Blizzard on X just revealed a new Heroes of StarCraft card: Kerrigan Queen of Blades
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Anyone else that agree that Kerrigans normal/gold card owns her Signature card big time?
lol I think you forgot how this discussion started.
My original message was a response to Moop547, whose initial post was ranting about the developers making hero cards and about how they go in every deck and make all gameplay/deckbuilding the same.
He got downvoted so hard the post is gone now, but you can still see his response quoted where he doubled down on the same opinion
"what about this modern control mirror fiesta using 12 mandatory deck slots dedicated to neutral legendary tech cards you've seen played a thousand times is fun to you?"
That's the point I was responding to, then you bounced in to support him with your above quote.
I've already told you I agree with your new and completely different argument about powerful cards requiring set-up! I like that style of deck building too
did you not see my post yesterday supporting that style of card design? I’m not ignoring your argument, I’m trying to separate it from Moop’s lol
I can totally understand preferring bloodreaver guldan over sargarus from a card design perspective! I don't think that's a bad argument at all.
I think your suggestion for sargerus requiring something before opening the portal is totally cool, and would make deck building more of a puzzle.
I personally prefer decks with deckbuilding restrictions. I started TCG in Yugioh and always chose archetypes that lock you in. I've been trying to make a Reno/excavate/libram deck work every time after I get to legend haha.
My point is just that adding deck building restrictions for powerful cards doesn't actually increase diversity in the meta or deckbuilding.
If we rotate out sargaras for guldan, instead of all control warlocks playing the titan, all control warlocks will play guldan and a high cost demon package
Yeah that was not obvious to me at all lol. The original argument was that powerful cards end up going in every deck and make gameplay/deckbuilding similar.
But now that argument has changed to: powerful cards make SPECIFIC archetypes in SPECIFIC classes gameplay/deckbuilding similar. I mean yeah who wouldn't agree with that lol.
Obviously control warlocks are going to have a lot of cards in common with other control warlocks. Aggro demon hunters are going to have gameplay similar to other aggro demon hunters.
We literally have 11 classes in hearthstone with multiple archetypes and ways to play each class. But if you want there to be multiple ways to deck build control warlocks that all feel different… I don't even know how many cards it would take to make that possible, let alone competitively balanced haha
It’s so weird. Why do you insist on thinking that my point is, "Those cards are bad because they make gameplay/deck-building similar"? I didn’t say anything about that at all. Read my comments again—it’s like you’re ignoring them
My only point, literally, is that "Super powerful cards should not be individually broken."
For example, if Sargeras required extensive deck-building, synergy, or setup, and every Control Warlock deck incorporated it as a result, I would be fine with it. I didn’t complain about Gul'dan, N'Zoth, or C'thun even though they were a core part of majority of decks.
Yeah I guess I am confused? In my mind, your problem does not match your evidence, so I don’t know what you are trying to say.
You’re complaining about powerful cards that go in every deck. I understand that complaint, because that makes decks feel too similar, and deck building / gameplay feel redundant.
but then for evidence you list titans (class specific), hero cards (class specific), Yogg (control decks only), and RENO (deck building restriction). None of those cards are the problem cards making decks feel similar?
If you listed neutral cards that show up in too many decks/classes: ie: oracle, astalor, zilliax, etc.. I would have at least understood what you were talking about.
personally I don’t think every deck/class feels the same to play/build right now, and I wouldn’t say I want less powerful neutral cards than we have currently. I don’t want to take all neutral good cards away, because it’s nice for budget players to have a safe craft
When I said “every deck,” I meant every deck within a specific class or archetype (control, aggro, or combo), obviously.
For example, when I try to build a Handlock deck or a Control Warlock deck, I include Sargeras, the Destroyer without even thinking about it, which is silly. Sargeras is an insanely powerful card that wins many games on its own, even though it has zero synergy with the rest of the deck. It doesn’t require deck-building (e.g., “If all minions in your deck are demons, open Sargeras’ portal”) or any setup (e.g., “If you played 5 demons this game, open Sargeras’ portal”).
On the other hand, cards like Jace Darkweaver or Bloodreaver Gul'dan are also very powerful and can win you many games, but they require you to build your entire deck around them. They serve as the central piece of the deck and have strong synergy with the rest of the cards.
Similarly, N'Zoth, the Corruptor or C'Thun can win games but also demand deck-building and extensive setup.
The funny (and sad) thing is that cards like Reno (pre-nerf) and Sargeras are far more powerful than C’Thun, N’Zoth, or Gul’dan, even though they require no deck-building, synergy, or setup. I’m 100% sure your response will be something like, “Dude, those are old cards. Obviously, they should be weaker than the new ones,” completely ignoring my point.
Super powerful cards should not be individually broken.
By the way, Reno and Highlander cards’ deck-building restrictions aren’t even that significant if your class has good individual control cards. Reno DK, Shaman, and Warrior were viable at one point because their classes had plenty of strong standalone control cards. The idea behind Highlander decks is to include individual high-winrate cards without relying on synergy or a theme.
Highlander cards have a "deck restriction," but they often don’t interact with or rely on the rest of the deck.
i play mostly hunter and tried to build some zerg decks but it wasnt that easy to find good synergy with the existing cards, my concern is that you are going to be out of zerg cards pretty fast and cant make much use of the zerg synergy. Most decks prob going to play Kil jeaden as plan B. I think zerg is missing one specific card ,something like “infest“ a card that gives the whole board or your side the zerg tag so you can make more use of your non zerg cards. not sure if this should be hunter or neutral faction card.
Feels like every AoE printed these days which is tacked onto something also hits the face, why? Golganneth, incindius, magtheridon, malted magma had to get nerfed too.
did you actually play during FF? It was notorious for being one of the worst metagames in HS history. The 2 most common decks were jade druid and big priest. You'd literally face one of those 2 decks in 60% of games for 4 months straight. Neither of those decks ever got nerfed either. At least one saving grace today is that blizz releases a balance patch at least every month.
That is not true at all. It was actually quite a diverse meta, since Druid relied heavily on the late game, and aggro was pretty prevalent (like Pirate Warrior). You had Exodia Mage, Highlander Priest, Token Shaman, Miracle Rogue, etc. Competitively, it was discovered pretty quickly which decks were the strongest.
been playing since closed beta..yeah I played frozen throne
Blizzard business model
Step 1: Make strong hero card that will go in every deck
Step 2: Release Diamond version of card for $50 after a week
Step 3: Need said hero card after pocketing all the loot
This card is cool, but it's completely awful design and is going to be extremely frustrating to play against. Why? You ask. Because hero cards are, were, and WILL ALWAYS BE horrible degenerate and boring overtuned cards. The first iteration in frozen throne were very unfun and made the game significantly worse. The devs even said right before they rotated out of standard that hero cards were a mistake and in concept, they were a fun idea, but it's bad to print cards that the opponent can't interact with that solo the game by themselves. They printed a couple of more that year (year of the raven) but they made sure to tone them down a lot. However, for whatever reason, blizzard doesnt know how to run a company and the dev team behind HS changes more than a game of musical chairs and EVERY single new dev team decides to create hero cards again and EVERY TIME, they have the same problems: Auto include cards that eat a deck slot, not fun to play against and solo the game with 1 card. It's an extremely frustrating and tedius experience to play against an opponent who is playing a control deck and they have a hero card online and you dont because it's a slow-burn that makes you feel like you're behind and cant come back for the next 10 minutes. Theres nothing worse than playing cards from your hand that came from your deck and seeing them die to your opponent's hero power for free.
Blizzard because they don't play their own game prints cards like this and they think to themselves: "HURR DURR. THIS IS A ZERG CARD THAT'LL GO INTO THE ZERG DECKS". In reality, this will go into EVERY DK, hunter, DH and warlock deck until it gets heavily nerfed (unlikely because blizz never nerfs hero cards, titans, colossals and cards like this.) or rotated. Literally the only reason not to play a 7 mana [board clear that deals 3 damage to opponent's face, gives you 5 armor, summons a board of 10 hp of minions, generates 2 cards and then upgrades your HP] is if you're specifically running a deck designed to kill your opponent before turn 6. You're going to play against rainbow DK running 0 zerg cards and this will be in every one of their lists. The next year of HS is going to once again be dominated by neutral cards, so every control mirror will feel exactly the same. To make matters worse, the 3 hero cards are all broken to the point where the game will feel like it only has 3 classes. You're going to be looking at the same jpeg now instead of different class skins because kerrigan, raynor will be played in every game. (artanis is busted too, but he mainly has synergy with protoss cards which pretty much are all bad and his battlecry isnt removal.)
Idk, sounds like a good time to me, I love those games.
why? what about this modern control mirror fiesta using 12 mandatory deck slots dedicated to neutral legendary tech cards you've seen played a thousand times is fun to you? Did you play the game pre 2020 where this wasn't the case and do you think this is an improvement?
The Devs are liars when they say they don't like imbalance. They nerfed Reno recently and said "we NOW realize Reno was OP". Do we seriously believe they didn't know t that when it's the most obvious thing to everyone?
People are so weird. I don’t understand why they always blame the devs. The vast majority of players love those BS cards. The more insane the cards are, the more people like them. Players loved Titans, hero cards, colossals, and any cards of that nature. Just read the comments on any social media post about this card.
The devs are just giving people what they want.
Blame the players, not the devs.
As for me, I agree with the majority of what you said. I only hate hero cards that lack synergy. For example, The Headless Horseman, Lightforged Cariel, Reno, Lone Ranger, Hagatha the Witch, Beaststalker Tavish, Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, and Deathstalker Rexxar are lame and poorly designed. They’re broken individual cards that require zero deck-building, synergy, or setup.
On the other hand, hero cards like Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Xyrella, the Devout are ok because you have to build your deck around them. They are synergistic and serve as core pieces of their decks.
Some other hero cards are fine, but only when the player decides to make them cool. For example, Frost Lich Jaina is fine when you build an actual elemental deck, and Magister Dawngrasp is fine when you build a big-spell mage deck.
This hero card, however, is going to be played in every deck of its faction, which reflects lazy deck-building.
Of course, the players of this game don’t care about deck-building. ‘The card is broken, so it’s cool, fun, and interesting.’
btw, I’m not saying that any synergistic hero card is fine no matter how broken it is.
I hate the logic of "the players love this thing because they play it all the time." Players love winning. They will play whatever makes them win and they will love it. They shouldn't take cards that are overplayed and say "thing is played because players like it!".
The type of player who loves overtuned Timmy cards because they like to win should never be catered to because they will love whatever garbage is the best anyway.
If the expansion does not have those lame cards, people won't buy packs or play. The devs know that so they keep printing those lame cards.
Notice what people say about any insanely powerful card.
As I said before, read the comments on any social media post about this hero card.
I don't blame the devs. I hate the players.
The only thing I want to say is that the devs want to make money, so they give the players what they want: insanely broken cards that win.