Go Figure, Druid is Popular! Dean Ayala Talks About Monitoring the Meta & Potential for Changes
Druid has been a very popular class recently thanks to some new additions handed to them during Frozen Throne. Unfortunately though when one class succeeds too well, the community won't stop asking questions and thankfully this time around, we've reeled in a response from Dean Ayala.
Below you'll find our recap of the important points and the full quote from Dean.
- It is not abnormal to see one archetype get popular early on; people latch onto powerful decks.
- Using short term statistics to say things like "more popular than Undertaker Hunter" isn't a good comparison. The two use different sets of data (biased publicly gathered vs all players via internal stats)
- Blizzard is always watching the meta.
- TL;DR: They are discussing possible Druid changes internally, but it's too early to say if anything will be changed.
Dean talked about some the cards being used by Druids and what they've been talking about internally.
Innervate, Swipe, Wild Growth
- Class defining cards are good, but auto-include cards into decks isn't their design goal.
- Internal discussions are weighing pros and cons about each card staying with Druid for eternity.
Ultimate Infestation
- They think changing it would only impact player sentiment and not play or win rate stats.
- It doesn't appear to be statistically responsible for Druid power or popularity.
- Player sentiment and the card's draw power not being a part of their class identity leave the card up for balance discussion.
Spreading Plague
- Druids have a vulnerability to swarms of minions. They liked this method to help them with that as it fit the flavor of the class.
- They'd like to only see it used during heavy swarm minion metas and not general inclusion in all Druid decks.
- The current meta shows a lot of swarm-style decks which is likely why we're seeing it played so much. Their eyes remain on this card.
Blue Post
Quote from Dean AyalaDruid surpasses in popularity the historic Undertaker Hunter
We cite internal statistics from time to time, but I tend to be cautious of that myself because it's very difficult to find any statistic that represents everyone. Given enough time and enough access I find that it's not difficult to display data to support almost any opinion about the metagame. At the end of the Un'Goro cycle, Hunter was actually the highest win rate class among all Hearthstone players. In fact, Hunter held the highest win rate for the a large portion of the expansion. Of course, I wouldn't say that in retrospect of Un'Goro that Hunter should have been less powerful, but that is what the data might suggest. With that in mind, here are some thoughts on some of the comments I've read in this thread.
- Druid surpasses in popularity the historic Undertaker Hunter.
The statistics being used for this post are for one rank over one day. The statistics we cite about Undertaker Hunter reference all Hearthstone players at all ranks over a time range of a week to a month. Druid is popular right now, but these statistics aren't comparable. If I had to guess what the most popular class within one rank of all time is, I would probably guess Mage at Rank 25 on an average day or Warrior at Legend during the Warsong Commander / Molten Giant era.
- Blizzard disappeared after the expansion.
As with every early metagame, we are monitoring play rates, win rates, and player sentiment on a daily basis. We hop in threads like this one fairly regularly to say exactly that, but people tend to want to know exactly whether we are or are not going to change something. We are discussing what potential changes we could make if Druid increases in popularity over time, but ~5 days of popularity is not enough to make that call at this time.
- The people want to know the status of a druid nerf.
We are looking at a number of Druid cards, but for a deck or archetype to reach this level of popularity this early on in an expansion is not abnormal. The population usually finds something powerful, latches onto it, then other decks that are powerful vs that archetype come onto the scene until one of them emerges as the new popular deck before the cycle continues. It's certainly possible that Druid is in fact so powerful that it prevents the normal metagame cycle from happening, but it's too early to tell. Here are some thoughts on current Druid cards. Keep in mind that these are some of the discussions we have internally, not a list of changes.
Innervate, Swipe, Wild Growth: When we changed Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, the goal was for Druids to have more interesting decisions to make when deckbuilding rather than a large group of cards to be automatically included. Even though those cards changed, there are still some other offenders of this such as Innervate or Swipe...and Wild Growth to a lesser degree. Having some powerful cards that help define what makes a class different can be good, but those cards in particular have spawned a number of internal conversations where we have been weighing the upside and downside to having each as a part of Druid for Hearthstone eternity.
Ultimate Infestation: Changing a card like Ultimate Infestation we think would have a bigger impact on player sentiment than actual play rate or win rate statistics. It's a big, flashy, cool design but it hasn't appeared to be statistically responsible for Druid power or popularity. Power level aside, having such a powerful card draw effect in Druid is something we are wary of in Druid because we wouldn't consider it part of their identity as a class. Partially for that reason and for sentiment reasons it is still part of discussions in terms of what to do with Druid should population and power level continue to rise.
Spreading Plague: Part of what keeps Druid vulnerable is their weakness to minion swarms due to a lack of powerful AoE. While we think plague is a soft version of AoE that fits the Druid flavor kit, it might shore up one of points of vulnerability more than we would have originally intended. Ideally Spreading Plague is used in heavy minion swarm metas and less so as a general inclusion in any Druid deck. Token Druid, Token Shaman, and Murloc Paladin are all showing high population in the current metagame so it's possible the meta for plague just happens to be now, but it's a card we're continuing to keep a close eye on going forward.
Blizzard policy = Broken card > Nerf to unplayable > Print some more Broken card > Repeat.
Added main part
Blizzard policy = Broken card > Nerf to unplayable > Print some more Broken card >Sell it and earn money> Repeat
del
Remember pirate warrior and quest rogue? They rose in popularity instantly and then were played less and less.
Yeah, when Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore were changed, they were never played again, is that what Blizzard wants? Yeah, change is good, but if they nerf a card to make it not worth playing anymore, is that the goal?
If innervate should be removed from standard so does auctioneer, two frustrating cards to play against
My opponent is drawing cards! BabyRage
OK, so they admit that card draw isn't really part of what they want for the Druid identity, so why make Ultimate Infestation draw more cards than say, Sprint, or even Doom! in some circumstances. The mechanism that kept Jade Druid in the meta in Un'goro was Gadgetzan Auctioneer, which hasn't been Hall of Fame'd, and yet they didn't predict another 2 copies of draw 5 card cards to be broken.
I think Ultimate Infestation was a reaction to two things.
A. YoggSaron, UI is basically just a really good Yogg. Blizzard already nerfed Yogg but it was still seeing play. Mainly in druid. By giving Druid UI, they effectively killed any reason for druid to run Yogg.
B. Auctioneer. It's no secret that the community doesn't like Auctioneer too much and having it played frequently in more than one class is unhealthy. By giving druid UI, they get a bit more of their own Identity back (ramping into a big thing) and give rogue a bit of their identity back (playing miracle).
It could also be a test for a new draw engine for a possible Auctioneer rotation, or even just a test to see what power level a card needs to be to replace Auctioneer in a deck. Only time will tell what happens to Auctioneer, but as is. People seem to hate card powerful card draw regardless of whether it is Auctioneer or not. It's probably best to ignore them at this point.
Sorry Mr Ayala, but I do not agree with you on Ultimate Infestation. Firstly, the card should never have made it past the design phase. Comparing it to Firelands Portal should give a good designer an idea of why this is going to be a bad idea! (3 Mana for draw 5 cards and gain 5 armor... sure...) So 5-10 days is already more than enough time to make a change. Secondly, saying that the card is not responsible for Druid wins is beside the point, even if it were true, which I doubt. It's an unhealthy card which negatively impacts both gameplay and how the player community is experiencing the game.
good ol' Ayala, never saying a single useful, informative thing in any of these interviews.
how was Jade not even mentioned? Ayala with the dodging as usual. guess we have to switch to Murloc Pally or something now? I'd also argue that Jade has been present in the high level meta since it has been introduced in the game, so no, Mr Ayala, I don't think this counts the same as some 'new powerful deck just arriving being popular'. in the worst case I expect some even more disgusting form of Druid to take Jade's place eventually, with 10 mana in midgame and full hand I can't imagine Jade is going to remain the best thing you can do with such resources.
and less retarded crab-like cards, please. nobody wants to lose games outright from lazy designed counters.
The problem with druid is Innervate.I always disliked the card and i thought it would be nerfed since the old gods expansion release.The card is cancerous in every druid deck.For example you think that Innervate to Ultimate Infestation is op?Then how about Innervate to Vicious Fledgling on turn one?The card is problematic with any combination you play it in aggro,in combo and control.
They watch. They don't do anything though, until months too late.
Anyone can watch.
Not been 3 months. No way they change anything!
To a degree I agree with them. My problem is more they knew Jade Druid might be a problem, but the only hate card for it isn't very good.
TL;DR:
Still watching, won't change.
Yeah, saw this on reddit. It was bullshit there and it's bullshit here.