Ben Brode on Classic, Formats, F2P Legend, and Asks a Community Question
Earlier today, we posted an article which brought to attention Ben Brode's comments on possibly rotating cards from the Classic set into the Wild format. He has since come out to address concerns some players have with it and to open up the conversation. We feel it's important to highlight, from Ben:
- Classic is the most powerful set in the game.
- Nerfs to a few Classic cards still keeps the "evergreen" set stable.
- The Classic set introduces players to the game and lays down generic Warcraft flavor.
- Standard is designed more for players who like to see a fresh meta whereas Wild will change less often.
- Charge was nerfed due to the Grimy Goons mechanic being added in Gadgetzan.
- New players should continue to be able to reach legend after the changes as F2P players are still able to reach Legend after all the 2016 nerfs.
- Not every card in the game is targeted for competitive play.
Ben Asks: Do you prefer some evergreen cards to be nerfed, rotated to wild, or kept in Standard even if it results in a staler meta?
Quote from Ben BrodeOur intention is to keep Basic and Classic evergreen. This does have severe disadvantages if cards from Classic end up making Standard fail at its goal of being fresh each year. It's feedback we've been hearing since the introduction of Standard: 'This isn't enough - we will eventually end up in a stale Standard without additional changes.' And we've always said that we didn't consider our work here 'done'. If Standard is at risk for becoming stale thanks to the evergreen sets, we'll consider additional nerfs. This isn't the first time we've said this, and we said it even before Standard launched. We've reiterated it over the past year: http://www.pcgamesn.com/hearthstone/hearthstone-standard-2017-nerfsAssuming both avenues resulted in full dust refunds of the affected cards, would people prefer:
- Nerfs
- Rotation to Wild (like Old Murk Eye)
- Staler Meta in Standard
Please leave the Classic Legendaries Alone
I should add this is a general question about all Classic cards and not specifically about Legendaries. We're not sure which cards would be the right ones to target, if any, just yet. (Source)
Quote from Ben BrodeJust create a Core Set finally.
We have a core set - it's called Classic. Is there something you're pitching that Classic isn't doing for us? (Source)The entire point of classic was to have a stable base set on top of the basic set.
There are close to 400 cards in Basic and Classic. Nerfing a few of them, or moving them to Wild, still keeps a stable evergreen set. Also, that isn't the entire point of Classic. It introduces players to the game at a slightly lower complexity level. It lays a baseline for generic Warcraft flavor (Hogger, Mukla, etc). (Source)Now you are admitting that retaining classic was a mistake, and instead of rotating it out. We are just going change cards and bend it to where it is no longer a complete set by rotating out random cards and... what!? Just rotate Classic out!
We believe there are real benefits to an evergreen basic and classic set. What we are talking about is very similar to the 12 nerfs we made when Standard launched, to help it succeed in its goals. Standard needs to be fresh each year. (Source)Blizzard doesn't like that F2P players are using classic/basic cards all the time and when making their decks so they want to nerf those cards to oblivion in order to force them to spend money/gold on adventures/expansions pack.
That's just not true. Some players like it when Hearthstone has a fresh meta, where you can explore new deck types. It's one of two reasons we introduced the Standard Format (the other was making sure new players wouldn't have to collect every card ever made to be competitive). Wild is going to change a lot less often. Some players like that too. But we have a commitment to keep Standard fresh and ever-changing. We've been hearing a lot of feedback that Classic and Basic as they currently stand are a real threat to that. (Source)And then when F2P players finally found a way to reach Rank 1 with a cheap OTK Warrior deck, they decide to nerf Charge while saying "omg guiz u have no idea how gud dis iz!!!11".
I see you took the time to look up my exact quote! :) We nerfed Charge (the spell) because we knew the upcoming Grimy Goons mechanic in combination with Enraged Worgen and Charge was not really fair or fun. There have always been F2P players at Legend, and there have continued to be since that change. (Source)Almost all cards that get nerfed (or "changed" as Blizzard likes to put it) never gets played again.
Maybe you're intentionally exaggerating, but you can count 'em and it's not "almost all". And not every card is targeted at competitive play. We do intentionally make bad cards. Here's a video, if you're curious about some of the reasons why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ioY1KO79A (Source)love how you're trying to put out the fire created by greed :) it's not working to well though, why not just be honest & tell everyone you are rotating out good core cards because you want new players to pay up or be 100% irrelevant? :) why lie about it? "fresh"? gimmi a break.
We did this in 2016 when we nerfed 12 classic cards and it made a huge difference in how much the meta was able to change with the release of Old Gods (instead of just continuing to be Druid Combo). New players were able to reach legend without spending money after that change, and I expect that will be continue to be true if we change a few more cards in 2017. (Source)I don't understand why can't they just buff cards? What is so drastically different that they can nerf cards but they can never buff anything?
If you're curious about some of the challenges and other thoughts about buffing bad cards, I made a video a while back about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ioY1KO79ARIP any good cards in classic.
Classic is by far the most powerful set. Nerfing 12 cards in 2016 didn't change that. A few more in 2017 probably won't either. (Source)
The interviewer was salty AF lol.
Are you stupid? He's responding to reddit posts.
They definitely shouldn't rotate classic cards on annual base. Classic cards I'd like to see out of standard are only Leeroy Jenkins, Sylvanas Windrunner, Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Alexstrasza, Ice Block.
Great, first my beloved Molten Giant - the only one card which could truly punish brainless face decks and now what? Alexstrasza into wild, Grommash without charge, or maybe Jaraxxus for 10 mana with 10 hp? This is just pure BS. Instead of revamping basic cards such as Stormwind Champion or reconsider Molten Giants nerf that i can put them in my decks they just kill cards making them unplayable trash. I feel cheated, ive spent numerous hours playing this game, put in it lots of money and gold to make my collections almost complete on BOTH EU and NA servers, and for the sake of new player base, blizzard is going to f**k me in the arse as well as many other people who literally have fully commited themselves to the game. Man i just care about this game more than ever, i spent more time with it than i do it for my wife and what i get from the dev team? a big F*** YOU. FeelsBadMan :(
Sorry for the rant but this was just too much to handle...
BTW, if Reno rotates out the single-card deck archetype is just barely playable which is sad too
I agree with you about the Molten Giant nerf. Completely unnecessary but Alexstrasza in renolock fucking sucks. I want to see it rotated out of standard because of the freeze mage not because renolock.
Jesus Blizzard....is your first impulse always to nerf instead of just making shitty cards like lightspawn, mindgames, Savagery better?? Like blizzard....
Classic cards that gets nerfed in standard should remain unchanged in Wild if you arnt going to support the format competivley let people play thier old decks
Blizzard doesn't give a shit about wild.
By my count, around thirty-seven percent of nerfed cards still saw some play. You could easily shift the number by a couple cards either way, but even still, that's not bad. Lower than I'd like, personally, but not unreasonable.
The issue is nerfs like Starving Buzzard, Warsong Commander, and Charge that make cards utterly unplayable. Sure you can take away the effect but at least budget the stats nicely. Why can't Warsong be a 3/4? It won't magically see play in a deck with stone-tusk boars and bluegills. It's more of an issue in arena honestly.
You'll notice the community's attitude towards the dev team has shifted since the Warsong incident. I think the failed promises of standard on top have brought us here.
I'll say that nerfing any further cards should be stopped right now. Can't keep making cards useless just to satisfy some ever changing meta desire. So I don't really care, as long as it's not further card nerfing.
For instance (and I'm 99% sure this card is on Blizz mind specifically): Miracle Rogue should be playable even if you feel Auctioneer is a problem, transfer it to wild for all I care, but nerfing it means you likely just kill off the whole deck, even for people in Wild, where we are supposed to go to be able to play with old style decks.
Uhhh nerfed more dust plz
Does anyone know what cards are on the chopping block yet?
I mean what is staler Standard meta supposed to mean? Are that the only options?
Nerf = Card Extinction
Wild = we are hoping that this will balance itself somehow because for blizzard, it does not exist
Staler Standard Meta = well, design stuff to fresh it up or change Standard if that didnt work so far.
Evergreen set that changes each year (and only the playable stuff ofc)? Come on... that does not make sense. On the long run what playable cards would be left in this set if we take into account that blizzard insists on not buffing cards. This is a joke.
I think that sensible members of the community come out posting at night. They will turn Classic into swiss cheese. They have nerfed 16 Classic/Basic cards in a span that was less than 6 months, first in April and then again in October. The ban hammer will be swung just as frequently.
i see your point, but you have to consider what "fresh it up" means in a card game with a core set. take Frostbolt for example, it is and will be in every mage deck. the only way people(competitive ones especially) would even consider replacing it is if it was powered creeped by another card (i.e. 2 mana deal 4 freeze), and then whats stopping people from just running both? thats the problem. buffing more classic/basic cards adds to this problem. Hearthstone cards power level would spiral out of control if the only way to get people to try new cards is by outdoing the classic cards every rotation.
Man, gamers are the absolute worst. They're the most demanding breed of nerds who refuse to be happy about anything.
When you've spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on something you have a right to be upset. Maybe don't assume things about people and certainly don't assume how they're supposed to feel.
Edit: I noticed you removed the part about nerds not going outside, too late friend! Your upvotes are dead in the water!