Dean Ayala Talks About the Nerfs, Jade Concerns, and the Different Hearthstone Design Teams
Dean Ayala was out on reddit this evening talking about the nerf announcement. You can check out our summary, or the quoted text, below.
- They can't know exactly how the meta will play out once the nerfs go live, but they can get a reasonable idea through play testing.
- Aggro shouldn't go away as a result of the Small-Time Buccaneer change, which keeps Jade at bay.
- If Jade was going to make up half the meta post nerfs, they would have gone a different route.
- The design team is made up of 15 people, through multiple teams. 4 work on Balancing. They all tend to help eachother out though.
- Live Content - Brawls, Firesides, Other Events
- Initial Design - Card Designs, Mechanic Designs, Set Flavor and Theme
- System Design - Ranked Systems, Tons of Other Systems
- Final Design - Set Tuning, Card Design, Mechanic Design
- Mission Design - Mission Design, Card Design
Quote from /u/IksarHSIn your testing of the nerfs, how has Jade Druid/Rogue improved with the nerf of STB/Claws? I think it's good if it improves a little but if it gets too strong it could be just as infuriating to play against.
This is something that is mostly a prediction rather than a result of testing. Whether or not Jade Druid and Rogue will be 'good' is meta dependent. I don't think these changes will magically make Jade decks strong against aggressive decks, but I think it's safe to say the meta slowing down at any % is a good thing for Jade. (Source)
Wait you guys didn't test these changes in a ladder environment?
Of course we do, what I mean by prediction is not predicting how good or bad particular matchups are, but predicting what people will actually choose to play. Jade decks still aren't great vs highly aggressive pirate decks, even after changing small-time buccaneer. If pirates are still played at the same volume they are now, I don't imagine Jade will be very strong. We can playtest every matchup in the game between the 3-4 of us but that won't tell us the exact rate at which each deck will be played on ladder, though it does put us in a good position to make a reasonable prediction. (Source)
There are only 4 guys on the balance team?!
Yes. Design team is around 15 people now. Live Content (Brawls, Firesides, Other Events), Initial Design (Card Designs, Mechanic Designs, Set Flavor and Theme), System Design (Ranked Systems, Tons of Other Systems), Final Design (Set Tuning, Card Design, Mechanic Design), and Mission Design (Mission Design, Card Design). We also have Ben that directs the ship and another sort of jack of all trades designer than works a lot on new player experience, matchmaking, and flavor things. That said, well all help each other out quite a bit and the real list of things each individual person does is more like 20 bullet points rather than 2. That's the general jist though. (Source)
Thanks for the answer! Part of me really hope that with such a small team every single one of you are millionaires. The other part kinda thinks this number is really low! But I am just a Internet dude. One more question! I think is safe to say that the vocal community is tired of losing to aggro, do you guys think is fair criticism to say that the team could be doing a better job at balancing aggro?
To clarify, this is also just the design team I'm speaking to. There are many other people of various disciplines like art, engineering, production, community, QA, customer support, marketing, business, etc that make an equally large impact on the game. (Source)
Why waiting until the end of February? Why not nerf the cards today?
I'm not an expert in this area, but it has a lot to do with being a game on multiple platforms. In order to patch simultaneously on PC/Mobile there are a number of things that have to be submit and approved being we can release a new patch to the public. (Source)
If the wolf population is keeping the rabbit population in check and you weaken wolves, that will probably increase the frequency of rabbits?
This isn't too far off. The hard part is determining how many rabbit-eating-animal decks will appear as a result of the increase of rabbit frequency, and if the introduction of said-animal-rabbit-eater introduces a new animal we've never heard of. (Source)
So why not do something regarding jade now then just wait for us to have to deal with 2 months of jade being infuriating to play against in any control matchup?
Jade is fairly weak to aggressive strategies, and I don't think those are going to go away as a result of STB change. There is still some room between hyper-aggressive pirate things and heavy control things that will keep us pretty far from all-jade-all-the-time meta. At least that's the idea. If we thought as a result of these changes Jade would be all (or half of all decks) that were relevant, we would have gone a different route. (Source)
Hearthstone made SEVERAL HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS last year, and they have 4 people on the balance team? What the flying fuck?
Releasing more broken 1 drops every expansion, releasing Jade archetype which basically shuts out every other type of control deck... It's clear they need to improve how they balance this game, more regular balance updates and getting a Hearthstone pro on the balance team, even part-time, would be a step in the right direction.
I really love this game, but jesus christ Team 5 really need to rethink the way they do things.
"There are only 4 guys on the balance team?!"
That explains a lot.
So its going to be even more jade shamans around, that is just stupid....the jade mechanic is, have been, and allways will be a problem. Its like fucking C'thun on steorids, and what does blizzard about it NOTHING, ABOSOLUT NOTHING.
The only potentially problematic jade deck is Druid. But it's still not that great - it's Tier 3 in the snapshot. Other jade decks are problematic for reasons unrelated to their jade cards.
Please dont bash on my dear Malfurion,we are awaiting for the changes as it is the day we will take the earth back!
Whenever these posts show up, 50% of the answers just feel déjà vu (because we've heard them before), 25% of them are subtle hints about what they think will be a problem after the current Charlie Foxtrot is sorta fixed, and the other 25% are smooth dodges to the question, that end up with recycled information as an answer, going back again to the whole déjà vu thing.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes these guys give us a bit of insight about game design and stuff (I really liked one of Ben's recent posts), and I am aware that taking on the HS community can be a chore. But still, you reap what you sow. If you patronize us by always saying the same thing, and expect the game to always live detached from any intervention until it is absolutely undeniable that there is a problem, then ofc the community is gonna be pissed.
The same team that thought Spirit Claws would only be played in Control Shaman, that thought Patches would be OP with the 4/1 stealth pirate (no, nobody plays that shit) and thought Purify was a real good and fun card.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Jade mechanic was a mistake. It puts the meta in an unhealthy hostage situation where it cannot slow down too much or they become too powerful, so aggro needs to thrive if you don't want 90% Jade druid. Basically that fun down time between expansions where the meta slows down when people try things out, Jade will smash through and dominate things for 2 years to come.
you prefer jades? okay,
there are so many things why a control meta isn't a good idea at this point. (before jade exists I loved the idea) I have always wanted a control meta. There is only one problem if the meta became so slow jade decks would be tier one there is literally nothing that can beat it. You would see 2 classes all the time in ladder, jade druid and jade shaman (jade rogue has no control tools like heals, taunts etc.)
There is only one thing that can beat jade and that is aggro. Control decks like renolock, renopriest, renomage, control warrior etc. dont have enough removal for all the infinite jades druid is able to spawn. I hate too loose against a pirate warrior, but a jade meta would be far wors.
And no you can't try out cool new decks because jade decks would keep killing you.
Another response another nonsense.
Q: Why two weeks later to patch, not now?
A: It is sooo hard to change 2 numbers on 2 digital cards. It takes time.
Meanwhile in Overwatch they changed several heroes completely in less than a month.
Apple takes an app for checking. And this check lasts about two or three weeks. That's why they can't launch the patch on every device simultaneously
They can launch the patch on every devices simultaneously except Apple. Apple doesnt cover or doesnt mean every devices.
Well, it's not true. as you can see on AppReviewTimes it's 2 days for almost a year now. And there are always exceptions for big publishers
Then they need to separate mobile HS and normal HS. 1 good game is better than 2 shitty unbalanced trash
> Apple takes an app for checking. And this check lasts about two or three weeks. That's why they can't launch the patch on every device simultaneously
This was true until a year or so. Now, most apps are reviewed in 1 or 2 days at most. Also, developers can ask for an expedited review if time is a concern.
1. because they want to update it after the winter championships
2. they also wanted to update the ladder, so the best time to do that is at the beginning of the month, so late February sounds good to me
Damm Dean dodges questions better than neo dodges bullets! :D
"Could you guys do a better job at balancing aggro?"
"It's not just me designing the game"
Nice...
Never forget, this used to be the atrocious quality of Q&As.
Blizzard has come a long way, I have to admit :P