Ben Brode on Evergreen Cards in Standard, Hall of Fame, Player Accessibility to the Meta
With the earlier announcement of incoming card nerfs, Ben Brode has been on reddit this afternoon responding to community questions. View the source below for the full comments or our quick recap.
- The goal with the nerfs was to reduce the ratio of Basic/Classic cards in Standard decks. It's too high.
- Ben thinks 10-ish cards is about right for what Standard decks should include when it comes to Basic/Classic cards.
- It was never the plan to not make changes to Basic and Classic cards.
- Hall of Fame is there to act kind of like a rotating core set that other games have.
- They are hoping to have something to announce early next year to talk about better player accessibility to meta decks.
Source Posts
Quote from Ben Brodewhen reading the justification for the change to Fiery War Axe (and, by extension, the Murloc Warleader change).
I just want to make it clear that those are meant to cover some of the thinking behind why we went with option A over option B - not why we decided to make a change to begin with.
In a world where we are looking at making a change, we felt like these changes are slightly less disruptive and that is upside, in a vacuum.
It's not a vacuum, obviously, but the goal here was to reduce power level because the ratio of basic/classic cards in Standard decks is still too high (they represent the biggest percentage of played cards, still).
Commonly, when we mention that we think about a wide variety of players, it can come off like we are focusing on new players at the expense of currently engaged players. That isn't the way we think about it. Usually we look for win-win solutions, where a change is good for the ongoing fun of playing Hearthstone and is also not disruptive to loosely engaged players. We've definitely made changes that are quite disruptive because it's very important to keep Hearthstone fun for engaged players. Just because we prefer non-disruptive changes doesn't mean we are trying to do that at the expense of other types of players.
Specifically, we made these changes for engaged players who are most affected by imbalance (deck diversity goes down the higher rank you are), and who are most likely to want to see the meta change when new sets come out or during the yearly set rotation. (Source)
isn't that the whole point why classic set is evergreen? not only that, basic cards solidify class identity. not a big fan of war axe, innervate, and warleader changes mr brode.
What do you think the right percentage of evergreen cards in decks should be?
I tend to think 10-ish cards might be right. We're way above that right now, and I think it would be better if it were closer to 10. (Source)
I mean remember when Kibler and a lot of people said that it's gonna be a mistake that you keep Basic and Classic in Standard forever?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUupMooIJYo&feature=youtu.be&t=4m17s
I really do want to believe that you want the best for this game yet so many times we have this "we said you so" moment. I love this game but honestly the evergreen sets policy is the biggest problem that holding back the whole design of the game. A rotating core set with reprints would make much more sense. But whatever, our opinion doesn't mean anything in the end.
Keeping Basic and Classic around with no changes was never the plan. We launched rotation with twelve nerfs, specifically because we knew we couldn't just have evergreen sets as-is. There is value in having evergreen sets, but there is a balance to it. Our Hall of Fame system is similar in some ways to a rotating core set. (Source)
bbrode how will you make the game accessible for new players if they cant build matadecks for even longer than now?
Hoping to have something to announce that will help with these problems early next year. We have a lot of work to do on the new player experience, but some of these problems can be mitigated by matchmaking, to some extent. (Source)
With Ben Brode, the game is not in good hands. These are all knee jerk reactions for cards that should have just gone to the HOF.
totally agree, not only would pauper help the new player experience but it would also create a whole new realm for deckbuilders
"...because the ratio of basic/classic cards in Standard decks is still too high (they represent the biggest percentage of played cards, still)." - BenBrode 2017
Problem is MONEHHH. If you have good free cards, you wont spend ur money in stupid dust packs. Blizz logic all the way
OMG a company wants to earn money?! HOLY SHIT THIS IS A NEW ONE TO ME :O I THOUGHT THAT BLIZZARD WAS A CHARITY FFS
I was investing crafting cards to build a ramp druid with y'sharj or quest! Now they simply destroy the deck, which already didn't work well. And the deck that should normally be nerfed is jade druid! They make geist, but they also make an OP UI. Good job yeah!
Innervate is a bad nerf. You can't compare it with coin that rogue has. Rogue is based on spells! Druid is based on ramp. Since, you can't ramp with taking only one mana is useless. Ramp decks will become slower! And the next year that rotation will take out jade druids then we are left with a stupidity
That's your opinion, but don't forget that Innervate limits the space desgin for the class.
As it is now good druid cards must be highly priced because of Innervate. It seems you weren't there when druids played a Yeti (4/5 for 4) on turn one or Ragnaros on turn 2/3.
Sure, it would have been great if they nerfed Jade, but at least we may have less crapy druid cards in the future.
The game needs a better newcomer mode. Like a basic only-ladder.
When you climbed it, you can choose the basic + classic ladder.
The standard-ladder should always be available, but players should not be forced to it.
I don't play wild mode and I'm not a new player, so I don't have the experience to comment on "new player on wild ladder". How hard is wild-ladder for new players, anyone?
But my friends all started playing and left 1 or 2 month into it, because they couldn't get good cards fast enough for having fun.
A more-ladder-system would maybe help there.
For all those people still trying to beat the Lick King PVE content to get your Arthus, better do it before the Murloc Warleader nerf
I don't think it's a good idea to make the most expensive game in the world even more expensive.
Figured they wouldn't nerf Jade Idol...
So removing all F2P cards and introduce all costly cards - Ben
I hate Hall of Fame I think it is a great danger for the game
that's why i said .. it should be made uncraftable and move to wild only ... provided the cards are free for newbies ...
Am I the only one just think that make basic cards unplayable for reduce the power of new cards is stupid?
And "shock" nothing about the (green) elephant in the room, Jades.
I dont think nerfing axe is gonna change much in PW. Sure they lose a big turn 2 play but a 3 mana smorc for 6 and make upgrade OP card is probably still gonna be put in every deck, while delaying when the axe can be dropped will result in axe maybe killing a 3 drop and then the last charge going to waste. Im very unhappy with this change. I also dont know why they randomly nerfed hex, didnt need a nerf af all. Other changes are good though.
what about warsong commander .. i bet its not only me who hasn't put it in any warrior decks .. like EVER .. its been 2 years now .. do something about it