It's really a great tempo swing, but warlocks doesn't have enough heal to make this viable.
Or useful spells. You can't just put this into your deck and 1-2 spells that work with it. It would be WAY too inconsistent and onwards from turn whatever, you don't really need it to begin with. You would gimp your deck for an occasional tempo swing - a mild one at that every 4 games or whatever. It's also a terrible top deck.
In Standard, there are always cards in one expansion that deal heavily with what's in the next. Black Rock Mountain had Lava Shock because The Grand Tournament had Ancestral Knowledge and Elemental Destruction. TGT had Totem Golem because LoE had Tunnel Trogg.
Heck, Discolock is only a thing because it's had a ton of cards added from a bunch of different expansions that add up to it.
You'll also note that we are getting a ton of cards that support different archetypes in a bunch of the classes. Priest is getting combo pieces with their legendary and Radiant Elemental for some odd reason, despite it supporting Deathrattle for it's quest. Rogue just got a bunch of stuff for Miracle, but Bounce and Burgle got new tools as well. Shaman is all over the place with Murloc support (aggro) Elemental (Midrange if I ever saw it) and all the obvious control tools.
We're getting a Bloodlock this year. If bloodlock is good or pieces of it just fit in elsewhere, that remains to be seen.
I dont think this one is very good right now. The effect is absurdly powerful but I cant see a way to really get a huge advantage out of it in standard. Maybe with Reno in wild? Keep this card in mind when future sets are revealed.
I dont think this one is very good right now. The effect is absurdly powerful but I cant see a way to really get a huge advantage out of it in standard. Maybe with Reno in wild? Keep this card in mind when future sets are revealed.
The same thing has been said about Cho'Gall - and 2 releases later - still not a single good spell in sight. As long as these effects are around we will also not get one. So not only are these cards wasted on warlock BECAUSE we have no good synergistic spells, but due to them we also don't get any good spells in the near future. A Shit-Catch-22.
I dont think this one is very good right now. The effect is absurdly powerful but I cant see a way to really get a huge advantage out of it in standard. Maybe with Reno in wild? Keep this card in mind when future sets are revealed.
The same thing has been said about Cho'Gall - and 2 releases later - still not a single good spell in sight. As long as these effects are around we will also not get one. So not only are these cards wasted on warlock BECAUSE we have no good synergistic spells, but due to them we also don't get any good spells in the near future. A Shit-Catch-22.
You can get a early board clear if necessary with Twisting Nether or Doom I guess. Just seems reaaaally risky to go down 8-10 health vs aggro, IF you even can. I can see this as maybe a one of to empower something like that, perhaps even a minion plus shadowflame in a situation where you couldn't otherwise. Meta defining? No. Good? Jury is out on that one in my opinion. Because it is cheaper we'll see. Though warlock as traditionally been creature dependent firstly, so as you said, a lack of good spells hurt this. Secondly with Reno gone warlock will be hard pressed to keep their life totals up, ESPECIALLY in a deck where you would want to play this, control.
You dont take dmg when you play hellfire with her on the board so you wont take dmg whatever you play after bloodbloom if she is on board
That doesn't necessarily mean the same will apply here. Twisting Nether is not the spell damaging you, it's the effect from Bloodbloom. I don't know if it procs before or after the spell's effects are resolved. Now if we tested out Hellfire with Violet Illusionist after playing Cho'gall, that would be a similar result.
I feel this card was designed to make Kabal Courier more interesting for Priest and Mage rather than to benefit Warlock. Like when other classes get thier hands on Poisoned Blade.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Everyone always underestimates Health as a resource, this card is good for exactly the same reason Weapons are good; it trades Health for Tempo, and that can win games.
Let me guess.. You were one of those people on the cho gall hype train when he was announced. This card won't see play.. And to call it meta defining is a joke.. Meta defining is the rank for cards that are essentially auto include in meta decks.. This is not that.
Don't buy a lotto ticket then, because I hadn't started playing this until a month after WoG released.
2) Cho'gall requires you play a minion, THEN boardwipe, making it substantially worse than Boardwipe, THEN minion. If Cho'gall came down after the Twisting Nether, he would essentially be a Deathwing that lets you keep your hand but costs you 8 health to play.
THIS CARD IS BUILD YOUR OWN MINI DEATHWING. Boardwipe, then play Doomguard. Boardwipe, then play Reno Jackson/Kel Thuzad (Wild). Or Hogger, Kabal Trafficker, Harrison Jones, Nether Portal. Or several smaller minions, like Twilight Drake and Defender of Argus. Cho'gall is horrible with board wipes since you have to play him before you can cast it for 1 less mana and 8 health. This is amazing with board wipes because you don't need to have a board.
3) Cho'gall is actually a really, really good card that isn't supported by Warlock yet, but definitely will be later on, especially now that the Dev team realizes that Warlock needs better spells (Blast crystal Potion was a step in the right direction). To put him in perspective; if Warlock had Fireball or a Fireball like card (or just got one off of Kabal Courier), he's basically a High-Roll on Firelands Portal every single time you cast Fireball with him.
4) Speaking of Kabal Courier, especially now that Aggro is going to have a harder time thriving since we're getting all the taunts (Tar Creeper is sure to be very good), a 2 mana Free From Amber on T4 is potentially game winning, as is a 2 mana Mind Control when they drop something big. 2 mana Firelands Portal, or a 2 mana Flamestrike?
Kabal Courier doesnt count towards making this a good card.. Its still bad for warlock. Saying that Silence is better than purify being part of your argument is just silly. And any deck that runs twisting nether isn't trying to win on a tempo swing.. Have fun being stuck at rank 15
Am.. I would like to express my opinion about this:
Don't know how to start. As a player, who crafted Cho'Gall in his deck, I'm very pleased with the result. In WotoG there weren't any spells that could support this legendary, or better said, not many enough. But Cho'Gall is nowhere near a pack filler, nor a terrible card, it's not a niche card either. It just needed spells to work. With MsoG we got a huge pool we can use: Blastcrystal potion, Kazakus spells and there's even a possibility with Kabal Courier, when you get a decent spell. Cho'Gall is underrated imo - I won many games, because I could summon him + destroy an opponent's minion (with siphon, blastcrystal or with shadow bolt, when the minion was on low health) or + Shadow Flame for a massive board clear. So his ability to make the next spell (almost) free is huge - spell + a body. Solia did the same thing, except you didn't have to pay health as a recourse and the body was weaker.
So logically I should compliment Bloodbloom, because it holds a huge potential. But here's the thing - I'm kinda sceptical about how much play it will see in standard.
This card is cheaper, and cheaper cards that have the same effects as more expensive ones are almost universally better than the more expensive version.
Vernula made a good point there, but for me that's not always reliable. I would still prefer to lose a 7/7 body, that can SOMETIMES die in a twisting nether or DOOM, when I don't have the needed mana. This doesn't happen that often. Secondly: Cho'Gall is expensive - yes, but it's a body, that when used well, can bring a swing. Running Bloodbloom + Twisting nether early in the game is good, I admit it, but because there aren't any (good) healing options in standard, how can you assure to play safely the next turns. We have taunts - yes, but our opponents can have burst, can't they? And don't mention Violet Illusionist, because a 3-card-combo just to do the same thing as a single card is not worth it.
So what's my opinion: In order for Bloodbloom to see (more) play in standard, we should wait, until we get better healing options and more spells. For now I can see this card see play in wild, where you aren't afraid of dropping low, where there are more spells in your disposal and probably in pure handlocks, where you have to have duplicates of something, in order for the combo to be consistent.
Edit: A good combo with Bloodbloom is the one with Kel'Thuzad, as someone mentioned in this thread. This 3-card-combo, which destroys all minions and on top of that makes a threatening board, is huge and I would like to compliment on the creative idea. Not always going to happen, but still it's cool to think about it.
Kabal Courier doesnt count towards making this a good card.. Its still bad for warlock. Saying that Silence is better than purify being part of your argument is just silly. And any deck that runs twisting nether isn't trying to win on a tempo swing.. Have fun being stuck at rank 15
Why does Kabal Courier arbitrarily not count? Is it not a Warlock card? I do believe it's classified as a Warlock card.
Silence IS better than Purify, or are you arguing that it's not? Because you'd be the only person who would argue that.
Most decks aren't trying to win on a tempo swing, but every deck can greatly appreciate one. A large tempo swing can very easily close out the game in later turns, doesn't matter if it's Mage, Priest, Paladin, Shaman or Warlock. Heck, Secret Paladin, the boogeyman of Wild, is a deck based entirely around a giant Tempo Swing.
When you move out of your parent's basement.. and learn how to type.. and get better at the game.. then you have my permission to evaluate cards :D
Kabal Courier doesnt count towards making this a good card.. Its still bad for warlock. Saying that Silence is better than purify being part of your argument is just silly. And any deck that runs twisting nether isn't trying to win on a tempo swing.. Have fun being stuck at rank 15
Why does Kabal Courier arbitrarily not count? Is it not a Warlock card? I do believe it's classified as a Warlock card.
Silence IS better than Purify, or are you arguing that it's not? Because you'd be the only person who would argue that.
Most decks aren't trying to win on a tempo swing, but every deck can greatly appreciate one. A large tempo swing can very easily close out the game in later turns, doesn't matter if it's Mage, Priest, Paladin, Shaman or Warlock. Heck, Secret Paladin, the boogeyman of Wild, is a deck based entirely around a giant Tempo Swing.
When you move out of your parent's basement.. and learn how to type.. and get better at the game.. then you have my permission to evaluate cards :D
Kabal courier makes this a situationally decent card in priest and mage.. So to argue that it makes this card good is moot. Yes, silence is better than purify, but it has absolutely nothing to do with mana cost.. Purify is just a poorly printed card.. The effect is completely different.. To try to say silence is better than purify is why this card isn't garbage is just weak.. FYI.. Silence doesn't see play either.. So if this is better than cho gall.. Which it is.. It's still unplayable garbage
Am I the only one scared of more aggressive warlocks using this on Kara Kazham!, Bane of Doom, or Feeding Time? In general, proactive cards tend to be the more dangerous ones to cheat into play early.
It might be inconsistent to draw these two-card combinations early enough to be oppressive though.
Violet Illusionist synergy! Also, I see this getting more play in Wild than Standard, given that renolock has been banished, but we'll see once April 6th comes.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I agree those that spawn minions are the only ones that can be problematic when played on T2. Especially a high roll on Bane of Doom can win you the game on the spot. I just don't see a deck, that want to run these cards on the off chance of cheesing a victory. Any zoolock style deck runs too little spells to warrant the use of Bloodbloom and more control-ish decks wouldn't run any of the other spells.
However, you can use those cards in Y'Shaarj Renounce Warlock and have another win condition pushing the deck a little more towards 50% win rate.
I'm not sure the cards are all there yet, but I see some potential midrange/ aggro deck with this more than handlock style. So dump your hand zoo style early on + try to abuse Karakazhan / Bane of Doom early if you get them, then mid game you have a reset button with huge tempo swing with DOOM (+ refill your hand) or Neither if things go bad for you and mid range takes control.
I wouldn't, you lose card advantage with this one and the effect basically costs 2 more mana. This one is better with Twisting Nether but other than that I'd prefer Cho'Gall.
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In Wild, there's Antique Healbot and Reno Jackson.
In Standard, there are always cards in one expansion that deal heavily with what's in the next. Black Rock Mountain had Lava Shock because The Grand Tournament had Ancestral Knowledge and Elemental Destruction. TGT had Totem Golem because LoE had Tunnel Trogg.
Heck, Discolock is only a thing because it's had a ton of cards added from a bunch of different expansions that add up to it.
You'll also note that we are getting a ton of cards that support different archetypes in a bunch of the classes. Priest is getting combo pieces with their legendary and Radiant Elemental for some odd reason, despite it supporting Deathrattle for it's quest. Rogue just got a bunch of stuff for Miracle, but Bounce and Burgle got new tools as well. Shaman is all over the place with Murloc support (aggro) Elemental (Midrange if I ever saw it) and all the obvious control tools.
We're getting a Bloodlock this year. If bloodlock is good or pieces of it just fit in elsewhere, that remains to be seen.
I dont think this one is very good right now. The effect is absurdly powerful but I cant see a way to really get a huge advantage out of it in standard. Maybe with Reno in wild? Keep this card in mind when future sets are revealed.
I feel this card was designed to make Kabal Courier more interesting for Priest and Mage rather than to benefit Warlock. Like when other classes get thier hands on Poisoned Blade.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
As someone who's found Seadevil Stinger amazing after trying it out, I'm excited for this card.
Makes me think of a more Tempo focused Krulock where I can tempo out a 10 mana kazukas potion for 2 and get a huge swing and win the game quickly.
Seems ok.
Am.. I would like to express my opinion about this:
Don't know how to start. As a player, who crafted Cho'Gall in his deck, I'm very pleased with the result. In WotoG there weren't any spells that could support this legendary, or better said, not many enough. But Cho'Gall is nowhere near a pack filler, nor a terrible card, it's not a niche card either. It just needed spells to work. With MsoG we got a huge pool we can use: Blastcrystal potion, Kazakus spells and there's even a possibility with Kabal Courier, when you get a decent spell. Cho'Gall is underrated imo - I won many games, because I could summon him + destroy an opponent's minion (with siphon, blastcrystal or with shadow bolt, when the minion was on low health) or + Shadow Flame for a massive board clear. So his ability to make the next spell (almost) free is huge - spell + a body. Solia did the same thing, except you didn't have to pay health as a recourse and the body was weaker.
So logically I should compliment Bloodbloom, because it holds a huge potential. But here's the thing - I'm kinda sceptical about how much play it will see in standard.
Vernula made a good point there, but for me that's not always reliable. I would still prefer to lose a 7/7 body, that can SOMETIMES die in a twisting nether or DOOM, when I don't have the needed mana. This doesn't happen that often. Secondly: Cho'Gall is expensive - yes, but it's a body, that when used well, can bring a swing. Running Bloodbloom + Twisting nether early in the game is good, I admit it, but because there aren't any (good) healing options in standard, how can you assure to play safely the next turns. We have taunts - yes, but our opponents can have burst, can't they? And don't mention Violet Illusionist, because a 3-card-combo just to do the same thing as a single card is not worth it.
So what's my opinion: In order for Bloodbloom to see (more) play in standard, we should wait, until we get better healing options and more spells. For now I can see this card see play in wild, where you aren't afraid of dropping low, where there are more spells in your disposal and probably in pure handlocks, where you have to have duplicates of something, in order for the combo to be consistent.
Edit: A good combo with Bloodbloom is the one with Kel'Thuzad, as someone mentioned in this thread. This 3-card-combo, which destroys all minions and on top of that makes a threatening board, is huge and I would like to compliment on the creative idea. Not always going to happen, but still it's cool to think about it.
Seems ok.
Wild just got wilder
Am I the only one scared of more aggressive warlocks using this on Kara Kazham!, Bane of Doom, or Feeding Time? In general, proactive cards tend to be the more dangerous ones to cheat into play early.
It might be inconsistent to draw these two-card combinations early enough to be oppressive though.
Violet Illusionist synergy! Also, I see this getting more play in Wild than Standard, given that renolock has been banished, but we'll see once April 6th comes.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I agree those that spawn minions are the only ones that can be problematic when played on T2. Especially a high roll on Bane of Doom can win you the game on the spot. I just don't see a deck, that want to run these cards on the off chance of cheesing a victory. Any zoolock style deck runs too little spells to warrant the use of Bloodbloom and more control-ish decks wouldn't run any of the other spells.
However, you can use those cards in Y'Shaarj Renounce Warlock and have another win condition pushing the deck a little more towards 50% win rate.
I'm not sure the cards are all there yet, but I see some potential midrange/ aggro deck with this more than handlock style. So dump your hand zoo style early on + try to abuse Karakazhan / Bane of Doom early if you get them, then mid game you have a reset button with huge tempo swing with DOOM (+ refill your hand) or Neither if things go bad for you and mid range takes control.