Hearthpwn

Control paladin with no win condition PogChamp

OTK pala no win condition PogChamp 

/sarcasm

Saying paladin has no win is just a bad joke.. OTK themes are just not always viable during a standard-cycle but that does not mean that they don't exist.. they just need sometimes a bit support.. similar as warlock who needed some control cards like Defile / Rin / Spellstone to shine  as control class again.

I can already see this pack running: Countess Ashmore + Time Out! + Shirvallah, the Tiger + Crystalsmith Kangor

It's not a win condition, but can be used to survive a little more

not entirely, it's not like they just skip their turn, they still get to develop their board or set up weapons, trade minions. and remember they draw too, and they can just hold their hand if they think u have a board clear

What combo Paladin deck?

What control Paladin deck?

In all your daydreaming of how spooky scary this card is in the right decks that support it, has it completely slipped your mind that these deck archetypes for Paladin don't actually exist?

If Paladin could kill you off an empty board, that would be one thing. They possess no such ability to do so. As it stands? You play this, they kill your board, you're facing lethal again, and then what?

Believe me- the people who are actually thinking about this (ie, everyone not kneejerk qqing over a card similar to a card that I will once again remind the jury never actually made Mage a top suspect for nerfs or bans or Tier 1 or anything like that, and that was in a class that could actually make use of the extra turn it gave)  would all be singing a very different tune right now if this was printed in, say, Rogue or Priest. Something that can hit you for heavy damage without needing a board to do so, which actually places you in legitimate danger after they hit you heavy and go immune. 

But Paladin? Paladin simply cannot use this in any meaningful way. They don't have any way to get a cheap charge minion with a million attack to destroy your face, or to build a giant taunt board quickly in one turn, or anything like that. I'm sure you've seen plenty of mage games where the Ice Block pops, and Mage still loses next turn because they couldn't do anything to win. Paladin will run into that problem so, so much more often.

Unless, of course, you'd like to provide me a decklist to this super dangerous secret control Paladin Combo Paladin that's been in danger of scourging the meta that's been missing exactly this card. Slap that shit on a milk carton, because I sure as hell haven't seen it.

Oh, and don't even try "Mech Paladin". because there's a million other problems with that deck. And even then, your cute little giant value stat board with Valanyr gets -completely- shut down by Silence even if you do manage to get the board over them somehow with how freaking slow and inefficient your cards are.

This set either brings some sort of enabler for Uther of the Ebon Blade's hero power or this card ain't doing NOTHING. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Well we're still missing a lot of cards from this expension so we never know. I don't think on its own it's good enough to make the DK OTK deck viable (you can atm zola/brewmaster your poneys and otk people from nothing). But maybe we'll see a combo deck based on Shirvallah + Holy Wrath, by putting Shirvallah back in your deck with the Banker. A deck like this, with tons of draw, could benefit a lot from extra turns. Extra turns means your Shirvallah gets cheaper, and then you actually have a way to kill back your opponent's board with some Shirvallah + Zola or Faceless shinanigans, or just buy more time to build your OTK.

But honestly, without a new board clear for Paladin I don't see this kind of deck take off too much. Might be viable, but with only the cards we know right now, definetly not top tier.

Yeah Molten Giants deck was never really good but also because Molten Giants were pretty useless on their own. Here you have a 7/5 divine shield lifesteal minion that you can potentially play several times to clean the board / heal before doing your combo. For example, you could Shirvallah (0) + Zola (3) + Shirvallah (0) + Banker (5), so for 5 mana you clean possibly 2 minions, heal for 14, still ahve two 7/5s lifesteal on the board and put another Shirvallah into your deck.

Not saying this will be good, but I think it's a lot better than the Molten Giant variant :D

I've always put an asterisk next to my posts calling this out for the trash it is as the fact that CURRENTLY Paladin has absolutely no way to utilize this. Obviously that changes if they get some way to actually win the game off a free turn like this, but because of the fact no such method exists, that leads me to heavily promote my stance against this card. It's completely useless without anything to support it, obviously it becomes much better if something DOES support it, but as is right now? Nothing in Paladin supports this. So, right now? It's the shits. Will it always be? Maybe not, but I can't see into the future here.

By the way, hate to rain on your parade, but Shirvallah+Holy Wrath is actually a terrible idea. Any spells you cost along the way to Holy Wrath lower what Shirvallah deals. And that's IF you play Russian Roulette correctly and actually manage to fire off Shirvallah at their face... assuming the discount counts before it's added into your hand, I don't actually know.

Even if that's the case, and you do hit for the full 25? You are looking at the slowest goofiest combo deck to end all slow and goofy combo and control decks, mister. That makes Mech Paladin look FAST for goodness sakes. And a little card called the Shudderwocky had a much more solid game plan with much better survival and board clear options to actually stall out the game long enough to draw your "Win the Game" card.

And you know what happened to the Shudderwocky when the meta sped up just a teensy bit when Boomsday launched? The poor guy got completely shut out of the meta and people had to completely rethink their game plan for that deck. I can't recall the last time I even saw a Shudderwocky in Standard. And whenever I did? I'm pretty sure I won.

I see plenty of Shudderwock on ladder, it's a legit deck that has a lot of good match-ups. And ofc when I'm talking about Holy Wrathing Shirvallah it's not like you said in russian roulette mod. The idea is (maybe) to play in the same turn Shirvallah + Banker on it + Banker + Zola banker + Banker again, so you have 3 Shirvallah in your deck and can double Holy Wrath for 50 damage.

Again, I'm not saying this is viable or anything, and as I stated before, I don't think this deck can exist without another boardclear card (and possibly more draw options since you need to draw all your deck but can't use Hemet or Call to Arms..).

In a theorical world where Paladin get another board clear and more draw, and this deck is viable, THEN Time Out ! is very good in this deck. But it's not likely to happen. And outside of a crazy combo deck like that, this card is really bad.

Board clear is only half the problem. Sure, killing their board is all fine and dandy but you still need an actual win condition to build the deck around in order for this to actually work out. That's what Paladin is lacking at the moment- which is why this card looks so terribly useless to me.

50 damage in  one turn isn't a good enough win condition for you ? That seems pretty alright to me. If the deck is going to consistantly reach that point like Malygos Druid does is another problem, but the win condition is here.

Not when you need to draw your entire flipping deck for it in a class that has limited AoE and Card draw options... no, it isn’t a very good win condition -at all-. I brought up the Shudderwocky for a reason, it’s a much more solid gameplan to win the game via combo than your Shirvallah fever dream is. And nobody, and I do mean nobody, plays that version of the Shudderwocky anymore that just won you the game when you played it. This is a class that actually has good board control options (as well as Healing Rain!) and you don’t even need to ALWAYS draw your entire deck to get your game winning combo rolling. Mechathun Paladin isn’t a thing for a reason. The reason being that Paladin is not a good class to go to lategame and empty your deck with. Which is what you need to do for this combo to work.

...And that version of the Shudderwocky was deemed too slow and clunky to continue to see use, and it’s three hundred times more viable than your Shirvallah fever dream is.

Ever heard of the Aesop’s Fable about the mice having a meeting about the cat? Here’s a brief overview of the story. The mice are being terrorized by a large cat whenever they leave their home base and try to get food from the kitchen. One mouse suggests that they tie a bell around the cat’s neck, so they may be able to hear it when it approached. Everyone thinks this is a great idea. But then an older, wiser mouse poses the question: Who would be the one to tie the bell around the cat’s neck?

It is one thing to concieve of a great idea, and another to execute it. Let me know how many games you actually win with this combo with the cards currently shown, because to be perfectly frank, what you’re proposing is so slow and dream scenario-y, I expect it loses to even most F2P decks on the market.

By the way, I was being nice and assuming that 50 damage would actually win you the game against the slow control decks, the only ones you have ANY chance of using this against. You know, the ridiculous armor stacking ones in Warrior and Druid. The ones that can very easily tank 50 damage, and even more.

Where do you get that nobody plays Shudderwock Shaman ? 2/3 of the Shamans I face are playing Shudderwock, and I face Shaman pretty often.

And again, if you were kind enough to actually read what I writte on this thread, you would have seen that I said multiple times that I don't think a combo Paladin deck is any close to viable with the actual cards we have. I just said that if such a deck becomes viable one day, Time Out! will certainly be a part of it.

Oh and also, I don't know in which Hearthstone's universe you live since you don't see any Shudderwock Shaman, but there are other classes than Druid and Warrior that can play control decks. I often face Control Warlock on ladder, as well as Priests, even Hunter is kind of slow and can go to fatigue against other control decks. I don't count the times I went to death by fatigue against deathrattle Hunter.

Yes. NEW  Shudderwock. Which is very, very different than the Shudderwock deck of old that focused on winning the game once you played the right cards for your battlecry bank. You would know this if you were reading my posts.

"but there are other classes than Druid and Warrior that can play control decks"

Correct.

...And those decks will completely steamroll you far before you run out of cards in your Paladin deck, so what do you even want me to say here? All I said was that things like Druid and Warrior will just happily take your 50 damage to the face even if you pull this combo off, and they're a vast majority of the only times you'll be able to.

You can't have it both ways here. You can't criticize me for calling Holy Wrath Shirvallah a bad win condition (which it is, CURRENTLY) and then in the same breath say "I'm just saying, it could work with support!" If the support for it doesn't exist, it's a bad win condition. I can throw a 9/10 Omega Agent on the board on turn 10 and hope the opponent has no way to deal with it. That's a win condition. There's a reason nobody is using it as such.

It does in wild. Murloc OTK paladin is a thing, and there is enough support in wild for an Uther OTK.

Man here I was hoping for a new comic today. (More because I wanted to see anotther than necessarily another card)

*very loud whistle* accompanied by a red card.

Weird. Its obvious what secret was played, cause other pal secrets got other manacost

This is not a secret

My bad. Brainlag