanics to make up for that.
One card I'm not so sure about is The Black Knight. Maybe it's because of the small sample size, maybe it's because he was just deep in my deck in most of the matches, but there was only one game where I got to actually get some value out of it. Of course, if he connects hes a massive tempo swing and can win matches on his own, but does that happen often enough to validate this slot?
@Inverna: I'm pretty sure these three classes are not 50% of the meta right now. Aren't there some statistics about that? Weapon removal has some value right now, every Günther Mage runs Medivh, both warrior archetypes run weapons, Paladin has no less than three archetypes seeing play that include weapons, and while Harrison doesn't get great value against Rogue, Hunter and Shaman, he can still find something to put in a museum there. However, I can't tell his real value for sure, since I don't have him. I run Ooze in my Controladin, where fatigue is a thing, but I don't think this deck needs to think about that. The game is usually decided with at least ~10 cards left.
So, basically, if you're not getting the desired Value from The Black Knight, you can still use that flex spot for something else. Whether that's going to be a Tidecaller or Vinecleaver or angry chicken, that's up to you. :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey guys and girls,
This is my slightly modified version of Midrange Paladin that I'm currently using around rank 4-3. It might not seem like many changes, but trust me, the result is incredible. It's sort of a blend but you will be surprised if you have the chance to try it out. Here are some of my opinions on cards that were not included and those that were:
Inclusions: (additional ones and modifications) - / -1xKodo, -The Black Knight = +Elise, +Spellbreaker
Exclusions:
Updated:
I don't have The Black Knight yet, but it's usually ok to save Equality for that nasty Taunt that comes out late game.
I have Avenging Wrath in my deck right now. Usually I play that and get a rage-quit win.
hello
If you do not have The Black Knight yet it's kind of hard to replace because of what he does. At least in this version of mine. Usually I think that the equalities are awesome, but still, taking care of an extra taunt minion is very helpful.
Looks good, will run a few test matches with it for sure.
Especially the exclusion of Ivory Knight is something I have been thinking about myself, there have been a lot of matches where I had to choose between 3 crappy spells and ultimately healed for 1, but then again there were also matchups where I pulled Lay on Hands or something crazy like that and won a close game.
Will post feedback after a few games.
Edit: What are your thoughts on including Harrison Jones? I don't have him, but I think he might have quite an impact with the lot of weapons in this meta and people being so greedy with charges. Might punish some of them pretty hard.
Is it good in early game? It looks kinda weak against rogue quest and aggro decks maybe Idk. But it does look interesting, I'll try it.
Also I've had pretty consistent results in the Mirror as well around ranks 4-3. It's just consistent with those changes. If anyone has further ideas, feel free to lay them out.
Possibly a good inclusion. However, the only thing you can safely take out is Black Knight. Both of these are tech cards, so. Both can be really insane in the right situation. I believe it could work indeed.
Ivory Knight is better than Kudo imo. The only reason I have a1 copy of kudo is because he is a beast.
Different experience and all but there has been many times where Kudo is a dead card on my hand. He is a worse version of Book Wyrm.
Again, for me it's not worth running the Tidecallers in Midrange Pally. I've had better success with it in the full blown Murloc Pally. I still agree with some of your points, I'm just saying I've had better success with my version at the higher ranks than the one with Tidecallers.
I've went into detail why I don't like them that much in my midrange deck. The reason why is because your mid to late game will be worse with tidecallers drawn late or when they die immediately. However, with my version you get to still have a good enough early game and have more value oriented turns later along with efficient removal.
Still, some of your points do make sense. However, for me and some other people, this version will be better. :)
Not really. Ivory Knight is sorta good in control. a 6 mana 4/4 that most of the time will give you a shitty spell is not worth it (in the midrange pally). Kodo has good synergy with Curator and it's a removal attached to a body. Kodo is also 5 mana so..it's just better in this deck. There are also numerous 2 attack minions and you sometimes simply have no way to get rid of them.
Yep. The Black knight is a much better tech card in my version. I def agree on Harrison but since he doesn't have The Black Knight he can use that slot for something else.
Reached legend with 65% winrate midrange paladin. You need tidecaller. Withouth them you have a much, much worse match up against 2 of the top 3 decks: Druids and Rogues. You need as much pressure as you can and a withouth a turn 1 minion your chance to win reduces from 50% to 30/20% . I already have like a 55% winrate against them and trust me that you need it
And TBK sucks in this meta. The hell are you targeting? Aggro Druid, Quest Rogue (youre using 6 mana to kill a 0 mana minion), Control Mage and Midrange Paladin. You have 1 single deck to target. Then you have Priest and all those decks and finally taunt warrior (10% of my match ups were warrior, 7% of them Pirate Warrior) that youre already favored because of the early game (oh wait, you dont have it because you removed it) and Shaman, wow, the second least played class of the metagame which main deck (token shaman) dont run any taunt except from thing from below (6 mana to kill a 3/4 mana card)
Don't agree at all. I'm able to climb very fast within just 2-3 days much more successfully with my version. The black knight is awesome in certain situations. Against Paladin, Taunt warrior, Jade Druid, Priest and even rogues spamming bilefin tidecallers. Idk what you're talking about. I like it. It was also included in one of the most popular murloc pally decks and that's an aggro deck, so, go figure. It's a flex spot, don't forget that either.
Also, you have a 1 drop - Vilefin. Tidecallers were only included in the Murloc Pally decks and only recently got a spot in Midrange. I prefer to have that second steed and kodo to improve my mid and late game and still have a solid early game. I've almost always gotten Vilefin and rockpool and if not, I'm able to control the pace and outcome quite well with the more consistent inclusion in the deck. Tidecaller sucks when you draw it later as well.
Also, try not to be rude and state your opinions as if they are some sort of rules, they're not. It's good to experiment.
I've played a few matches with this deck now.
I have to say, it certainly is more fun than the standard list I was running. The winrate is pretty similar though, since the changes are rather small and my sample size is too.
So far, I've run into three Druids, where I'm 3-1. The loss was a Token Druid with a fantastic start with Hungry Crab, Raven, Y'Shaarj and Innervate in his first few rounds. The other two Token Druid were defeated with ease, although one made a horrible trading misplay, so this win is not completely on me. The one Jade Druid I faced was not able to stabilize after a perfect murloc 1-2-3 curve, so I don't know how this matchup will usually be.
I've faced three rogues, where I went 2-1, with a loss to a Quest Rogue. Both Miracle Rogues were fun to play against, but not much of a struggle. I got a pretty slow start against the Quest Rogue and he had both Glacial Shards early, but I was still able to give him a nice fight and lost closely.
In the mirror matchup I stand 0-1 against a more aggressive deck which had the Tidecaller and just exploded early.
Warrior was the only matchup where I actually got to use The Black Knight. I won that match.
Against Priest I also stand 1-0, but it was really interesting Quest Priest, so I don't know how the other matchups turn out.
The only match against a mage was a loss unfortunately, since I was not able to deal with two ravaging Mana Wyrms back to back with my pretty bad hand.
I faced one hunter, who was outpaced early and outvalued later. As a hunter main I felt pretty bad for him.
These games were played on Rank 5/4, in case someone is curious.
Overall, I agree with your changes. I feel they helped in some matchups while the cards they replaced were not missed too much. Double Stampeding Kodo certainly finds some value, as it is such a flexible card both with and without Aldor Peacekeeper, and even if played as a vanilla 3/5 not a play that loses you games. It works great with the second copy of Spikeridged Steed, because a 5/11 is such an ugly minion to deal with. I didn't run Murloc Tidecaller in the first place, so I can't miss him and although sometimes my early game/starting hand could use another one drop, I imagine drawing one on turn 10 would hurt much more. Paladin has sufficient comeback/control mechanics to make up for that.
One card I'm not so sure about is The Black Knight. Maybe it's because of the small sample size, maybe it's because he was just deep in my deck in most of the matches, but there was only one game where I got to actually get some value out of it. Of course, if he connects hes a massive tempo swing and can win matches on his own, but does that happen often enough to validate this slot?
@Inverna: I'm pretty sure these three classes are not 50% of the meta right now. Aren't there some statistics about that? Weapon removal has some value right now, every Günther Mage runs Medivh, both warrior archetypes run weapons, Paladin has no less than three archetypes seeing play that include weapons, and while Harrison doesn't get great value against Rogue, Hunter and Shaman, he can still find something to put in a museum there. However, I can't tell his real value for sure, since I don't have him. I run Ooze in my Controladin, where fatigue is a thing, but I don't think this deck needs to think about that. The game is usually decided with at least ~10 cards left.
So, basically, if you're not getting the desired Value from The Black Knight, you can still use that flex spot for something else. Whether that's going to be a Tidecaller or Vinecleaver or angry chicken, that's up to you. :D