I started keeping track of my arena runs a few weeks ago and in that time have had 10 runs. I started out pretty well and was at a point where I had a 67% win percentage and set a goal to get to 70%. However, my past few arena runs have been just absolutely horrible with what I thought at the time were decent decks. I figure I could get at least 4-5 wins out of my past 2 decks but I net exactly one win between both. They were Mage and Paladin drafts. I feel like every arena opponent I run into has an answer for everything I drop. It could very well be that I am just a horrible player, but I don't feel as though I'm playing any differently from when I had the 67% win pecentage in arena. Here are my last few decks I've drafted in area.
I know how important the curve is in arena, the time I went 9-3 I had a very good curve as a mage. However, I feel like some drafts I just don't even have an opportunity to draft a good curve due to my options. Please, I'll take any and all advice. I feel like I'm getting worse as an arena player and it's frustrating because it is the format I enjoy the most. I'd really like to get to 12 wins someday too! Thanks for any advice/critique you can provide.
Ok, let me see... the main problem, I suppose, is in the draft and in the execution of the deck.
I have seen the two decks you mentioned, and they are not completely trash, but not very good either. You chose cards that are almost useless, and others that, even being decent, should not have been chosen because there are others that can easily surpass them or do not fit your deck style.
Also, the curve on both decks is unnapropriate...11 4 mana cards on the paladin decks? Are you kidding me man? That does not work at all! There are no good ''curve enders'' on your deck, so if you do not finish the game until turn 7 you almost lost the game. And about the Paladin... why did you choose Light's Justice ? This card is crap!
But even with all those bad cards, your decks are not bad enough to have 0 or 1 wins, as they have really good cards on they that can do excellent trades on the board. However, the bad mana curve, as I mentioned, do not let them reach their maximum potential, and this, plus the lack of drawing power in both decks, probably led you to lose.
Even with all things I mentioned, these decks could have won at least 3 wins. I suppose, then, that your execution made these cards do not worth their mana cost neither a card slot, so a bad deck with a bad execution... that means a loss.
However, I am not here just to point where you failed, but to show you how to become a better player. There are some things that you can do to improve your deck-building, card-knowledge and playing skills that for sure will make you win a lot more in your arena runs. I will list you some:
Watchingstreams and championships - Watching pro players (like Trump and Kripparian) playing is a really good way to improve your playing skills, as they explain their decisions, and your deckbuilding/drafting skills depending on which mode they are playing. Watching championships is really good too, as the casters try to think of all possible plays that the players can do with their hands, helping you to evaluate how good or bad any of the plays actually is.
Reading guides - Many players lose a lot because they do not understand the game properly. Some sites (like Ice Veins and LiquidHearth) provide guides about all the topics you can imagine, including drafting, crafting, card evaluation, decisions in play, mana curve, deck building, etc, so new or unexperienced players can learn how the game really work.
Playing Constructed - Playing constructed is a good way to train to the Arena mode, as you can test different decks and cards and improve your skills of making good decisions in play to make your cards reach their maximum value.
Knowing the cards and mechanics - This is a really important step to win, as knowing the cards the game has before they are actually played gives you the oportunity to predict your opponent plays, so you can prepare yourself to counter them or try to avoid situations on which they can be worthy. A good way to get into this is playing a lot and consulting card databases, as the one in this site.
Knowing how to use and avoid combos - Combos are the soul of this game, and they are the best way to make cards reach all they potential. Due to how powerful they are, it is essential to know how to use and prevent combos. That been said, the best way to find out what cards have synergy with which others is watching them being used : a funny way to do it is to watch videos about funny/lucky plays that include combos ( try 2ppressstart or Hearth Trolden on Youtube) , or you can also try making combos by yourself on Constructed mode .
What it looks like, you chose whatever Arena Value told you was the highest value card, and in the process chose some really crappy cards. Arena Value is a tool, not a be-all end-all.
Take pick #12 in your Paladin deck. You had the choice of Southsea Deckhand, Light's Justice and Humility. None of those are great cards, but Light's Justice is a NEVER PICK, even if Arena Value is telling you it's a higher rating than the other two. You're going to take more damage to the face using Light's Justice than dealing damage. I probably would have chose Humility. You had no weapons at that point, so getting the beneficial charge out of Southsea Deckhand wouldn't happen. At least with Humility, even though not a great card, you can use it to slow down, gimp one of your opponent's big minions in the mid- to late-game.
Your curve in the Paladin was almost okay. You had the right number of 2 and 3 cost minions. You were way overloaded with 4 cost cards, though. You needed to decrease the number of 4 costs you had, and increase the 6+ cost minions by a few. I like to have 4 to 5 6+ cost minions in a deck for the late game. Arena is usually all about control, so you need minions into the late game if you intend to keep/take control of the game.
Also, the curve on both decks is unnapropriate...11 4 mana cards on the paladin decks? Are you kidding me man? That does not work at all! There are no good ''curve enders'' on your deck, so if you do not finish the game until turn 7 you almost lost the game. And about the Paladin... why did you choose Light's Justice ? This card is crap!
Thanks a lot for your input it is appreciated. In regards to the bad cards I chose, what would have been better options for those picks and why? I'm still trying to understand and come to grips with how to choose my deck. I suppose I need to watch my curve more. But then again in the paladin deck I'm not sure which 4 mana cards I should have NOT chosen. Maybe the 29th pick I should have chosen the Mind Control Tech since I already had a decent number of taunts in the deck? The other card in that lot is just another 4 drop and a weaker one at that is it doesn't affect the board at all and can be bad if played with few cards in your hand. Would 2 Mind Control Techs be okay for this deck? At the 17th pick in the Paladin, would it have been correct to take the Scarlet Crusader instead of the Truesilver? I don't know but it seems whenever I play arena a Truesilve is one of the best Paladin cards I can take, regardless of curve. (Maybe I'm wrong here) Maybe picks 6 and 11 should have been different cards? At that point in the draft though, I have no idea how many 4 drops I'm going to actually end up with so those are just value picks right?
And in regards to the bad choices in the Mage deck, on my 6th pick is an Arcane Explosion better than the Rive Crocolisk? I tend to stay away from Dread Corsairs unless I'm playing a weapon class so I assume that isn't even worthy of discussion here? Another reason I chose the Crocolisk is because I struggle with having enough two drops, so when I feel like my card choices are bad vs bad, I usually end preferring the two drops unless my curve is already ok at that point. What about pick #12 with the Bloodfen, better option there? And the Gnomish Inventor at the #24 pick, I'm pretty sure I had to take that card opposed to the other to, no?
What it looks like, you chose whatever Arena Value told you was the highest value card, and in the process chose some really crappy cards. Arena Value is a tool, not a be-all end-all.
Take pick #12 in your Paladin deck. You had the choice of Southsea Deckhand, Light's Justice and Humility. None of those are great cards, but Light's Justice is a NEVER PICK, even if Arena Value is telling you it's a higher rating than the other two. You're going to take more damage to the face using Light's Justice than dealing damage. I probably would have chose Humility. You had no weapons at that point, so getting the beneficial charge out of Southsea Deckhand wouldn't happen. At least with Humility, even though not a great card, you can use it to slow down, gimp one of your opponent's big minions in the mid- to late-game.
Your curve in the Paladin was almost okay. You had the right number of 2 and 3 cost minions. You were way overloaded with 4 cost cards, though. You needed to decrease the number of 4 costs you had, and increase the 6+ cost minions by a few. I like to have 4 to 5 6+ cost minions in a deck for the late game. Arena is usually all about control, so you need minions into the late game if you intend to keep/take control of the game.
Thanks for the input on the Light's Justice vs Humility. This is exactly the kind of input I am looking for. In your opinion, where are some places I could have cut down on my 4 drops in the Paladin deck? (See my post above) I'm struggling to find areas where I should have chose different with the 4 drops. Thanks again for the input!
Thanks for the input on the Light's Justice vs Humility. This is exactly the kind of input I am looking for. In your opinion, where are some places I could have cut down on my 4 drops in the Paladin deck? (See my post above) I'm struggling to find areas where I should have chose different with the 4 drops. Thanks again for the input!
Looking over your deck, there's not a whole lot you could have done. When you had 6+ cost minions, you were usually presented with a better choice in a lower cost minion. In terms of 4 cost versus 6+ cost, I think you did about as well as you could do, given the choices. At least you had Blessing of Kings, which allowed you to turn 4 cost minions in to much bigger threats.
You probably already know this, but never play Blessing of Kings on a minion you've just laid down on the board, unless it has charge. (And by never, I mean, very rarely ... there are special circumstances where you might want to have a big threat on the board immediately, even if your opponent might remove it on their turn before it can attack.)
The most important part of drafting is a good curve. Always have a card to play which fits the mana you have available. I've had mage runs with 3 flamestrikes, 3 fireballs, some frostbolts and it meant nothing because I too few two drops and late game cards. I've gotten to 12 wins with mage with zero flamestrikes, but I had a great curve.
I'd say curve>minion quality after you reach the 15th pick.
Thanks a lot Pilleri, I really appreciate it! Looking back I think that is definitely the biggest flaw in my area runs is that I just take the best card (either perceived or what arena value tells me) and look at it stand alone. I need to learn what type of deck I have started and try and pick more cards that fit that type. Often times all I do is look at curve and the best card, while ignoring synergy and playstyle of the deck. Thanks a bunch!
Actually I don't see much of a problem with your drafting. Yes some picks are not precise but they are mostly rather minor. 10 runs is small sample size but 67% is pretty decent so I am guessing your play is generally okay. Would be nice to video capture your play to see if we can pick up something on that. 70% is "not just 3%" or 3 games out of 100, but actually about your quality of play and whether your play is precise such that you can win those 3 games out of 100 that are 50/50 close games. Also bad runs are quite normal in Arena (applies to all 0 sum games) and you need to be able to play through that.
Mage:
Pick 17: Mirror entity > Tauren warrior. Reason is mirror entity will at worst copy a 2 drop which is basically a tauren warrior, but with upside. As for the enrage.. well if you spend 5 mana in your turn to do that I don't know what to say.
Pick 22: stormwind knight >> raid leader. raid leader is really meh for mage. Stormwind knight is decent.
Pick 26: Ogre Magi >> rifleman. Ogre magi gets bonus points for Mage (you don't have a lot of spells but just enough. Even as vanilla 4/4 I would give it more than 43 points). Bigger problem is the rifleman rather suck.
Pick 29: Imp master >> cobra. I would not give cobra 76 points as it is quite a conditional card. The card works when your opponent happen to have 1 big creature and no removal and nothing else. Certainly not over imp master or violet teacher.
Paladin:
Pick 12: Light's justice I agree with. It is good in the sense that your hero suddenly acquired something like a fireblast, which is an extra resource and is a threat. As for the above posters that is concerned about health, okay I will hit the opponent 3 times for 3 damage and only finish 1 creature with it. That sounds pretty good to me for 1 mana as the net result is we finished 1 creature with it. This weapon deals a total of 4 damage in the game no matter how you cut it, and the more important thing is that it is a threat and allows trade up possibilities. In comparison humility is a nice to have but not as good.
pick 19: blessing of might > humility. Thing with humility is it does not help you in trading up, while blessing of might does. Especially relevant to paladins and hero ability.
break after 15 cards -> you should realize there is a gaping hole at your 3 drops and at your 5+ drops. If you use "standard midrange mana curve template" as a basis, and halve the values since you are at the halfway point of the draft: 1 drop - recommended 2, half is 1, you have 2. Arcane Missiles counts as a 1 cost spell, you can use it whenever you have 1 extra mana and opponent has any minion in play. Absolutely no need to pick any more of these! 2 drop - recommended 5, half is 2.5, you have 3. looking good. 3 drop - recommended 6, half is 3, you have 1. You need to focus on picking these. 4 drop - recommended 7, half is 3.5, you have 2. Spells do not count, Fireball and Polymorph are not drops. You need to focus on picking more of these. 5 drop - recommended 5, half is 2.5, you have 2. You need to pick more of these. 6 drop - recommended 3, half is 1.5, you have 1. Spells do not count, Blizzard is not a drop. You need to pick more of these.
7+ cost - recommended 2, half is 1, you have 0. Flamestrike does not count, it is not a drop. You need to focus on picking more of these.
I have some problem with the application of this template. The template adds perfect to 30 cards but then you have cards that "don't count"?! The net result of the analysis is that you went through 15 cards and you are short on almost every mana slot (since you only counted 11 cards), which I fail to understand how that would help your drafting? What if only 8 cards counted after 15 picks, wouldn't that mean he is basically short on everything?
A 7 mana card is a 7 mana card no matter how you cut it. You either have to count it or have a better system to look at the draft? The numbers have to adjust accordingly and cannot add up to 30 as there will always be plenty of cards that do not count!
This guide is on midrange arena (I assume that is his favourite playstyle), but we have to realize there is also control and aggro. This is a spectrum with aggro on one side and control on the other. Both sides have merits and I do not have any statistics on the ideal spots of the spectrum (I could ask Elias from arenamastery for some advanced stats like win rate vs average deck cost). This is quite significant because suppose you perfectly achieved the "midrange arena" objective ("perfectly achieve" like never happens in arena), is that one of the ideal spots and by how much? As far as I know you can win anywhere on this spectrum within reasonable limits and drafting requires flexibility. Paladin is a very flexible class and the draft can result in effective decks for any of the 3.
Looking at midrange here, the numbers in the guide are good in marking the baseline, though for simplicity I would just remember it as 4-6 in each of the 4 categories, and this is also affected by class significantly. This needs expansion and I see in the notes that seem to be his intention.
Thinking about my personal playstyle I aim for midrange only for paladin (my favorite class). This is natural due to the amount of 4s and a good deck just happens to be in the center of the spectrum. For non-paladin I find that I would shift to either left (aggro) or right (control) because I want the deck to either rush well (hunter, warrior and warlock are all way to the left, rogue is also to the left but not as much) or control well (Druid is all the way to the right. Priest follows. Shaman slightly to the right from center). For these classes if you midrange you could fall into the situation where your deck does not rush well and your late game isn't good either. That is the cons for midrange as it is jack of all trades right in the center of the spectrum.
As for mage... all this doesn't really matter she just need lots of quality spells.
I started keeping track of my arena runs a few weeks ago and in that time have had 10 runs. I started out pretty well and was at a point where I had a 67% win percentage and set a goal to get to 70%. However, my past few arena runs have been just absolutely horrible with what I thought at the time were decent decks. I figure I could get at least 4-5 wins out of my past 2 decks but I net exactly one win between both. They were Mage and Paladin drafts. I feel like every arena opponent I run into has an answer for everything I drop. It could very well be that I am just a horrible player, but I don't feel as though I'm playing any differently from when I had the 67% win pecentage in arena. Here are my last few decks I've drafted in area.
Mage Deck - http://arenavalue.com/s/nMWbOI - went 1-3
Paladin Deck - http://arenavalue.com/s/5FNy3M - went 0-3
I know how important the curve is in arena, the time I went 9-3 I had a very good curve as a mage. However, I feel like some drafts I just don't even have an opportunity to draft a good curve due to my options. Please, I'll take any and all advice. I feel like I'm getting worse as an arena player and it's frustrating because it is the format I enjoy the most. I'd really like to get to 12 wins someday too! Thanks for any advice/critique you can provide.
Ok, let me see... the main problem, I suppose, is in the draft and in the execution of the deck.
I have seen the two decks you mentioned, and they are not completely trash, but not very good either. You chose cards that are almost useless, and others that, even being decent, should not have been chosen because there are others that can easily surpass them or do not fit your deck style.
About the mage deck, Bloodfen Raptor , River Crocolisk , Gnomish Inventor , Ironforge Rifleman and Stormwind Knight do very little to you in the battlefield, so you should never choose them unless you have no better options, and Imp Master , Emperor Cobra and Raid Leader do not fit at all with your deck, so there are no reasons for them to be chosen.
Also, the curve on both decks is unnapropriate...11 4 mana cards on the paladin decks? Are you kidding me man? That does not work at all! There are no good ''curve enders'' on your deck, so if you do not finish the game until turn 7 you almost lost the game. And about the Paladin... why did you choose Light's Justice ? This card is crap!
But even with all those bad cards, your decks are not bad enough to have 0 or 1 wins, as they have really good cards on they that can do excellent trades on the board. However, the bad mana curve, as I mentioned, do not let them reach their maximum potential, and this, plus the lack of drawing power in both decks, probably led you to lose.
Even with all things I mentioned, these decks could have won at least 3 wins. I suppose, then, that your execution made these cards do not worth their mana cost neither a card slot, so a bad deck with a bad execution... that means a loss.
However, I am not here just to point where you failed, but to show you how to become a better player. There are some things that you can do to improve your deck-building, card-knowledge and playing skills that for sure will make you win a lot more in your arena runs. I will list you some:
So, I hope I have been useful :) Bye
What it looks like, you chose whatever Arena Value told you was the highest value card, and in the process chose some really crappy cards. Arena Value is a tool, not a be-all end-all.
Take pick #12 in your Paladin deck. You had the choice of Southsea Deckhand, Light's Justice and Humility. None of those are great cards, but Light's Justice is a NEVER PICK, even if Arena Value is telling you it's a higher rating than the other two. You're going to take more damage to the face using Light's Justice than dealing damage. I probably would have chose Humility. You had no weapons at that point, so getting the beneficial charge out of Southsea Deckhand wouldn't happen. At least with Humility, even though not a great card, you can use it to slow down, gimp one of your opponent's big minions in the mid- to late-game.
Your curve in the Paladin was almost okay. You had the right number of 2 and 3 cost minions. You were way overloaded with 4 cost cards, though. You needed to decrease the number of 4 costs you had, and increase the 6+ cost minions by a few. I like to have 4 to 5 6+ cost minions in a deck for the late game. Arena is usually all about control, so you need minions into the late game if you intend to keep/take control of the game.
Poetic.
Thanks a lot for your input it is appreciated. In regards to the bad cards I chose, what would have been better options for those picks and why? I'm still trying to understand and come to grips with how to choose my deck. I suppose I need to watch my curve more. But then again in the paladin deck I'm not sure which 4 mana cards I should have NOT chosen. Maybe the 29th pick I should have chosen the Mind Control Tech since I already had a decent number of taunts in the deck? The other card in that lot is just another 4 drop and a weaker one at that is it doesn't affect the board at all and can be bad if played with few cards in your hand. Would 2 Mind Control Techs be okay for this deck? At the 17th pick in the Paladin, would it have been correct to take the Scarlet Crusader instead of the Truesilver? I don't know but it seems whenever I play arena a Truesilve is one of the best Paladin cards I can take, regardless of curve. (Maybe I'm wrong here) Maybe picks 6 and 11 should have been different cards? At that point in the draft though, I have no idea how many 4 drops I'm going to actually end up with so those are just value picks right?
And in regards to the bad choices in the Mage deck, on my 6th pick is an Arcane Explosion better than the Rive Crocolisk? I tend to stay away from Dread Corsairs unless I'm playing a weapon class so I assume that isn't even worthy of discussion here? Another reason I chose the Crocolisk is because I struggle with having enough two drops, so when I feel like my card choices are bad vs bad, I usually end preferring the two drops unless my curve is already ok at that point. What about pick #12 with the Bloodfen, better option there? And the Gnomish Inventor at the #24 pick, I'm pretty sure I had to take that card opposed to the other to, no?
Thanks for the input on the Light's Justice vs Humility. This is exactly the kind of input I am looking for. In your opinion, where are some places I could have cut down on my 4 drops in the Paladin deck? (See my post above) I'm struggling to find areas where I should have chose different with the 4 drops. Thanks again for the input!
Looking over your deck, there's not a whole lot you could have done. When you had 6+ cost minions, you were usually presented with a better choice in a lower cost minion. In terms of 4 cost versus 6+ cost, I think you did about as well as you could do, given the choices. At least you had Blessing of Kings, which allowed you to turn 4 cost minions in to much bigger threats.
You probably already know this, but never play Blessing of Kings on a minion you've just laid down on the board, unless it has charge. (And by never, I mean, very rarely ... there are special circumstances where you might want to have a big threat on the board immediately, even if your opponent might remove it on their turn before it can attack.)
Poetic.
Thanks so much for the post Pilleri! I'm going to read through this a few times and try to digest this apply it to my next draft. Thanks again!
The most important part of drafting is a good curve. Always have a card to play which fits the mana you have available. I've had mage runs with 3 flamestrikes, 3 fireballs, some frostbolts and it meant nothing because I too few two drops and late game cards. I've gotten to 12 wins with mage with zero flamestrikes, but I had a great curve.
I'd say curve>minion quality after you reach the 15th pick.
Thanks a lot Pilleri, I really appreciate it! Looking back I think that is definitely the biggest flaw in my area runs is that I just take the best card (either perceived or what arena value tells me) and look at it stand alone. I need to learn what type of deck I have started and try and pick more cards that fit that type. Often times all I do is look at curve and the best card, while ignoring synergy and playstyle of the deck. Thanks a bunch!
Actually I don't see much of a problem with your drafting. Yes some picks are not precise but they are mostly rather minor. 10 runs is small sample size but 67% is pretty decent so I am guessing your play is generally okay. Would be nice to video capture your play to see if we can pick up something on that. 70% is "not just 3%" or 3 games out of 100, but actually about your quality of play and whether your play is precise such that you can win those 3 games out of 100 that are 50/50 close games. Also bad runs are quite normal in Arena (applies to all 0 sum games) and you need to be able to play through that.
Mage:
Pick 17: Mirror entity > Tauren warrior. Reason is mirror entity will at worst copy a 2 drop which is basically a tauren warrior, but with upside. As for the enrage.. well if you spend 5 mana in your turn to do that I don't know what to say.
Pick 22: stormwind knight >> raid leader. raid leader is really meh for mage. Stormwind knight is decent.
Pick 26: Ogre Magi >> rifleman. Ogre magi gets bonus points for Mage (you don't have a lot of spells but just enough. Even as vanilla 4/4 I would give it more than 43 points). Bigger problem is the rifleman rather suck.
Pick 29: Imp master >> cobra. I would not give cobra 76 points as it is quite a conditional card. The card works when your opponent happen to have 1 big creature and no removal and nothing else. Certainly not over imp master or violet teacher.
Paladin:
Pick 12: Light's justice I agree with. It is good in the sense that your hero suddenly acquired something like a fireblast, which is an extra resource and is a threat. As for the above posters that is concerned about health, okay I will hit the opponent 3 times for 3 damage and only finish 1 creature with it. That sounds pretty good to me for 1 mana as the net result is we finished 1 creature with it. This weapon deals a total of 4 damage in the game no matter how you cut it, and the more important thing is that it is a threat and allows trade up possibilities. In comparison humility is a nice to have but not as good.
pick 19: blessing of might > humility. Thing with humility is it does not help you in trading up, while blessing of might does. Especially relevant to paladins and hero ability.
7+ cost - recommended 2, half is 1, you have 0. Flamestrike does not count, it is not a drop. You need to focus on picking more of these.
I have some problem with the application of this template. The template adds perfect to 30 cards but then you have cards that "don't count"?! The net result of the analysis is that you went through 15 cards and you are short on almost every mana slot (since you only counted 11 cards), which I fail to understand how that would help your drafting? What if only 8 cards counted after 15 picks, wouldn't that mean he is basically short on everything?
A 7 mana card is a 7 mana card no matter how you cut it. You either have to count it or have a better system to look at the draft? The numbers have to adjust accordingly and cannot add up to 30 as there will always be plenty of cards that do not count!
This guide is on midrange arena (I assume that is his favourite playstyle), but we have to realize there is also control and aggro. This is a spectrum with aggro on one side and control on the other. Both sides have merits and I do not have any statistics on the ideal spots of the spectrum (I could ask Elias from arenamastery for some advanced stats like win rate vs average deck cost). This is quite significant because suppose you perfectly achieved the "midrange arena" objective ("perfectly achieve" like never happens in arena), is that one of the ideal spots and by how much? As far as I know you can win anywhere on this spectrum within reasonable limits and drafting requires flexibility. Paladin is a very flexible class and the draft can result in effective decks for any of the 3.
Looking at midrange here, the numbers in the guide are good in marking the baseline, though for simplicity I would just remember it as 4-6 in each of the 4 categories, and this is also affected by class significantly. This needs expansion and I see in the notes that seem to be his intention.
Thinking about my personal playstyle I aim for midrange only for paladin (my favorite class). This is natural due to the amount of 4s and a good deck just happens to be in the center of the spectrum. For non-paladin I find that I would shift to either left (aggro) or right (control) because I want the deck to either rush well (hunter, warrior and warlock are all way to the left, rogue is also to the left but not as much) or control well (Druid is all the way to the right. Priest follows. Shaman slightly to the right from center). For these classes if you midrange you could fall into the situation where your deck does not rush well and your late game isn't good either. That is the cons for midrange as it is jack of all trades right in the center of the spectrum.
As for mage... all this doesn't really matter she just need lots of quality spells.