Un'Goro Q&A with Ben Brode and Mike Donais
Today's Hearthstone Developer Q&A with Ben Brode and Mike Donais has concluded. Check out our recap of the stream below.
Today they discussed the recently announced Caverns Below nerf, quests, archetypes, card design, arena, and more. They did not speak about the upcoming expansion since that will be revealed next week.
Top 3 Takeaways
- The new expansion will be launching in August. The reveal is next week!
- The Quest mechanic met their expectations and some of the less popular ones can be improved down the line with new cards.
- We'll be seeing more Arena balancing in Patch 8.4 with the focus on class balance through small pull chance changes.
Q&A Recap
Many community questions were answered today. Here's everything we learned!
Stream
- They're here to talk about things the community is interested in, but not new stuff.
- They'll discuss philosophies behind the game's design.
- They would love to do more streams like this and in general interact with the community.
Next Expansion
- Next expansion is confirmed for August.
- Missions will tell the story of the expansion. They will be free to all players.
- Ben is super excited about the announcement.
Card Nerfs
- The Caverns Below is causing too much aggro to be played. They'd like to see more control on the ladder.
- If it's really hard to interact with a card on the other side of the field, it's a candidate for a nerf.
- Data behind the scenes can show them what kinds of cards are working together that could be problematic.
- Sometimes they've nerfed cards due to tournament meta.
- Buffing cards takes away from future design space. Creating new cards to work with them is better.
Quests
- They had trouble guessing exactly how good each quest would be.
- Quests that didn't meet the mark with Un'Goro can be improved through future sets where they see weaknesses.
- Overall they worked out very well for them.
- One of the goals for a new expansion is for people to be experimenting with the new cards. Quests hit this mark.
Archetypes
- They were surprised at how many decks from each class have popped up from Un'Goro.
- They still have their eye on Jade Druid as it can push control decks out of the meta.
- Freeze Mage is something they'll keep an eye on. It uses many Basic and Classic cards and so it doesn't change much year to year which isn't inline with their philosophy.
- Discard mechanic will slowly get more cards. They don't want to see it be the only Warlock deck, so they'll have to be careful.
Card Design
- Ben doesn't believe Primordial Glyph limits design space.
- They tried to make Shamans play more with spells so they added Spirit Claws. That didn't work out as they hoped so they had to nerf the card.
- Humongous Razorleaf has done better than they thought it would.
- Pyros is being played more now, but it wasn't really touched early on like they thought it would be.
- Lots of factors go into the Rarity of cards.
- Commons should be simple to read and convey base mechanics of a set.
- Rares and Epics can be more complicated and specific use cases.
- Legendary cards should be exciting and stuff you wouldn't normally see on a Hearthstone card.
Ladder
- Redesign of the ranked ladder system is going good. Nothing to announce right now though.
- The ladder changes will not be coming with the new expansion in August.
- Not enough progression at the bottom of the ladder sucks.
- Most active players are between Rank 20 and Rank 18. The matchmaking experience is not good.
- Top end players feel there is too much of a grind.
- They will be able to hit a few issues with the first adjustment to ranked. Other issues, such as new player experience, will come later.
Arena
- The next patch, 8.4, will receive more Arena changes. The goal is to make the classes closer together in balance.
- Mages will receive some minor nerfs to their card drop chances.
- Warriors will receive some minor buffs to their card drop chances.
- Vicious Fledgling will have its drop-rate reduced by 50%.
- Mike would like to write a blog post at some point to talk more about the little changes they're making to Arena.
- Mike thinks it would be fun to change up the Arena every few months.
- Will people get to keep playing their old decks when changes are made? They'll have to figure it out.
Hero Health
- The first time they experimented with health was when each hero had different health values, just like in WoW TCG. It was tricky to balance.
- Two times in the history of Hearthstone they considered changing the starting Hero health.
- The most recent time they considered the health change was back in Alpha. Their potential changes were:
- Player 2 gets 1/1 on the Battlefield.
- Player 2 gets +1/+1 to their first minion.
- Player 2 gets +3 Hero Health.
- The Coin ended up getting win-rates very close, so they did away with any potential health changes.
Misc
- When new sets come out, the game should be fresh and exciting.
- Classic and Basic cards make up around half of the cards in decks.
- They don't try to throw in cards into expansions just for the sake of filling packs. Some "pack filler" as people call it have actually been useful in certain decks.
- They come up with expansion ideas by using a whiteboard. They get the whole team together to brainstorm.
- Lich King vs Battle Pets was a wacky idea that probably won't happen.
- Warcraft Babies was another wacky idea for an expansion.
- They spent so much time creating characters in Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, they really wanted to do Mission content for them.
- Fireside Gatherings have a special Fireside Brawl. It lets people play Hearthstone in a different way by going to one of these events.
- Exploration of something like 2v2 sounds like something to experiment with in Fireside Gatherings.
VoD
You can watch a vod of the stream below.
Sweet!
Vicious Fledgling was the one card in the expansion that could somewhat counter the whole Arena control meta. Halving the appearance of that card means control Arena will spiral out of control even quicker than it already does. This means Arena wins will come down to who can draft the greediest deck. I would be fine with the change if they would also fix cards like Meteor and Tar Creeper, but this is just stupid. If they keep this up, the leaderboard will consist out of 5 win averages.
I don't like that they're "keeping an eye on freeze mage". Even if it's a deck that barely changes year after year, it's a favorite one of many players. Why try to force it out of the game? People have fun with it to the point of making it viable even after Ice Lance was moved to the HoF. It's also not a broken deck by any means... Let people have fun, dammit!
They need to change their approach to tuning the Arena. Simply reducing the appearance rate of problematic cards isn't fixing the problem. It just feels like even more bullshit when your opponent pulls the card they're "not supposed to have" and beats you with it. I had the same exact feeling with the Flamestrike and Enforcer nerf. Being 50 % less likely to appear means nothing. In average across thousands of games, yeah, the classes will have lower winrate. But the decks that do get lucky and draft those cards will be just as broken as ever, except now they will stand out and excell even more because many won't play around those cards anymore. And still, being 50 % less likely to get a Flamestrike means what? On average every second Mage deck still has at least one. Primordial Glyph, Meteor and Fledgeling should not appear in Arena at all in my opinion. What does it matter to me that it was "soo unlikely" when my opponent beats me with a coined out Fledgeling? The card is bullshit in Arena already, adding the extra sting of making me feel like the opponent got "lucky" to get that broken card isn't improving the experience. If the card is a problem, get rid of it.
How buffing unplayable cards by adding point here and there takes away from future design space? If those buffs would take some space away from "designing" cards like Ultrasaur then maybe current state of the game would be much better.
This is good info. I absolutely hate the stance on card buffing: if you have a card that sees almost no play in casual, arena, or constructed, why not make it a tiny bit better and see if that changes anything? Tiny tweaks and buffs could keep the game fresh between expansions, and give new life to unplayed cards. Got a 3 mana 1/4 that gives +1 spell damage? Try it as a 1/5, and see if anyone wants to give it a shot. The idea that you wouldn't buff that guy because it limits your ability to make new spell damage creatures in the future seems like a weak argument.
They could also do something like "we're only going to buff cards that are played in less than 1% of ranked decks," or whatever a reasonable cutoff might be. They have all the data on which cards are being picked and played, so it'd be easy to see trends on cards that are too weak.
Warsong Commander nerfed to oblivion? Give it a buff and see how it goes. Maybe make it +2 attack for charge guys. The best part about buffs is that since the game is digital, if they made something too strong, they could just undo it a month later.
I am just guessing,but from a financial point it's better to not buff old cards.
Its time and money investment into stuff you won't receive anything( for example: who would spend dust on crafting a Magama Rager just because he has spellpower now ?)
Also , it limits possible future space . Let's say you buff Ironforged Rifleman from a 2/2 body to 2/3 ,why not make it a card in the next expansion ? ( with a different name ) I know that's kinda lame ,but I guess if they made a expansion with 130 unique cards, the costs of a pack would rise, and they release one expansion per year .
"Sometimes they've nerfed cards based on tournament meta"
Rest in piece Yogg...
Some personal observations:
1) Was quest rogue troublesome? yes when a player had a dream hand it was very hard to stop. The deck itself is fairly complex and needs to be played with max efficiency. You need to know when to trade your chargers in or when to hold them back and wait for the quest reward, especially versus aggro. The deck may not have been fun to play against, but it certainly was fun to play. The win rate was around 50% - I don't understand why it was nerfed like this, unless they are introducing a way of multiplying cards in the next expansion - they've just killed off quest rogue.
2) Now let's have a look at Jade Druid... little thinking with little skill required, zero strategy, curvestone with endless value that spins out of control, not only can it go toe to toe with aggro it also outvalues all control decks most of the time. And as a result of quest rogue nerf - expect to see a wave of jade druids until the release of next expansion and probably beyond...
3) Primordial Glyph is a hugely frustrating card in arena, but it is just fine in constructed. It requires a high level of skill to know which spell to pick (especially as a lot of choices see zero constructed play) against different deck types. Picking the right card from primordial glyph is often the difference between winning and losing for control mage.
4) Expecting to see an absolutely broken discardlock deck either after the August or Nov/Dec expansion.
5) Moving classic cards to hall of fame and claiming the classic legendaries are the "face" and "identity" of Hearthstone doesn't quite add up.
Primordial Glyph is just too good. It would still get serious play if it only reduced cost by (1).
Arcanologist is also too good. Card draw with no stat sacrifice? And not only card draw, but card draw that will automatically allow you to curve on next turn? That's insanely good. Hydrologist is too good as well for much the same reason (1-cost cards help you curve), but it's only 2/2. And the poor Druid version...it sucks. 2/2 *and* a card that you can't use until much later *and* is random. At minimum, Tortollan Forager should have been the 2/3 and Arcanologist the 2/2. Isn't it obvious that TF has the worst card draw of the three?
Jade Druid is Tier 2 at best. The highest I've been is rank 10 and I have lost against maybe four Jade Druid decks ever
It's stuff like this that confirm these guys have no idea what they're doing.
"Once per turn, after this attacks a hero, adapt"
Wow, card fixed. Not difficult, guys. Fix your game, don't feebly try and hide the problem.
But they didn't hide the problem....
They're reducing the chance of getting Vicious Fledgling in arena by 50%, preventing this card from showing up every single arena match.
Therefore, they're not ignoring the problem.
Uh no, that just means when it does show up it's just as broken as it was before. Lowering occurrence does not SOLVE a problem, it just makes it happen less frequently, by definition.
Primordial Glyph needs a nerf ASP
How long do we have to wait until Quest Rogue is locked in the dumpster?
All they care about is fireside gathering, i don't give a shit about that, balance this fckin game, add another playmode, another hero, stop being greedier and greedier, LET THE ADVENTURES COME BACK! I won't be fooled by those so called "missions", if those are like the ones we had at the start of msog they felt like shit, a bunch of packs don't make up for the loss of a whole adventure! If you really wanna help f2p bring back adventures.
I agree that I love the feel of adventures, but being 100% F2P, they were such a drain to save/grind gold for. I can't say "missions" will be better until we see them, but it was such a breath of fresh air this time around to not have to hoard gold for a month or more in advance of an adventure. That said I've been hoarding for over two months for the next expansion :)