Ben Brode on Evergreen Cards in Standard, Hall of Fame, Player Accessibility to the Meta
With the earlier announcement of incoming card nerfs, Ben Brode has been on reddit this afternoon responding to community questions. View the source below for the full comments or our quick recap.
- The goal with the nerfs was to reduce the ratio of Basic/Classic cards in Standard decks. It's too high.
- Ben thinks 10-ish cards is about right for what Standard decks should include when it comes to Basic/Classic cards.
- It was never the plan to not make changes to Basic and Classic cards.
- Hall of Fame is there to act kind of like a rotating core set that other games have.
- They are hoping to have something to announce early next year to talk about better player accessibility to meta decks.
Source Posts
Quote from Ben Brodewhen reading the justification for the change to Fiery War Axe (and, by extension, the Murloc Warleader change).
I just want to make it clear that those are meant to cover some of the thinking behind why we went with option A over option B - not why we decided to make a change to begin with.
In a world where we are looking at making a change, we felt like these changes are slightly less disruptive and that is upside, in a vacuum.
It's not a vacuum, obviously, but the goal here was to reduce power level because the ratio of basic/classic cards in Standard decks is still too high (they represent the biggest percentage of played cards, still).
Commonly, when we mention that we think about a wide variety of players, it can come off like we are focusing on new players at the expense of currently engaged players. That isn't the way we think about it. Usually we look for win-win solutions, where a change is good for the ongoing fun of playing Hearthstone and is also not disruptive to loosely engaged players. We've definitely made changes that are quite disruptive because it's very important to keep Hearthstone fun for engaged players. Just because we prefer non-disruptive changes doesn't mean we are trying to do that at the expense of other types of players.
Specifically, we made these changes for engaged players who are most affected by imbalance (deck diversity goes down the higher rank you are), and who are most likely to want to see the meta change when new sets come out or during the yearly set rotation. (Source)
isn't that the whole point why classic set is evergreen? not only that, basic cards solidify class identity. not a big fan of war axe, innervate, and warleader changes mr brode.
What do you think the right percentage of evergreen cards in decks should be?
I tend to think 10-ish cards might be right. We're way above that right now, and I think it would be better if it were closer to 10. (Source)
I mean remember when Kibler and a lot of people said that it's gonna be a mistake that you keep Basic and Classic in Standard forever?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUupMooIJYo&feature=youtu.be&t=4m17s
I really do want to believe that you want the best for this game yet so many times we have this "we said you so" moment. I love this game but honestly the evergreen sets policy is the biggest problem that holding back the whole design of the game. A rotating core set with reprints would make much more sense. But whatever, our opinion doesn't mean anything in the end.
Keeping Basic and Classic around with no changes was never the plan. We launched rotation with twelve nerfs, specifically because we knew we couldn't just have evergreen sets as-is. There is value in having evergreen sets, but there is a balance to it. Our Hall of Fame system is similar in some ways to a rotating core set. (Source)
bbrode how will you make the game accessible for new players if they cant build matadecks for even longer than now?
Hoping to have something to announce that will help with these problems early next year. We have a lot of work to do on the new player experience, but some of these problems can be mitigated by matchmaking, to some extent. (Source)
Do you think he wants to, or that it would be productive, for him to spend hours browsing through the swill and shitposts this community mindlessly puts out? He has better things to do, like ensure Hearthstone is a success.
How about an additional effect for Fiery War Axe? If any friendly character is damaged reduce it's cost to 2. ???
Well, as they stated in the "nerf" announcements, Fiery War Axe is a basic card and they want basic cards to have as less text as possible so they would be easier for new players to understand.
When it comes to the suggestion you gave, it's a decent one, however I would suggest "Can't attack heroes." as it wouldn't be that core card in Pirate Warrior.
You lost me as soon as you started adding card text... I just cannot compute. I think the way they made it will allow my brain to not hurt.
You lost me as soon as you started adding card text... I just cannot compute. I think the way they made it will allow my brain to not hurt.
Blizzard is Biased as fuck. They don't want to nerf Jade Druid, just so they can go to legend while not having the skill to play ANY other fucking deck that requires a brain to use.
If yugi thinks it's a no-skill, brainless free-ticket to legend, then he must be a 20x R1 legend pro.
I don't think you can argue against jade druid being one of the MORE complex decks to build and play. It's all relative of course. Good players find most decks easy, bad players find most decks hard, etc.
Would love to hear what crap he plays and puts on a pedestal. This cancer-this aids-that mentality is little-minded, cowardly avoids being admitting you're a bad player, and fosters an noncompetitive and toxic environment.
Please do tell me yugi, the great-yet-difficult-to-pilot decks, compared to jade druid. Pirate warrior? token druid? token shaman? murloc paladin?
Knights of The Frozen Throne had the potential to be the most diverse meta in a long time, now just Druid and Priest will be the only playable classes. Well Done Team 5, you did it again.
edit: After calming dow ans watching Trump`s opinion about the nerfs, and saying how it actually might open space for decks like Control Warlock, Miracle Rogue and Midrange Hunter amog ohters, that would be very positive. I still hold what I said that this meta can be on of the bests, but this will only happen if the nerfs work as intended, now I only hoe Trupm´s prediction comes tru.... But I still think Hex and War Axe nerfs are stupid.
I kinda think he's wrong in saying only 10 classic cards should be in a deck... I think it should be closer to 15, or higher, personally (but definitely not more than 20). It's going to cost way too much to build a few different decks haha.
I spent the $50 on this expansion, and I feel like I can only truly build a couple different decks. If adventures are really done, then they have to do something about overall costs, since adventures usually gave at least some solid cards.
Wake me up when Ultimate Infestation is 11 mana
Wake me up before you go go
nice one
when september ends
If the concern is for new players to have the right experience, maybe it's time to start adding in card collection as a factor to ranks with some kind of progression in a players collection through achievements or something of the such.
Changes to cards for the sake of "not everyone may have all these cards" or "it will be difficult for newer players" is like the NHL changing rules of the game to accommodate rookies to the professional level. If they cant hang, they go to the minors till they progress.
I'm not saying put newbies in the minors, but maybe some progression system would be helpful.
i think if Ultimate Infestation change "deal 5 damage" -> "deal 5 damage to enemy minion", the card would be more balanced
No, it wouldn't be more balanced,the card is mostly used for control.
the "draw 5 (!!!!!) cards" is the real problem