Rise of Shadows Card Nerfs - What Do Pros Want To See Smacked?
IGN's Cam Shea got a chance to speak with a few of Hearthstone's pros at this past weekend's HCT World Championship and talked about card nerfs. Below you'll find our recap and you can read their thoughts it full here.
Card nerfs have been a very popular community topic post expansion launch, as they always are, though could it be different this time around? Here's what pros had to say about the Rise of Shadows set and any cards they think should get hit with the nerf bat.
- Ike thinks the meta hasn't fully progressed yet due to "sixteen of the best players ... [not] sharing anything"
- Justsaiyan says Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is a problem. Everyone is playing Warrior which means long games, he feels like not even playing mirrors. Boom is strong due to the DK rotation.
- Bunnyhoppor thinks Rogue is too strong. He also has this to say:
- Rogue opposition needs to have an answer for Waggle Pick or Raiding Party.
- Edwin VanCleef should be removed. He proposes moving Edwin to the Hall of Fame and making Preparation's effect a 2-cost reduction.
- Magic Carpet is not an issue right now but could be if Rogue gets nerfed.
- Possibly need to do something about Dr. Boom, Mad Genius because it might be healthy for player sentiment.
- Wants to see changes before Hearthstone Grandmasters begins as he doesn't want to see everyone only playing Rogue and Warrior.
- Hunterace thinks the biggest problem is EVIL Miscreant due to the Rogue pool being very strong. Bump the cost up to 4.
Proposed Nerf Targets
Some of these are conditionally, though they certainly echo community thoughts.
Your Thoughts
Are there any cards you think need to be hit with a nerf after these past few weeks of playing Rise of Shadows? Let us know down below.
Personally, I'm quite amazed Magic Carpet was even printed and will continue to quite enjoy the shenanigans in Zoolock while I still can. Increasing the cost seems like the most viable way to deal with it to keep the effect intact.
I also think that Augmented Elekk gives Warrior way too much power. Increasing its cost so it can remain a viable option for getting onto the field later in the game seems acceptable.
Wild - Odd Paladin, Kingsbane Rogue, Voidcaller + Darkest Hour, Barnes + Vargoth
Standard - Raiding Party, Doctor Boom´s rush on mechs, Giants in mage, calling is super fun and the popularity is just because of the giants (And astralmancers in late game which is fine), Magic Carpet, Miscreant.
Wait, nerfing Preparation to 2 mana... just remove the card why dontcha?! I'm not even a big Rogue player and that seems harsh to me.
Justsaiyan and Bunnyhoppor wanting nerfs for Dr Boom? Who are theese noobs? Leave Control Warrior allone, he is fine! Only aggro is always op. Omg, learn to play and get good! (KAPPA)
I guess nobody got the Kappa
Since i opened 5 copies of Magic Carpet, 1 of them golden, obviously the card is insanely OP and should be nerfed from orbit!
as somone who opened three Waggle PIcks and a golden one but dusted them because he can't accurately evalute weapons I say the card is fine and instead everything else should probably be nerfed instead
weird that nobody mentioned Conjurer's Calling/Mountain Giant
Like sure, Conjurer Mage has weaknessses, but any deck that can't kill a turn 4 mountain giant (sometimes even turn 3) basically loses on the spot and it'S not gonna get better if ROgue or Warrior get nerfed.
I'd hate to see the meta devolve into "does your class have an efficient big removal by turn 4? if not it's unplayable" (this would effectively make Paladin, a number of board focussed Shaman decks, and other non-control Mage decks basically invalid)
The problem is the giant mechanics. It should interact with cards like this differently
Remember how broken Naga Sea Witch and giants were? If they just made giants obey the cost being set to 5 mana and nothing else, there would have been no problems
Same here, Conjurer's Calling works that way, because even tho the giant was played for 3-4 mana, he is still considered a 12 mana
Knowing that blizzard they will at best nerf Conjurer's Calling so that it will summon cards of the same cost played (so a 4 mana giant will give 4 mana minions)
i guess actual targets are Omega Devastator , Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, EVIL Miscreant, Raiding Party and Preparation
what ??? no no no bunnyhoppor didnt said that about preparation. he means to change the cost reduction to (2) mana, not making it a 2 mana cost spell. wtf he is not dumb guys
also... nuke evil miscreant out of the orbit alongside magic carpet.
would rather they make it cost 1-mana and the cost reduction 4-mana so it's still as good with Big Spells, but less good with spells below 4-mana (effectively nerfing Edwin and Raiding Party shenanigans in the process)
Nerfing the cost reduction nerfs all the big Rogue spells that were designed around Prep and i don't think that'S fair.
Well actually there are some
Polymorph,
Hex,
Ironbreak Owl,
Shadow Word Death,
Sap,
Spellbreaker,
They should just revert BGH’s nerf.
3 mana 1/5 and 3 mana 1/6 are decent stats for otherwise powerful effects, definitely nerf worthy.
Also no more deal 1 dmg hero powers. Some minions are barely playable because of that.
Rogue, "Prepare dinner: Equip 0/2 fork and knife."
Mage, "Launch fireworks: deal 0 damage."
Druid, "Roar: ♫♪♫!!!"
The only removal warrior has Is brawl? Wtf, are you kidding me lmao
I think the likelihood of Dr. Boom, Mad Genius getting nerfed is low, and for good reason: how much did people point out how oppressive many of the RotLK DKs were - Jaina, Rexxar, Malfurion, & Guldan were ALL auto-include in every deck, and the rest all had good decks as well. And there were no nerfs there. Hero cards are - at least it seems to me - supposed to be strong since they completely change the tenor of whatever game in which they get played. MAYBE if the nerf is just raising the cost then that's one thing, but that wouldn't address the complaint of "games too long" - they'd have to actually change the way the card works.
If they nerf Boom in that way, it basically puts them in a corner of 1) never making hero cards again for fear of them being "too strong" at some point (and I stress *at some point* because Mech Warrior was not top of the heap before rotation, and likely won't be for the next 11 months - calling it now but I will bet serious money there's going to be a "remove all bombs from your deck" card coming in the next expansion), or 2) making them so weak/situational that they never get played.
And lastly, I'm sorry but "the games are too long" is a really odd complaint. For all the complaints about not having time to play when oppressive aggro ends games on turn 4-5 or OTK combo decks feeling like "single player mode", you now finally have the first really competitive control deck single pre-nerf Cubelock and now Control game length is the issue?! Honestly it seems like a lot of people want the game to be exactly what they expect it to be and complain at the drop of a hat when any one thing isn't perfectly to their taste/expectations. I hate playing against Tempo Rogue, but as long as people keep it to Ranked and don't cancer up Casual with it, then go fucking nuts.
I think Boom being nerfed is actually very likely.
If you check statistics right now he is among the top winrate cards in Warrior decks. He's on-par in terms of winrate with Leeroy in tempo Rogue...which is a strict finisher card and therefore has a high winrate when played by default.
Boom will inevitably be nerfed, if only because they already gave Warrior a great win condition plan with Bombs...as well as a lategame valut engine with Elysiana.
I mean look at it like this: If Boom is already this strong right now, he will only get better with the next two expansions unless Warrior gets no control tools whatsoever
That's fair, but the winrate I think is a little skewed given that control deck will likely have a chance to play most of their cards i.e. Boom is going to get to played more frequently than many other strong cards. And to whit - I've lost plenty of games playing Mech Warrior where Boom was buried at the bottom of the deck. Doesn't matter how strong he is if you're dead before you get a chance to play him.
Also bringing up Archivist Elysiana raises the other good point - I think she's a more likely nerf target than Boom. I mean look at the last few rounds of nerfs - rather than nerf Genn/Baku, they nerfed a bunch of cards that worked around them (same with Kingsbane, etc). So my guess is, based on past history, they'd be far more likely to nerf the supporting cards rather than the "main actor" here.