Iksar Looks Back on the Balance and Design of the Curse of Naxxramas Adventure
Just over 4 years ago (Jan 27, 2015), Blizzard announced a nerf for Undertaker who had been tearing up the meta since August 2014 when the Construct Quarter wing was released. This was brought up over on reddit and Hearthstone's Dean "Iksar" Ayala took this as an opportunity to revisit Naxxramas, the first set he worked on.
- Undertaker was a miss. Dean play tested a lot with Warlock. The team was much smaller back then.
- Deathlord was originally a 2/6.
- Mad Scientist was known to be very strong. Helped players experiment more with secrets.
- Sludge Belcher was designed to be better than Druid of the Claw, "the gold standard for premium taunt minions".
- Voidcaller is not a card they would make in present day Hearthstone.
What were some of your favourite memories from the Curse of Naxxramas adventure? Face Hunter was so beautiful, my one true love.
Quote from IksarUndertaker still makes me laugh. Naxxramas was an interesting small set to balance. Personally, Naxx was the first set I ever worked on so I look back on it fondly. Some design anecdotes....
Undertaker: Was just a miss in terms of balance. I remember doing most of the playtesting with Undertaker in Warlock because that was traditionally where snowballing board control decks were most successful. It was still extremely powerful in that deck but Undertaker in combination with Scientist in Hunter made it way over the top. We did play that version but just not enough to realize. The whole content design team was four people back then, so we had a lot less time to playtest due to the fact we also were responsible for designing the next set and building the Naxxramas single player. Today, our whole content design team is much bigger.
Deathlord: Was originally weaker because we hadn't done anything with an effect like this before. Was 2/6, then eventually up to 2/8. As a balance person, this is one of the cards I was most happy with. It's difficult to get weird effects like this to a level that ends up being played, but not in a way that people just put in all their decks. Ended up being both a moderate disruption card and an option in aggro heavy metas, but faded out when neither of those things were very relevant.
Mad Scientist: Definitely one of the strongest cards we ever made, but that was something we knew going in. It drove a few new decks and got players to think about putting interesting secrets in their deck like Spellbender or Snake Trap when those cards hadn't really seen much play. I don't think Scientist is a good example of a classic or basic card, but as an adventure card that eventually leaves standard I think it did a great job.
Sludge Belcher: Aggressive decks were very powerful in both pre and post-naxx playtesting, so we knew we wanted some solid options to combat that. Druid of the Claw was kind off the gold standard for premium taunt minions back in those days, so we made something that was just a little bit better than that. We liked the gameplay of having a powerful neutral Taunt option so much we went on to create many more like it. Some cards that can thank Sludge Belcher's example for their power level: Annoy-o-Tron, Stonehill Defender, Tar Creeper, Corpsetaker, Twilight Guardian, Saronite Chain Gang, Rotten Applebaum, Witchwood Grizzly, Zilliax, Bog Creeper, Chillmaw, Primordial Drake, and uh.... Giggling Inventor! Some of those were less powerful than we had planned, some more :).
Voidcaller: A good example of a card I'm glad exists, wouldn't change, but not a card we would make in present day Hearthstone. I love the bluffing situations it creates where your opponent has to assess the risk of what might be behind the Deathrattle vs the potential reward of destroying the minion before you have a chance to summon your demon. Also love that it drove a more big-demon centric deck. The part of the card that makes it something we probably wouldn't do today is the huge early-game swings it created and the the ridiculous upside potential of something like Voidcaller -> Voidcaller -> Mal'Ganis. Even though the average outcome was ok, the range of outcomes is just so wide that playing against the best outcomes can feel unfair.
fun and a balanced expansion,
even after the alextraza's battlecry change that completely broke the adventure AI
the bosses there have only health - a lot health - and were immune to alextraza, well most of them
but after the alextraza change (before it was SET hero's health to 15, removing also all current armor it may have, now it is SET hero's health to 15, without touching the armor) and with this change AI can't stop it anymore - lmao
Wait, what?! NAXX IS OUT? PogChamp
I Think They should re-nerf Undertaker so it can be use in couple new deathrattle decks in wild
"Re" means to do something again, "Un" means to revert something, I think you meant unnerf
The good old fashioned solo adventure :D
My favourite memorie was probably Cleave against 2x Undertaker....
But what you argue that makes him imba is exactly why I agree with OP. I think Loatheb is perfect as a legendary. Good body + capable of being played at the right moment to disrupt, but not so OP that his effect has permanent impact.
Loatheb's stats are not great for 5 Mana. 5/5 is worth 4.5 Mana.
The best statline for 5 Mana would be 6/6, which is worth 5.5 Mana, rounded down to 5.
5/6 would be a good statline.
In the Wild environment, statlines that round up their mana cost are not good, one either wants the rounded down statline with a drawback one can easily play around (like overload or discard) or cards that have the full stat value.
However, most of the time we aren't even looking for stats, we are looking for powerful effects.
Loatheb is only good because of it's card text, which is Rebuke for 0.5 Mana. That's why the card is so strong, because of it's text which is essentially a Mana-cheat.
Loatheb is pretty broken for aggro decks tbh. Every wild deck that is aggro should run it. Vs control is absolutely bonkers its effect is already insane for a neutral card AND u keep the tempo up as u protect ur board from aoe plua almost garantees 5 dmg next turn with loatheb himself all just buy paying 5 mana. Thats the same effect of twisting nether for aggro decks. Instead of removing the board entirely u protect its existence while adding potential more dmg ALL FOR 5 MANA
Design wise it's a great card because it just slows down your opponent instead outright winning the game by destroying their wincondition but the body and the cost of the card are outrageously low imo... It's a perfectly statted midrange minion with a great effect so as long as you have a free slot in your Deck there's no reason you wouldn't want to play... You're trying to stabilize after the early game rampage of Odd Rogue and they play this gg wp... Basically what I'm saying that Loatheb should be a tech card against spell based Decks not something any Deck wants to have...
For those guys discontent with the current meta, the meta is like this and it's gonna stay like this. The problem with it (excessive infinite value options) is too rooted in the last year sets to do anything about it.
Just hang in there until next expansion.
I'll have to disagree. Tech cards should be "meh" when not used against the decks they are teched against (like Eater of Secrets). There is never a time in an even game where playing Loatheb feels like a "meh" choice because his stats are great for a 5-drop anyway. With worse stats I'd say he was balanced.
Yeah Loatheb was just wrong because you could play it the turn before you expected lethal and then your board was pretty much unremovable with a good body as a bonus.
This is true - especially in the days of 3/2 Knife Juggler, Snake Trap would often kill the minion which was attempting to trade into Juggs.
Christ - the card is a staple now. Every Subject 9 deck is running a copy . . .
I think Naxx came at a time when a lot of players were still struggling to get epic cards, especially F2P. It took me a lot of time to get my first snake trap. Back then, a lot of cards were played less simply because they were harder to come by, without brawls and free packs from time to time.
Wait,since it wasn't mentioned here they still think Loatheb is a balanced card?!
Loatheb is balanced, vs deck without spells or sometime its just 5/5 for 5 mana aaaand sometime is very goood if you got board and ex. you play vs aoe dmg,
Loatheb is one of the best card ever printed: a 1x tech card that can disrupt the enemy game plan, but only if played at the right moment.
Loatheb has always been a good option in a lot of decks but is nowhere near as oppressive as Deathstalker Rexxar or Bloodreaver Gul'dan.
IS NAXX OUT?