Big Shaman
- Last updated Dec 4, 2018 (Boomsday)
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Wild
- 10 Minions
- 18 Spells
- 2 Weapons
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Clone Shaman
- Crafting Cost: 9640
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 12/24/2017 (Kobolds Patch)
- DittoLander
- Registered User
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- 8
- 27
- 86
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Battle Tag:
N/A
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Region:
CN
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Total Deck Rating
335
--------------------- Original Deck December 23rd -------------------------
The main problem of their decks is card draw. Other control decks usually draw their win conditions earlier than you do, which makes losing to them feel bad. My deck solves this problem by introducing a beloved mill combo: Murmuring Elemental + Coldlight Oracle.
Against aggro, Murmuring Elemental can be good in combo with Jinyu Waterspeaker as well for massive healing. With so many healing in your deck, you have a lot of flexibility in dealing with the board and saving your AoEs. With that being said, though, aggro is still the worst matchup of this deck, which is the source of its negative win rate in rank 10ish.
Although this deck won't get you very far in winrate, it's a very hard deck to master. You have to plan your future turns, expect opponent's play, and find chance to lay out your mill and giant combos.
Lastly, this really isn't a very refined deck. I struggled between Drakkari Defender and Feral Spirit. Doomsayer, Harrison Jones, the second Lightning Storm, more card draws such as Far Sight,Novice Engineer, Gnomish Inventor, Mana Tide Totem or even Ice Fishing are being considered.
I really hope you guys can try this deck and if possible, offer some feedback to refine this deck.
Enjoy!
--------------------- First Update December 24th -------------------------
Eventually I gave up the mill combo, since it's definitely underperforming versus aggro, and sometime helps your control opponent draw their win condition.
The new version of the deck went back to use Mana Tide Totem and Thing from Below. Thing from Below usually costs less than Giants because you basically roll a totem each turn before maybe turn 4, and they have lovely Taunt. In combo with Ancestral Spirit, you can stall aggro quite a bit, and in late game, they are great alternative to Snowfury Giant to combo with Greater Sapphire Spellstone.
Another change is to use Earth Elemental. Because we now have less card draw after deleting the mill combo, and we are better against aggro, it's time to add some value to the deck. Earth Elemental is perfect for that purpose. Its 3 mana overload can upgrade your spellstone by itself and if your opponent don't have an answer for it, you can use your spellstone on him next turn, or even better, together with Ancestral Spirit.
Sorry that for realistic reason I have to give up the Murmuring Elemental + Coldlight Oracle combo, which admittedly is a source of fun. But the winrate is getting positive!
--------------------- Second Update December 25th -------------------------
Lightning Storm is removed since it's a dead card versus control. Two Jinyu Waterspeakers are removed because their healing usually can't save you if two of your more efficient Healing Rain can't. I've tried Hot Spring Guardian, but gave it up for the same reason. Harrison Jones is also removed but not replaced by other oozes, because I realized a sad truth in deckbuilding: weak decks don't tech. :)
Instead, I put in 4 additional card draws. Loot Hoarders are decent because even priests are using them. I know two Far Sights are the center of controversy. Sometimes they give you surprise, but other times they are 3 mana draw a card, and you would wish Shaman had Arcane Intellect when that happens. I'll test them more and maybe eventually they will get replaced.
--------------------- Third Update December 25th -------------------------
This third update actually contains two steps. Instead of using the inconsistent [card]Far Sight[/card], I added two [card]Lightning Bolt[/card] after I lost a game in which I had to use [card]Crushing Hand[/card] on a windfury [card]Crackling Razormaw[/card]. Several similar games made me realize that I need early light removal to deal with small but threatening minions that almost every aggro-midrangey deck has.
Then somehow it occurred to me that Shaman's almighty jade spell package may solve that problem. So I replaced 5 card draws -- two Far Sights, two Loot Hoarders, and the underperforming Bloodmage Thalnos -- with the jade package. Thus, arguably all of shaman's great control tools in standard (well, there are not many) are in the deck, providing answers to nearly all kinds of board threat. Though Aya Blackpaw can't control board, her value makes her just another good target for Ancestral Spirit and Greater Sapphire Spellstone.
After several good games with a positive winrate, I feel like the deck is pretty refined right now. Although in this latest version you have less chance to actually play the entire [card]Snowfury Giant[/card] + [card]Ancestral Spirit[/card] + [card]Greater Sapphire Spellstone[/card] combo, some less mighty variants of the combo is usually enough to steal a win, yeah, with Shaman.
--------------------- Fourth Update January 1st -------------------------
The latest update! With a lot of changes! I have been trying different things to solve the lack of tempo problem that someone raised. The first thing you might notice is the replacement of two Doomsayers with a more aggressive combo: Guild Recruiter and Flamewreathed Faceless. Doomsayer is questionable to some, so in this version I tried to remove it. Also, for consistency to pull out the once infamous 477, I reduced one Mana Tide Totem.
The second is the comeback of two Far Sights. Someone has pointed out that Far Sight into Lesser Sapphire Spellstone or Volcano can really win games. As I tried a few games, it works pretty well, so welcome back! Btw, the art of Far Sight is amazing.
Another change is the removal of two Hexes. A lot of times you would find 4 big removals (Crushing Hand and Hex) too much, especially versus aggro paladins. Although Hex is a better card than Crushing Hand in general, but for the purpose of overloading and upgrading spellstones, Crushing Hand is better performing in this deck. Removing both Hexes, though, is still a bold decision. I will evaluate the decision further. Also, one Healing Rain is removed due to the increased aggressiveness of the deck.
--------------------- Fifth Update January 2nd -------------------------
Thanks to @sirzork 's suggestion, I added in two infamous Corridor Creeper to the deck for the tempo they offer. One Far Sight and one Jade Lightning were removed from the list. Far Sight is good when you have nothing to play and 3 mana to spend, but that's about it. Jade Lightning doesn't help with the overload and is sometimes stuck in your hand. I just got a five-game win streak with the new deck list, only losing to a Big Priest. But the rhythm becomes good!
Also, I observed that sometimes on our big turn 5, you struggle between playing Volcano to clear your opponent's board and play Guild Recruiter to establish your own. I almost always ended up playing Guild Recruiter because after Volcano you only have 4 mana next turn which sucks (unless you also have Corridor Creeper). After turn 5, though, you try to compete with your opponent for board presence or even push face damage and force your opponent to exchange your 477. For that purpose, Volcano is usually a dead card. So I replaced one of it with Lightning Storm, which is good when both you and your opponent have board.
I'm also thinking about the only Mana Tide Totem I run. Obviously it interferes with our game plan of pulling 477 with Guild Recruiter, but I don't want Guild Recruiter to be dead after we draw both Flamewreathed Faceless. What about Drakkari Defender? Any ideas?
--------------------- Sixth Update January 14th -------------------------
Recently people are discovering the recruit combo in shaman like I did. Glad that some other people spot some light into this class. I like @Wumbostyle 's list (link: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1022138-new-archetype-recruit-control-shaman), and I almost feel like reducing the spellstone might actually be helpful, because we don't have a lot of card draws and winning by spellstone is getting increasingly rare in my recent piloting. However, because Snowfury Giant and (hopefully) Greater Sapphire Spellstone compose our key combo, I decided to keep it as its original flavor.
In this recent update, I followed @Ex_Aquz 's advice and completely removed jade package to add in two Drakkari Defender, and they are performing really well. Thanks! Second Healing Rain added for its nice ability to heal the high health minions all over in our deck. You wouldn't find them stuck in your hand anymore. Two Far Sights may still be controversial but we do need spell form card draw because you don't want to get Mana Tide Totem out of Guild Recruiter. I'm also trying Fight Promoter. Will update the deck if he works well.
--------------------- Update August 13rd -------------------------
It's been a long time! Since Witchwood I went ahead and played Shudderwock Shaman a lot because it's fun and interesting (not for the opponent though!). Now that Eureka! is released, I think this Giant Shaman thing can be revived again. I play-tested this current list several games at rank 4 and have won 3 straight against warlocks and hunters. Obviously the deck has changed so much that my intro and all other guides are no longer relevant, so I removed them, but I want to keep the revision history because adjusting decklist is plenty of fun, and pain of course. If I found more success with this deck, I'll update the guide.
--------------------- Update September 4th -------------------------
Double Acolyte of Pain seem like an overkill. Most of the time you will have enough card draws, and an extra minion in hand is just an extra burden for playing Eureka!.
A Zap! is added for its much-needed flexibility, but the deck sometimes still feel clunky when facing against aggro decks.
--------------------- Update December 4th -------------------------
Going to try the new tools of the expansion with this theorycraft! Shaman is getting a lot of interesting stuffs, and the most exciting to this Big Shaman deck is a potential draw engine in Spirit of the Frog. The mulligan guide is obviously outdated. Let's wait for me to pilot for a few days before making any promises. Stay in tune and have fun!
Mulligan
Against all other classes: Drakkari Defender, Acolyte of Pain, Far Sight, Storm Chaser, Lesser Sapphire Spellstone. Keep Earth Shock against hunter.
PlayStyle and Matchups
Nice deck! I was playing around with the Shaman spellstone recently and found it to be a lot of fun.
I'm working on an overload quest and remembered getting beat by this deck earlier. I unfortunately don't have the 2x Snowfury Giant. I substituted 2x Arcane Giant and they don't work too badly, usually 6 mana cost when I play them. I stalled aggro just now with Lesser Sapphire Spellstone on Earth Elemental when I had 2 health left. That felt good.
I think Healing Rain is probably the best card shaman got this xpac. Wish we had had that in the basic set.
I feel like Snowfury Giant is a must. But remember that most of the times you don't win by them and you do have Thing from Below for your combo, so you may substitute them by other tempo cards, board clears, or simply card draws.
I have spent a lot of time trying different lists for giant clone shaman as well, and I just wanna ask some stuff about your list. First of all, do you feel 2 crushing hands is too much? 3 overload is great and its an efficient card but having 4 cards in the deck that are effectively hard removal seems excessive. Also I understand your point about Far Sight being too risky, but this deck has really good stall and discounting the right card can win games (win conditions or volcano against aggro). This change I see your reasoning tho, and will have to consider myself. Lastly, I really have to question this deck lacking corridor creeper. This deck is not a tempo deck so a 0 mana 5-5 isn't always useful, but past it being great against aggro it also is the quickest way to combo with the sapphire stone. I could see 6 duplicate targets being excessive but it seems crazy not to run corridor creeper in a deck that has synergy with it and runs so much aoe. I could send you my deck but its results were very lackluster, I began struggling to win games even around rank 13, although my piloting definitely could have been better.
Good luck with this list, and if you do manage to find success with this deck you're a god.
Thank you so much for the careful feedback!! I actually am considering replacing one of the Crushing Hands or Hexes. I will try Corridor Creeper!! It's a worse [card]Thing from Below/card] but it might make it into the list because of the tempo swing.
have done a similar list (without the jades)
the deck isn't actually bad, but Shaman just doesn't have enough Card draw to properly play the long game
Yes, you would wish Shaman had Arcane Intellect. The mill combo Murmuring Elemental + Coldlight Oracle is more entertaining than working unless you face a lot of control decks.
Nice use of the Murmuring elemental/Coldlight Oracle - I have also used it for card draw/mill in some of my evolve and jade decks - I even ran an Ice Fishing for a while just to make sure I could draw them. It is a VERY nice feeling when other control decks mill important cards because they didn't expect it.
I think Shaman will be in a better place in the next expansions especially if we get more tools like Devolve - Hex is pretty amazing against Warlock decks that like to constantly resummon powerful tribal/deathrattle minions like Voidlords, etc. And with Crushing hand, you don't need to constantly have a Hex ready for heavier minions.
What do you think about Flamewreathed Faceless in this deck?
Flamewreathed Faceless is an interesting card. If it were a 3 mana 7/7 overload 3, it would definitely fit into the list. When choosing those overload cards, we want something that either stall the aggro very well (Volcano) or upgrade your spelltone in an efficient way (Crushing Hand, Earth Elemental), which is key to control matchups. That's why Flamewreathed Faceless is less than ideal.
Yeah, I did see a lot of Big Spell Priests on ladder. But once you know their deck well and expect their next turn play, I would say the matchup isn't too bad. They don't have an answer for 4 giants on the board, but you have answers for the big dudes they summon.
Thanks for the cool deck. I had a decent bit of success with it today. Climbed from rank 5 no stars to rank 4 with it. I did end up replacing the doomsayers though with a lightning storm and a far sight. In a lot of cases I found i would just rather have a lightning storm than a doomsayer, plus it's one more card for your spellstone. The far sight was more just because I wanted to try it out. There were a couple games where it saved me by letting me play the spellstone and earth elemental in the same turn or by cycling for that one piece of removal i was missing.
Thank you for trying! I kept Doomsayers in the deck because they are great versus both aggro and control. In control matchups, you can drop it down before your giant combo turn, but you are right that Lightning Storm is a lot better versus paladins and hunters. I will try your version out! Thanks!
I've been wanting to try a deck like this but I'm too lazy to try to make one, hopefully this one works out.
Well, honestly it doesn't work so well as other combo decks such as cube lock and big priest. But it's very rewarding when you are able to win with the giant combo. What's your thoughts on some of my card choices? Any other cards you can think of to be tried?
I played 9 games and ended with a 50% win rate, but in all of those games I've barely even played the spell stones. I feel like if you don't draw those spell stones early you're kind of screwed. I think we're just gonna have to wait for better overload cards if this deck is going to work well, but try adding a Spirit Echo in there.
Yes, that's why you sometimes have to use Hex instead of Crushing Hand, so that you can save it to upgrade your spellstone once you draw it. Spirit Echo is a really cool card, but Ancestral Spirit is obviously better since you don't want to get totems in your hand that potentially mill your own draw. Unless the meta is getting super control-oriented, I feel like two Ancestral Spirits are enough.
So he won 4.5 games?