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It's interesting how players shying away from aggro classes (mostly due to the drop in Rogues) is now responsible for an even bigger shift towards heavier, more controlling decks.
As such, Priests are much stronger in this meta, since the only viable strategy against a mind control-heavy deck is to kill them by turn 8-9 max.
The current tier list needs an update to reflect the Meta.
Soon. :)
Legendaries are strong but not broken.
Learn to pick silences and removal higher in your list, and you'll be fine.
EDIT: also, I have won countless games to my opponent using Hex on a turn 4 shieldmasta. If it's your one Hex in the deck and you burn it this early, then it's on you to die to my Tirion or Deathwing later on, isn't it?
Hey guys, I won't add this to the tier list itself, because it's not statistical data, just personal feeling, but class picks in tier one go like this for me:
Shaman first pick, always. Second is Mage, close enough. Hunter and Paladin come after.
What makes Shamans and Mages so strong compared to the rest of the field, enough that it could warrant a future nerf?
For Mages, Kirin Tor Mage + Secrets is too fast, too hard to deal with. Mage is by default a control class, and that combo just isn't on script. Flamestrike is super strong, but it requires you to hold on until late game. KT Mage + Mirror Entity on turn 3 is really tough to play around. If you drop a small minion to play the ME, you lose card advantage to the KTM. If you drop something to deal with the KTM, Jaina gets it too. :/ I've won and lost many games on the back of that play. The rest of the class is strong, but balanced imho.
For Shamans, the problem is more complicated. The class is insanely powerful atm because it has everything. Cheap weapons, minion generation (better than paladin for control decks), universal minion removal (Hex), great minions (Windspeakers, Fire Elemental), fantastic rares (Earth Elem, Feral Wolves, Lightning storm)... So what to do? A couple of things: I'd consider allowing Hex (and Polymorph) to be silenced so you get your big minion back. It's also interesting to note that the 2 classes affected by such a nerf would incidentally be the two best (according to me, of course, Blizzard may have data to show otherwise). Fire Elemental is a little too good at 6/5 and should be 6/4 imho, so that he can be dealt with Eviscerate / Heroic Strike (ouch) / Swipe / Shadowbolt. Currently, it's too ofter 1 card for 3 cards, and it's too much for a common.
That's what I would consider. What do you think? What balances changes would you look at if you were on the dev team?
It's great to read that. Hope "Boss" reads it :)
Updated for the current patch! (on October 9th)
Also, a question for you guys: with Miss Moneypenny, we're wondering if you'd be interested in our thoughts on Legendary cards in the Arena, and what to choose. Of course it's deck dependent, but we frequently struggle with choices like "Ragnaros or Alextrasza?" "Sylvanas or Onyxia?" etc. We think you may be asking yourselves the same questions, and we're looking for a solid way to answer them. Let us know if this something you'd like to see, or if you think it's idiotic, or if you have any ideas / suggestions about the format, etc.
Laterz!
Hey Berlitz, thanks for sharing your experience of your mage draft. My experience recently has differed a lot from yours, so I thought I'd share some deck ideas here. (I'm currently in my second mage draft in a row, the first one went 9-0, the second one I'm 7-0 in)
My strategy going into the Arena as a mage is to focus on control. The most important cards are AoE damage and Polymorphs. AoE damage in order to get card advantage wiping the enemy's board (typically, you want 2, max 3 Flamestrikes, and Blizzard if it ever pops in your draft). You want to pick those above everything else.
Second, you need polymorphs, and you need to save those for super-high HP minions that will wreck you (Legendaries / anything 8/8, etc.) It's very important you get at least one of those, and as many as 3 or 4 won't hurt you.
So those 2 first types of card you need to pick in top priority.
Then you move to Fireballs, because yeah, it's an awesome card, very versatile, and I can't count the games I've won on a normal attack + 2 fireballs for the win.
What about minions then?
First rule: get taunt minions.
Second rule: get more taunt minions.
Seriously, the reason you get smashed by Rogue or Hunters is because by the time you get to flame strike their board, you're almost dead. The only way to break them is to constantly oppose their force with taunt minions so that they can't bypass you. Get Shieldmastas in priority, but don't underestimate the 1/4 taunt ape either. There is no limit to the amount of taunt minions you should have - beside luck in the draft - so feel free to go nuts there.
Whenever possible, get the "good" healers. The 3/3 that heals 3 for 3 is very versatile. Darkscale healer isn't bad though. Again, pick taunt minions higher.
Get the minions who can give taunt to your minions when you find them.
Don't rush into a low curve. Your hero power lets you deal with early threats until turn 4 in most games. Do not underestimate cards like cone of cold and Frozen elemental. They are very nice ways to gain some tempo back.
So, in short, pick by order of importance: Blizzard > Flamestrike > Polymorph > Fireball > Pyroblast > High hp taunt minions > Acidic Swamp Ooze if you don't have any = low hp taunt minions = healer cards > freezing cards.
For play: keep your cards as much as possible. Deal with the opposing threats while trying to remain above 20hp. Save a polymorph in hand at all times for end game threats. Focus on using the least amount of cards to remove the opponent board. Use your power often. The goal is to exhaust your opponent's cards before yours, then kill him with a couple minions (yeah, a control deck).
Hope that helps ! :)
It's really great that you did stats on your games. I am well impressed with your paladin win rate, which I was only able to achieve on Rogue or Mage so far.
Can you tell us a little bit more about your mindset going into the draft? Are you focusing on taunt minions with healers and fat late game monsters? On smallies with blessings? Or do you go for as many divine shields as possible? What does your curve look like on a typical "winner" deck?
Original post fully re-written and updated to reflect beta experience. (also, a couple of bug reports and a small favour asked of our US beta friends)
Hope you guys like it!
Love,
- ND
I do suggest exactly that, yes. The arena is won as much in the field as in the draft, if not more.
Sorry to hear that. To answer your question:
Yes, the simulator is good for learning how to draft, but only to figure out what you can statistically hope to build. What does that mean? That mean that unless you already know what cards are good, what's a good mana curve, etc. It won't help you. It will also fail to help you if you make many mistakes in your games. Let me give you an example - not for boasting, but because I think it's relevant. Yesterday I had a bit of gold surplus so my friend and I decided to to pick classes that we weren't playing much, just to test them out again. I went Warlock, and drafted a very aggressive, very low curve deck with tons of demons. First game I realized how bad this was going to be compared to the same strategy but with a hunter deck. I lost that match. Next game I won, purely because my opponent misplayed. Next game, guess what? I lost again. I was so disappointed, and firmly resolved never to play Warlock again in Arena. BUT! I eventually played against people making mistakes, every game, small ones, sometimes big ones, and that allowed me to come back from 1-2 to... 8-2! Sadly, my last opponent had a much better (paladin) deck, and was a good player, so I finished at 8-3. Why am I telling you this?
Because being good in Arena starts by playing your games right. You need to have a plan to win. Are you burning the guy down quickly? Do you need to stabilize the board to let your card advantage win for you? Is it a good idea to play that weapon now given there are 4 others in your deck? What is your opponent going to statistically do if you do this? Does that mage have flamestrike in her hand? You need to figure all that, and the simulator can help you with some of those questions by giving you a better idea of what each class arena deck looks like. But it won't take you all the way. For that, you need to practice playing, again, and again, and again. :)
Good luck!
Some no one has mentioned yet, that are very solid picks in any deck:
Shattered Sun Cleric
Faerie Dragon
Hi guys, me again with another Arena Deck. This time I was given a choice between Priest, Hunter, and Warrior. Because I feel that currently my perception of hunters (simulator-based) might be a bit off, I went for Rexxar. Here's the deck I built.
As you see, it's pretty straightforward. The curve is not that great, but there are ton of solutions. Basically a third of the deck is either Animal Companion (just incredible), or Deadly shot (another incredible card to deal with thos "lucky" decks that have epic giants or even legendaries (yes, you do meet them on your way to 9 wins :)), or Explosive trap, with is another card I feel is very undervalued (it did wonders for me).
I went 9-1 with this. The last two games (1 loss, 1 win) were against the same Rogue opponent (Meow, don't know if he reads these forums, if you do, gratz on your deck, I assume you went 9 wins too :p). Game one, he pulled the sickest opening I've seen in Arena so far. I started. Nothing. He goes Coin, into Defias Ringleader, Shadowstep, put the ringleader back again for another 2/1 for a whopping 6 attack power on board on the first turn.
I played an Explosive Trap and watched them melt. Then his deck destroyed me :]
Game 2 I came out much stronger with coin into Animal Companion, then another one on turn 3. He had a slow opening and my hand was full of [card]Deadly Shot[/cast].
I'm not going to bore you with games all day, but since this was a successful deck, I imagine you guys might want to know more about deckbuilding, what worked and what didn't.
Deck-building mindset:
1- pick strong solutions first. Deadly Shot > Explosive Shot > Explosive Trap > Kill Command > Arcane Shot
2- Pick beasts much higher than other cards, but not at all cost. For example, don't pick Timber Wolf over an awesome common like Shattered Sun Cleric.
3- Weapons win games, especially Eaglehorn Bow with secrets all over the deck.
Play mindset:
1- The deck has a very strong presence in turns 2-6. That's when you need to win most of your games. You need to establish early board advantage. Then, you control his small threats with your creatures, before removing the big guy with Deadly Shot.
2- You need to attack the hero as much as possible. I think Hunter qualifies as "aggro-control", meaning you're winning on tempo, even with just one Animal Companion, by removing his threats and attacking your opponent's face. Keep in mind Rexxar's hero power is awesome to finish opponents off.
How to win against this deck?
1- You need to either go faster than him (with super fast decks like Rogue / possibly Warrior, or even Warlock... No, don't play Warlock in Arena, it's too risky :)) or you need to control him hard (with a Mage, or maybe a Paladin).
2- When you need to make decisions, mind your total HP. If there's a board, and you're under 15, consider yourself in trouble.
3- Keep your damn solutions for his beasts!! 2 of my opponents threw direct damage at me just for kicks. You lose games on bad plays like this.
Guys, hope you found this interesting, feel free to leave feedback of course!
Love,
- ND
Hey, thanks ;)
So, I finally got my EU key, and I'm in the beta. Currently playing - when work allows - my first Arena with a Mage deck. (2-0 so far, wish me luck!)
I'll be posting my deck soon, and of course, you can expect some updates to the tier list. If some of you are playing the arena a lot, I'd love to hear your thoughts on class balance: I certainly don't claim to have it all figured out, and intend to revisit all of my current reflections.
One thing though, please argue your points with observations. If you tell me "OMG NOOB WARLOCKS ROCK IN ARENA" that's not quite as helpful as "I've built that deck [link] and went 9-0. I feel the simulator might be off because [X] compared to the game, etc.
Thanks for the kind words everybody, and talk to you soon!
EDIT: Here is the Arena deck I'm currently competing with. I consider it "OK". Meaning on a scale of mage arena decks from 1-10 I'd say it's a 6, maybe a 7.
I'm 8 / 2 at the moment. I have lost one game to a super fast beast-hunter with all the goodies in it. It's actually disturbing that the guy had 2 of each staples. We met again and I won a very close game. Great deck. The other game I lost was to an incredible series of epic cards (Sea Giant, Faceless Manipulator[card] into... brace for it... [card]Ragnaros the Firelord!!) No regrets on that one, I don't have the deck to compete. Most of the other games were smooth rides. Control the early game, and soon, the card advantage of drawing + AoE wins you the game.
EDIT: lost last game. 8-3 with this deck, which is not bad, I guess.
A few observations (a reminder to myself as I brew a new version of the tier list):
- give Rexxar a point or 2 for his hero power that just wins games.
- there seems to be more rare / epics in beta than on the simulator. Don't know if Flux reads this, but it may be something for you guys to watch. Got no data (punz!) to back it up though, just a feeling so far.
In all of our playtest, we have never complained of losing a game because of going first or second.
To me, that's not evidence that there isn't a problem (causality =/= correlation), but it is an empirical argument that if there is a problem there, it really is a very niche problem.
As far as I'm concerned, the coin is well balanced, and a very good solution to the problem it attempts to solve. Well done Hearthstone design team! Much better job that your "we don't like Europe" beta release team ;)
Ohiguize! I thought I'd enter as well!
Much love,
ND