True story: the highest rank I’ve ever gotten to in Hearthstone before is Rank 12. And you know what? That’s always been okay with me. I admire the people who can reach the higher ranks, and even get that elusive Legend card back, but I’d never aspired to be them. I’ve always played Hearthstone casually, just for fun, and outside of that one errant season I’ve never really climbed the ladder. Until now. With the start of the brand new year, and a brand new Standard mode, I thought it would be fun to see how high I, as casual player, can climb. I recognize that with the meta still in flux and the season being halfway over already, it’s probably not the *ideal* time for a ladder climb, but this is an experiment for fun, so let’s see where it takes us!
The Plan:
Start at Rank 20, with 0 stars. Play 10 games a day, for about a week. Try to win. See what happens!
Finding the Right Fit
It took me three full days to settle on a deck. Three days! That’s almost half my total time for this first test. You know what happened during those three days? I bounced back and forth between winning and losing and gained no ground. Three days in, and I was still right where I started. Next time, I’ll learn from my mistake and pick my deck out in advance.
Decks I tried:
Kibler's Toki & Arugal Elemental Mage
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Minion (23)
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The very first deck I tried was based off this. I opened both Archmage Arugal (I can't be the only one who keeps accidentally calling him arugula right?) and Toki, Time-Tinker on the first day of the expansion so I wanted to try this deck out. But I only played a few games before switching. I will definitely pick this deck up again later as it was fun to play.
Tess Greymane Rogue
Next I tried a hurriedly built, ill thought out deck to try out Tess Greymane, who I also opened. Unsurprisingly, I did not have much success. However, since then I’ve encountered several Rogues playing something similar that I’ve just been calling Copy Rogue and they did a much better job of putting a deck together. If you're interested in giving it a try, here's one that looks like what I've been seeing:
Minion (18)
Ability (12)
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Quest Warrior/Odd Quest Warrior
Last year, I built a quest warrior deck that I really liked and played a lot. So for my next attempt, I used a standardized version of my old deck...and then when I realized that Baku the Mooneater would probably help a lot, made an odd only version. It saw some success but not a ton. I did encounter others versions of this idea while playing, so clearly I wasn’t the only one who thought this. In fact, I saw a lot more quest warrior then I did before this expansion released. Ultimately though, I tossed it aside in my continuing quest for the one deck to rule them all.
Quest Mage, but Not THAT Quest Mage
My penultimate attempt at finding the right deck was a standardized version of an old quest mage deck I'd built. It’s just a deck that happens to have the quest in it! It’s not THAT quest mage deck, I promise.
Lady Priest
I eventually settled on a priest deck that runs Lady in White. I like playing Priest — probably the class I played most last year. It finally got me some traction, but it definitely has its weaknesses. Since I'd seen it could win, and I had heard it's best to stick with one deck, this was the one I stuck with. The deck below has the same general idea (and now that I look at it, I think I need to try Wyrmguard in mine) :
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Minion (20)
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Ability (10)
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Lesson Learned: Pick a deck and stick to your guns. This was a hard one for me (despite the advice I’ve seen out there that sticking to the same deck is key) but I did it — once I found the right one, of course.
Beware the Tilt
In a ladder climb, if you are casual player like me, you are likely to go on a losing streak. Be mindful of diminishing returns, when you go on a losing streak you can start to feel frustrated and you just want to keep going to try and break the bad streak. Resist the urge, friends! At some point it just makes sense to step back, take a break, and come back to the climb later. You’ll play better when you are less frustrated, trust me (I had to learn this lesson the hard way). I mean it, ignore this at your own risk!
Lesson Learned: Cooler heads prevail. When you start going on a losing streak, and are feeling salty every game (c’est moi), it’s probably a good idea to take a break.
Knowing What You're Up Against
In all my matches, I only played against two druid decks. I know this is only one player's limited experience within the game, but still, definitely lower than we were seeing before the new year. The class I most often encountered by far was Hunter, often times with Baku Face Hunter decks and Spell Hunter decks. Some other fun facts from my encounters:
- There are a lot of aggro decks on the ladder right now. The aforementioned Hunter decks but also a lot of aggro paladin.
- Shudderwocks all over the place. I played 13 games against Shamans. Guess how many weren't Shudderwock decks? ONE. Never in my life have I been so happy to see a Murloc deck.
- Druid and Warrior were the two least played classes I saw, in that order, with Mage and Rogue tying for third place.
- I saw a lot of decks, and different classes, playing both Baku the Mooneater and Genn Greymane.
This week, with the meta still being in flux and the expansion just being released, isn’t the best indicator of how most ladder climbs will go. I saw a lot of experimental decks as people were trying out their new cards, so it wasn’t always easy to pin down what they were going for. That being said, it wasn’t all a guessing game. The majority of decks I came up against I was able to quickly place into clear categories, if not outright ID the exact deck they were using. Below are some of the most common (or something very similar) decks I encountered:
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Minion (19)
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Weapon (4)
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Minion (17)
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Ability (8)
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Weapon (5)
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Minion (26)
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Ability (4)
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Priests were a little harder to pin down. I saw a lot of variety in the decks that were being played. However, the one above is my best guess at the Priest deck I saw the most often.
Lesson Learned: You will see a lot of the same decks on the ladder and you will probably come to dread seeing a particular class at the start of the match, regardless of the fact that you don’t know which deck they are running yet (looking at you, Shaman). Which brings me to…
The Shudderwock in the Room
By now, you all have surely heard about (or formed your own opinions about) Shudderwock. I will reserve judgement for now, as I suspect that could be the scope of an entire other article, but this deck did give me a spot of trouble.
I wasn’t seeing Shudderwock decks very often, one or two a day at most. Until day six came along. All of a sudden every other deck was one and it sent me on a losing streak that quickly spiraled out of control.
I know aggro decks can beat Shuddy pretty easily, but I’d also learned that the best way to climb the ladder was to stick to one deck, so I wasn't sure what to do. I beat them occasionally and until then, wasn’t seeing the deck very often so I didn’t think I should switch. My deck is slow, so it’s weak to the Shuddy combo. It definitely started to make me feel like I had to play an aggro deck in order to continue advancing, but since the week was almost up, I stuck it out. Luckily, the last day didn't have a single Shudderwock deck, but it may be something for me to consider moving forward.
Some Fun Moments
- When The Lich King gave me Death Grip and Death Grip pulled Shudderwock out of my opponent’s deck, rendering their Shuddy deck useless, in my very first (but unfortunately, not last) game against a Shudderwock Shaman.
- When Chameleos transformed into Sulfuras the turn after my opponent Warrior completed their quest.
- Immediately after making a comment about the distinct lack of Rogues (I hadn’t played one in two days and only two total so far) I played one…and then three more in a row! Speak of the devil, and the devil shall appear. Isn’t that how the saying goes?
- I played against a Hunter deck that used a card I hadn’t seen before, Toxmonger, to incredible effect. It was similar to, if not exactly, like this Disguised Toast deck:
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Minion (20)
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Ability (9)
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At the end of my first week trying to climb the ladder, I only reached Rank 18 (insert sad face emoji and crowd booing here). I ended up playing more than 10 games on all days except the last day, with an average of about 13 games a day. It felt like a lot, and I’m not sure if the average casual player has enough time to invest in that many games, so that may be something to adjust in the experiment going forward.
The biggest lesson I learned is that this is harder than I expected. I’m used to switching decks when the mood strikes, and crafting cards for fun more often than for their competitive value. So this has definitely been a big adjustment for me. I also feel like I have a lot to learn. At what point do you give up on a deck that has been losing? And how do you choose a better deck so that you have success on the next attempt? These are all things I’ll be working on as I continue.
What about you guys? For my fellow casual players, have you ever tried to climb the ladder before? Did you find success or fail miserably? What tips helped you the most? Is 10 games a day way too many, not enough, or right on point?
And for my seasoned ladder climbing readers, what’s the number one thing you keep in mind when starting a new season? What advice would you give a casual player? Let us know in the comments below and don’t forget to check back at the end of the month to see how I did at the season’s end!
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)I have been playing this game for years, a couple things you should know about your various opponents. You need to play a dynamic deck that can counter different styles and have multiple "conditions for victory". Relying on one set of conditions will beat you. Don't get frustrated when losing, even the best decks have at best a 65% chance. The numbers are just not on your side. Consider the time of day when you play as well. Know the win conditions of various classes and arch-types. For example, Druids have a hard time removing big type minions. Rogues have little to no health recovery options so try to rush them down. Priests are slower so try to rush them before they can recover and out-value you. Don't go wide against control warrior if they have a brawl. Its the little things that you must play around to strengthen your edge. Cheers
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)I'm super casual. I play less games in a month than some people play in an hour. My preferred deck is super-grindy control mage, so my games can last upwards of 45 minutes, which means maybe 1 game per night. Highest I ever climbed was rank 10 during MSoG with Reno Mage. I used to try for rank 15 every month, but ever since KotFT, I haven't even been getting the monthly cardback. I don't even complete my quests most days.
Ladder feels like a chore. Every game elicits an eye-roll from me at some point... Turn 4 Call to Arms. Turn 5 Possessed Lackey. Turn 1 The Caverns Below. Turn 6 Spiteful Summoner. Cool deck, man. Glad to see that you're bustin' up the rank 19 meta with your legend-viable tier 1 deck. Remember to emote "Greetings" every time you throw down your power-play card on-curve.
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)Did you ever stop to think that these players you are complaining about might be just like you? Maybe they are casual players who don't play many games in a month too, and that's why they are playing good decks at rank 19 just like you.
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Posted May 1, 2018 (Witchwood)That is very likely the case, yes. It's just frustrating, is all. Decks that don't cheat out piles of stats or have multiple board-floods just don't stand a chance.
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)I love this and look forward to reading more in the series! However, I am kind of confused by the concept. What does it mean to see how high you can climb "as a casual player"? Does that mean, without playing many games? Without netdecking? Without spending extra cash? This is a great article from the casual perspective, but I don't quite get "The Plan"...
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)What he said? Netdeck and avoid the tilt. Very useful these days.
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)-
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)Tried all the formulas you gave, climbed to rank 26.
The shadows of Hearthstone.
Feelsbadman.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)Just as an advice, if you like Quest Warrior and want to play that to climb, play the normal one, not the odd one. The deck is way better when you actually try to rush your quest as fast as possible, therefore playing as many taunts as early as possible, therefore not Hero Powering that much. Plus you get access to really good taunts (Primordial Drake) and very good anti-aggro tools (Blood Razer and Warpath).
Baku Warrior is better if you want to play fatigue-oriented deck where you want to HP as much as you can. That doesn't really fit well with playing taunts every turn.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)This article spoke to me so much. Ive been a fairly casual player since launch. Never hit legend and my highest is rank 10. For some reason this new rotation makes me eant to try for legend this year.
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Posted Apr 30, 2018 (Witchwood)this new rotation makes me want to stay at rank 20
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)So casuall u say, many legendarys from new expansion u have. I would call this "A noobs try to pay to win Hearthstone" instead.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)casual and F2P are two different things. the decks he showed had minimal legendries too (three or less) and some like chamelios aren't even necessary. the point of this article was to demonstrate what the experience for someone who only plays some times and about money spent or cards in collection. most people could plays. Heck I could play these and I'm f2p! -1
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)To get to Legend, you need around 3 hours gameplay each day, and that's playing a fast aggro deck (your mileage may vary, but that's a reasonable amount you should expect to invest). I have reached Legend once, the last year. I could surely do it again, but I don't just for one single reason: TIME. I'm not saying I'm super good or super bad: just a reasonable good player with most of the cards, that's why I'm saying 3 hours each day is more or less what's needed.
Of course you need to be a pretty good player, and have at least the cards for a single Tier 1 competitive deck (even better if you have 2-3 decks, to switch according to the decks you are currently facing). But what you need in huge amount is just TIME: usually I just play for the daily gold, and that brings me around rank 5-10 at the end of the season. I was able to get to Legend playing around 150 games to get to rank 5, and then more than double that to get to Legend. Win streaks really fast forward you to rank 5, but after that it's really slow, also considering your opponent are pretty good players with good decks too at that level: you can't reasonably hope for more than a 55-60% with rate at that level.
For a total of around 500 games, given around 10 minutes each game, thats 5.000 minutes , which means 83 hours, or almost three hourse each day for a month, whish is indeed a LOT for anyone who has a work and a normal life. That's the reason I really appreciated the last update which reduced the amount of ranks lost from season to season, even if I would rather prefer and approach similar to Starcraft 2, where your rank doesn't change unless you actually got worse the previous season!
What I really don't like, however, is that trying to get to Legend almost always forces you to play aggro, and that's the reason aggro is so rampant on ladder: let's say the best aggro deck has a 60 percent win rate and games take 7/8 minutes on average. In order to improve not your win rate, but rather your time needed to get to Legend (which is what we are interested in here), a more powerful control deck should not just have a better win rate, but a win rate higher enough to counterbalance the bigger amount of time needed: in this example, if the control deck would take on average 15 minutes, it would AT LEAST need double the amount of win rate above 50% to be considered a better option. So you would need a 70% win rate control deck to make it JUST as good to reach Legend as the 60% win rate aggro deck..
So, the last ladder update is pretty good already, but to solve the aggro-centric issue, the only way would be to change the ladder system completely, making it similar to Starcraft or similar games, where you don't just gain/lose a single rank each game, but rather gain an amount of MMR/points according to the actual strength of your opponent. That would make match time less important if a slower deck would actually got just a little bigger win rate.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)I agree with most things you said about needing a good deck and tons of time but you are wrong about one thing:
Aggro decks don't necessarily take you to legend faster! The single most important thing is win rate. A 60 percent win rate control deck will take you to legend faster than a 56 percent aggro deck. There are many factors involved , both phisical and psihological that favour a higher win rate over more games played, but I don't have time to list them all here .
You just have to trust me on this. I've been legend 6 times and only once with an aggro deck and it was the hardest experience of them all. It kept getting back and forth. With a control deck you usually get streaks easier since the decks are less dependent on draw rng and is also easier to maintain a positive atitude. Playing aggro vs an opponent with good hand can be extremely tilting.
And also contrary to popular belief aggro decks require a lot of skill at high ranks. You need to know when to play around something, when not to play around something, when to go all in etc. Even 1 damage missed can cost you the game . Control or midrange can be easier to learn as they are less interactive in design and usually win with some crazy combo or just by surviving longer.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)Well.. I can't agree with the 3 hours a day. Obviously depends on how good you are and which decks you choose. I spent 8 hours @ rank 9 on an Elemental shaman deck last Sunday. 0 progress. Decided to play it "smart", did a little research on meta and deck performance, grabbed an Odd Paladin and streaked to rank 5. Finished the day on rank 3 with that same deck, 4 hours of gameplay. Next day Odd Paladin wasn't performing well, after a couple games I switched to an Even Paladin which seemed ok against the day's ladder, and in 4 hours I hit Legend. So, 8 hours to get 9-legend.
A lot depends on your deck choice and how you play, really. I wouldn't go ahead and slap a "3 hours a day" label on it.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)Playing control instead of aggro may indeed give you less burnout effect, but getting from rank 5 to legend so fast was quite good (and lucky) on your part. Given the amount of stars you need to collect, it is easy to calculate that a 55% win rate would require a bit more than 200 games to achieve, and a 60% still half of that! The math is easily done: STARSNEEDED*(50/(WINRATE - 50)). Stars needed from rank 5 are still 25, right? With 10 minutes per game, that's around 30 hours, or 15 with a 60% winrate deck. Also keep in mind that your win rate will probably decrease as you get higher in rank too!
Getting the right deck, especially when the meta is still fluid, may help a lot, and some luck with a win streak, even if it gives no bonus stars, will too, but on average you must expect a LOT of time to devote on this.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)Here is some advice I learned the hardway trying to get legend:
1) Most important! Play a tier1 deck. This is absolutely a must. (unless you are extremely sure of yourself and have infinite time to spent) you are not going to get anywhere with "fun" decks.
2) Take your time! Many people make the mistake of playing very fast in the hope that they can play more games in the same amont of time. But they often make small misplays that cost their win rate. Always take every second you need to think what is the best position you can be in after your turn . It's not at all shameful to rope !
3) play at the right time! Very few people realize this but the hour of the day you play ladder actually matters! If you play at like 2 AM in the morning you are more likely to encounter try hard players with better decks and better skill affecting your win rate. Best time to play is duiuring working hours. You will encounter a lot more kids and casual players who are easier to defeat.
4) Do not get salty ! When you are salty you tend to play worse affecting your win rate. If you have a bad time just take a moment to clear your mind or even quit the game for a while.
5) invest time in learning the meta! If you are serious about climbing the ladder you need to know what people play and how to defeat them. I recommend to watch some twitch streamers or tournaments.
This strategy worked wonders for me . Hope it helps others too.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)Casual player since the close Beta here, on EU.
If there's something I learned, is it's really hard to adjust to the meta, Espeically on the first month of the expansion, when everybody's still trying new things, that might ultimately be bad, but just happen to counter your own deck somehow.
Also, around rank 18-17 the variance start to become insane, you sometimes play people that have the basic cards that you almost feel bad for when you win, and players that have tier 1 decks that either don't require skill or they actually have the skill to play.
The new system, where you have to win 20 games (not including streaks) just to get where you were last season, is really hard for any real casual player, and adjusting decks is a real problem when everything below 30 games is considered a "small sample size" by any good player.
I myself play less than 10 games a day, and that really put a damper on my ranking since the system changed. It rewards grinders and top players, and really harms casual players.
P.S. I Somehow missed Zoo in your decks. I served me nicely and only really requires Prince Keleseth and Bloodreaver Gul'dan. This late in the season, I'm on a pretty great win streak with it.
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Posted Apr 29, 2018 (Witchwood)