The biggest problem is, that both classes that somewhat countered Mage are gone with the next patch.
Everything needs a counter in a CCG but with the downfall of Priest and now Hunter as well Mages are bound to dominate, because they fuck up the current flavour aka Warlock.
If you can show me a working post patch deck that can consistently beat the Frozen Giants deck or any other Mage deck, I am quite interested.
Actually the infinite loop is the point of the card. However in my haste, I excluded creatures by mistake. Once creature silences target Gamon, it thereby breaks the loop.
Otherwise it is a weird card that goes on and on and on... like Gamon!
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The new patch, from what they have shown us, is pretty much a coffin nail for all other classes in terms of tournament play.
While yes hunters can counter mage secrets, the likely hood of a hunter making it any distance in a tournament is extremely low. I know I play hunters and have several builds for them. If a hunter plays control against the frozen giants deck the mage will counter with a pure burn deck and stomp the hunter. Since they nerfed the UTH, Hutners have no viable answer to mages at this time. However classes such as the priest do. With the inclusion of every heal spell known and some healing minions a priest can control the mage out last them and mitigate there win % down some, However even this does not drop them below 60%...
The only solution you have to counter mage. Is play a mage. If more people play mage the statistics that Blizzard seems to pay attention to will reflect this and a change to mages will happen. The fact it comes down to this really does bother me as I was hoping Blizzard would have had more constructive balance concepts but sometimes you have to lead the donkey with a carrot.
I think secrets and secret interaction need to be spread around evenly and that's coming from a hunter main. I mean even lore-wise it makes no sense that something like a rogue wouldn't have secrets. Aside from that there will be retconning and rules set in place for direct damage spells like in all card games. They need periods like this where direct damage burn decks are dominant to get a feel statistically how they play in the current game so they can set the rules. Look at magic as it currently stands DD spells directly have their damage locked to their mana cost based on the card type and any other effects/restrictions placed on the card. In addition don't expect the current set of creatures to be the be all end all of what we're going to see, I think we're going to look back a year from now and be like wow I cant believe I used to play argent commander that card sucks now. Creatures always get "pushed" more and more as new cards come out to keep things exciting. DD spells on the other hand can basically only go so far, you can really apply keywords to them because then they're just 1 turn creatures. It's not like blizzard is all of a sudden make a 20 damage pyro-nuke-blast in the net card set. The short of it is that in the early on DD spells seem powerful but just wait until new creature and you'll see all but the mana effecient burns(used as removals only) fall to the wayside and a much more creature centric meta take over in later xpacks.
Personally, a priest full of heal spells will get run down by my "Son of MAC" deck. I fought one such example in the queues. Unless they get their balance of heal and deal right and draw a god hand, I'm confident of overunning any priest.
I also fought a Frost Giant deck. I was quite happily bashing away at my opponent till he hit 14, watching that huge hand of his and wondering what the hell was he holding back. Seeing 2 Molten Giants land together with ANTONIDAS followed by a Frostbolt killing the lone DoA on the field made me sweat.
Because of a lack of spammed threats in the earlier turns, my hand was full of AoE. I opened the next turn with Polymorph on Anton, Frost Nova, DoA. He played a lot of crap, but my DoA lived. Flamestrike, Frost Nova, DoA swing.
More crap lands on his turn, he heals himself to 17, DoA gets pinged. Blizzard kills his board and locks the Giants, Fireball + swing.
He didn't heal, so I just opened the next turn with Pyro.
All that would NOT have been possible if I was any other class.
I think people need to man up a bit regarding some of these cards that are being complained about...
Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they were MtG players when one-cost cards like Fog are played - on their own turn, just as they thought they had the game in the bag!
PLEASE! PLEASE BLIZZARD, LISTEN TO THIS MAN, AND GIVE US FOG! I BEG YOU!
Anyway, on the topic:
I don't think Mages stall options are a problem at all. It's in the core of the class, what good is a frost mage if it can't freeze? Changing that would mean changing one entire archetype of the class, and would make this game even more boring and aggro-focused than it already is (and everyone here knows that 99% of this game is "herp derp aggro in your face"). It's just the way the game was made for, so what's wrong with having some control-ish options? If the AoE and tempo options bother you, try using a midrange deck with a ton of high health creatures. It'll easily plow through any control mage (not the aggro ones though). There are options, you can play around it, so I don't think it needs a nerf.
To be pretty honest, I don't think Mages deserve any nerf right now. Their kit is very solid, but not OP by any means. However, I do agree that it's kinda boring when you can't remove some of the stronger secrets when you're not playing Hunter (which is a crap class right now lol). So I believe the best way to effectively "nerf" Mages, would be to give the other classes more options against them.
I think people need to man up a bit regarding some of these cards that are being complained about...
Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they were MtG players when one-cost cards like Fog are played - on their own turn, just as they thought they had the game in the bag!
Fog doesn't stop your guys from attacking next turn. Fog doesn't wipe your board. Also, you can respond to Fog with instants (Fling, Cancel, etc.).
I think people need to man up a bit regarding some of these cards that are being complained about...
Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they were MtG players when one-cost cards like Fog are played - on their own turn, just as they thought they had the game in the bag!
Fog doesn't stop your guys from attacking next turn. Fog doesn't wipe your board. Also, you can respond to Fog with instants (Fling, Cancel, etc.).
No, it stops you guys from doing any damage on your own turn. And of course you can repond with things like Counterspell etc. But the point is, the people who freak out about some of the Hearthstone cards would REALLY dislike a lot of the cards in other CCGs.
Just need a neutral minion that can ignore Freezing.
5 mana 4/5 with: "Warmblood: This minion can't be frozen."
That might be a bit too strong though.
Good idea but would likely not be played unless people can't be deterred from playing mages otherwise (too situational, if there's no freeze to be ignored, 4/5 for 5 is bad value).
I've got cards in my decks that I'm not always going to find a use for in a match because they are highly situational, that doesn't stop me from putting them in there in the event that I need them. But I do understand what you mean.
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The biggest problem is, that both classes that somewhat countered Mage are gone with the next patch.
Everything needs a counter in a CCG but with the downfall of Priest and now Hunter as well Mages are bound to dominate, because they fuck up the current flavour aka Warlock.
If you can show me a working post patch deck that can consistently beat the Frozen Giants deck or any other Mage deck, I am quite interested.
Also known as 'Emoeritz'
XaszEmoeritz#1504
Actually the infinite loop is the point of the card. However in my haste, I excluded creatures by mistake. Once creature silences target Gamon, it thereby breaks the loop.
Otherwise it is a weird card that goes on and on and on... like Gamon!
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
The new patch, from what they have shown us, is pretty much a coffin nail for all other classes in terms of tournament play.
While yes hunters can counter mage secrets, the likely hood of a hunter making it any distance in a tournament is extremely low. I know I play hunters and have several builds for them. If a hunter plays control against the frozen giants deck the mage will counter with a pure burn deck and stomp the hunter. Since they nerfed the UTH, Hutners have no viable answer to mages at this time. However classes such as the priest do. With the inclusion of every heal spell known and some healing minions a priest can control the mage out last them and mitigate there win % down some, However even this does not drop them below 60%...
The only solution you have to counter mage. Is play a mage. If more people play mage the statistics that Blizzard seems to pay attention to will reflect this and a change to mages will happen. The fact it comes down to this really does bother me as I was hoping Blizzard would have had more constructive balance concepts but sometimes you have to lead the donkey with a carrot.
reminds me of
Couldn't help myself in giving Warrior's a nod :)
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Mmm 1 turn spell damage reduction is kind of weak, I'd say spell damage halved or something for 3 turns.
I was thinking more like a Warrior's Ice Block
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
I think secrets and secret interaction need to be spread around evenly and that's coming from a hunter main. I mean even lore-wise it makes no sense that something like a rogue wouldn't have secrets. Aside from that there will be retconning and rules set in place for direct damage spells like in all card games. They need periods like this where direct damage burn decks are dominant to get a feel statistically how they play in the current game so they can set the rules. Look at magic as it currently stands DD spells directly have their damage locked to their mana cost based on the card type and any other effects/restrictions placed on the card. In addition don't expect the current set of creatures to be the be all end all of what we're going to see, I think we're going to look back a year from now and be like wow I cant believe I used to play argent commander that card sucks now. Creatures always get "pushed" more and more as new cards come out to keep things exciting. DD spells on the other hand can basically only go so far, you can really apply keywords to them because then they're just 1 turn creatures. It's not like blizzard is all of a sudden make a 20 damage pyro-nuke-blast in the net card set. The short of it is that in the early on DD spells seem powerful but just wait until new creature and you'll see all but the mana effecient burns(used as removals only) fall to the wayside and a much more creature centric meta take over in later xpacks.
Make it so! :D
Personally, a priest full of heal spells will get run down by my "Son of MAC" deck. I fought one such example in the queues. Unless they get their balance of heal and deal right and draw a god hand, I'm confident of overunning any priest.
I also fought a Frost Giant deck. I was quite happily bashing away at my opponent till he hit 14, watching that huge hand of his and wondering what the hell was he holding back. Seeing 2 Molten Giants land together with ANTONIDAS followed by a Frostbolt killing the lone DoA on the field made me sweat.
Because of a lack of spammed threats in the earlier turns, my hand was full of AoE. I opened the next turn with Polymorph on Anton, Frost Nova, DoA. He played a lot of crap, but my DoA lived. Flamestrike, Frost Nova, DoA swing.
More crap lands on his turn, he heals himself to 17, DoA gets pinged. Blizzard kills his board and locks the Giants, Fireball + swing.
He didn't heal, so I just opened the next turn with Pyro.
All that would NOT have been possible if I was any other class.
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
Avenging Wrath x2 :)
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Assuming the Wrath RNG went for his dome instead of tickling the Giants. :P
Database Database just sitting in the Database WOW WOW
I have to agree that Freeze is the OP thing with the Mages
Its not Pyro, but the fact that mages have 8-10 cards to delay the game with and get to pyros.
I think Frost Nova and Ice Lance need to be removed and replaced with new mage cards.
Why these two? Because they are the least powerful "delay/freeze" cards, but IMO push it over the top as far as "too much freeze"
This way, mages would have 6 cards to delay / freeze with - Bolt for single target, Cone for Multi Target and Blizzard for everything.
Turn Ice Lance into a new spell "Invisibility" - Your hero becomes non targetable for the next turn, draw a card
Turn Frost nova into a new spell "Molten Armor" - Target Friendly Character gains +1/+1, draw a card.
I heal people to death
PLEASE! PLEASE BLIZZARD, LISTEN TO THIS MAN, AND GIVE US FOG! I BEG YOU!
Anyway, on the topic:
I don't think Mages stall options are a problem at all. It's in the core of the class, what good is a frost mage if it can't freeze? Changing that would mean changing one entire archetype of the class, and would make this game even more boring and aggro-focused than it already is (and everyone here knows that 99% of this game is "herp derp aggro in your face"). It's just the way the game was made for, so what's wrong with having some control-ish options? If the AoE and tempo options bother you, try using a midrange deck with a ton of high health creatures. It'll easily plow through any control mage (not the aggro ones though). There are options, you can play around it, so I don't think it needs a nerf.
To be pretty honest, I don't think Mages deserve any nerf right now. Their kit is very solid, but not OP by any means. However, I do agree that it's kinda boring when you can't remove some of the stronger secrets when you're not playing Hunter (which is a crap class right now lol). So I believe the best way to effectively "nerf" Mages, would be to give the other classes more options against them.
Fog doesn't stop your guys from attacking next turn. Fog doesn't wipe your board. Also, you can respond to Fog with instants (Fling, Cancel, etc.).
No, it stops you guys from doing any damage on your own turn. And of course you can repond with things like Counterspell etc. But the point is, the people who freak out about some of the Hearthstone cards would REALLY dislike a lot of the cards in other CCGs.
There needs to be some sort of 'spell taunt' aka grounding totem mechanic introduced
Just need a neutral minion that can ignore Freezing.
5 mana 4/5 with: "Warmblood: This minion can't be frozen."
That might be a bit too strong though.
Good idea but would likely not be played unless people can't be deterred from playing mages otherwise (too situational, if there's no freeze to be ignored, 4/5 for 5 is bad value).
I've got cards in my decks that I'm not always going to find a use for in a match because they are highly situational, that doesn't stop me from putting them in there in the event that I need them. But I do understand what you mean.