Hearthpwn

My thoughts:

Lackey isn't as big of a problem as it seems. Even if you take lackey out of the game completely, you still have to deal with Skull. The busted card in cubelock is Doomguard, specifically, its charge. Switch charge to rush, and it would still be strong, but would not as overwhelming. Most decks can deal with the initial wave, it's the 3-4 doomguards coming back from Gul'Dan that can't be dealt with. 

Spiteful is a touchy one. The thing is, it can be busted as hell, but it is RNG based. Combine that with the fact you have to draw it before you draw your 2-4 big spells, and that you have to gimp your deck with no small spells, and I don't see it as a "must nerf" card, and if they did, I hope it is just adding 1 to the mana cost. 

CTA really isn't the problem with Paladin. Paladin is the problem with Paladin. And by that I mean there is no one card, or even series of cards that really contain that deck. If anything, Divine Favor so they at least can't refill their hand. But when they can flood the board over and over again, and each time have the threat of turning their 1/1 tokens into 3/3 or 5/5 taunts with divine shield ... thats going to be a pain in the ass deck for a while. 

I have had good success with it. IMHO, it is kind of a "Win More" card for Spiteful Priest. From my experience, the big advantage isn't when it buffs your big minions, it is when it buffs your little stuff. Having Tar Creeper as a 5/5, or even a Cleric as a 3/3 is a pretty big difference. 

Actually, Ben didn't get fired. Blizzard just suggested that he needed a small nerf to help balance the team. But, unfortunately, Ben found out that like so many of he other attempts at balance changes, he made himself completely useless, and he is not completely unplayable.  

Had decent success with Big Spell Mage. I usually will poly 1 big taunt, and then try to save the other poly to try to catch Hadronox, or a cube. Getting the 1 sheep in mix is the key, as it will make their Witching Hour a 50/50 instead of a guaranteed Hadronox. 

Overall, I wouldn't call it a "counter" deck, because at best, it is a toss up, but it also does really well against Cubes and Spiteful, and destroys Paladin nearly every time. 

Quote from Kaladin >>

 

Quote from csguba >>

Drugs are bad m'kay

 speculation and jumping to conclusions is bad, m'kay?

 

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Paladin is not a class that needs a nerf. Rather, the team needs to develop better cards for the other classes to compete with Paladin. Paladin just has a great deal of generating ability (call to arms, etc) and also surprising decent threat removal (equality in particular). Also, as noted by other posters, even if the board is wiped, it's easy for Paladin to flood it again. But there's no one card that's the problem. Even if your nerf CTA, Paladin will survive (and Odd Paladin won't even notice.)

By contrast, there are individual cards that in my view should never have been created at all. Spiteful Summoner decks are now absurd. The power they can create on turn 6 (or 5 + coin) is disgusting.

Warlock's Cubelock nonsense in turn forces other classes to play around it, thus pushing insane aggro decks in particular. The legendary weapon or even the Lackey are prime targets to be changed so this deck is less oppressive. Or, the Cube, which is also now corrupting Druid players, with the new popular version of that deck. The power value from the Cube in these two classes is just too much.

Last year, Barnes was the biggest problem. Thank God we have yet to see a new Barnes-like card emerge.

And even with a huge push for Warrior this expansion, that class remains in the dumpster. Same with Shaman.

I am not in the gaming industry but it is really surprising to me how even with the start of a new Hearthstone year, the development team can't manage to make every class attractive and approximately evenly balanced.

Was there ever such a golden era of Hearthstone?

 

 

I'm usually not a big fan of nerfs, mostly because they don't equalize a decks power, but instead, they just kill it completely. 

But, I really think something has got to be done about Paladin. The problem is ... there isn't a good "something" out there. It's not just a card, or even a couple of cards that bust the deck. I have said before, it is the prefect storm. 

"But it can be countered" Yes, it can ... sometimes. I have a very good "Anti-Paladin" deck, Big Spell Mage. But for example, I just lost a match where I killed 42 minions, in 12 turns, and lost when on Turns 13-14, he was able to refill the board, again, with 6 more Dudes, and hit them with both Level Up!. You can only put so much AOE in a deck. And seriously, generating 48 minions in 14 turns is absurd. 

Like I said, I don't want it nerfed to the ground. And I am not against having powerful aggro decks. But, IMHO, the whole class is too OP right now. It is worse than Druid ever was in "Druidstone" days. It has what, the top 5 decks I believe. That is a problem even Brode can't ignore. It is forcing the meta to counter it, and preventing a lot of new creativity with the new cards. 

Sadly, this is possibly a better nerf subject than the 5 page rant we had about nerfing Silence yesterday ... :-( 

So here we are a few days in, and here are my thoughts so far.

Actually having more "fun" than I thought I would, and more than it seems others are. Haven't made much actual progress on the ladder, just bouncing all around the 10-6 ranks, but I haven't really been focused on rank. 

There are a lot of deck ideas out there, but from a ladder standpoint, they are being stifled by Warlock and Paladin. 

Speaking of Warlock and Paladin. I really hope Blizz does something, and sooner rather than later. They both need some type of nerf. It might not be so bad if they were decks that had come from the new expansion, but it really sucks that even with a new xpac, and a rotation, that we are still dealing with them. Don't get me wrong, both decks can be beaten, but IMHO, they are limiting creativity with all the new cards because if you want to win, you are forced to build decks around beating one or the other (or, just play one or the other). 

On the Warlock side, I think changing Doomguard to Rush instead of Charge, and limit the heals from Dark Pact would still allow the deck to be powerful, but would at tone it down a notch. Cut Dark Pact back to heal for 3, and see if that is enough. 

As for Paladin ... I'm not sure how to handle that monster. It's really not just CTA. They archetype is almost a perfect storm. There isn't a lot of single card nerfs that will really slow it down. One thought that comes to mind is to remove Sunkeeper Tarim from the discovery list of Stonehill Defender, either completely, or if possible, only in Odd decks. Losing Tarim was supposed to be one of the big sacrifices of choosing Odd, but when you are almost guaranteed to get it from Stonehill, it's not much of a loss. Other than that ... I don't know what could be done about it. It just has too many buffs ... weapons, Level Up, Raid Leader .... and the fact that it can fill the board in 1-2 turns, repeatedly, and refill their hand ... yeah, it's going to be something to deal with for a long time to come. 

But, enough about nerfs ... that really wasn't the point of this thread. Let's keep it positive. 

Really liking Lady in White priest. Very strong deck, and definitely not an "auto pilot" list. Has the ability to win against almost anything with good draw, and I think with more refinement, could be a high tier deck. 

Quest's are back! Quest Warrior has been fun to play with. Quest Hunter looks like it could come out of the jungle and be a contender. 

Haven't given up on Shaman just yet. I think all the hype (and hate) with Shudderwok has kept and really good decks from being found. I think the tools are there, and it may or may not include Shudderwok. The OTK lists are fun to play, but the animation issue ruins it, IMHO, for both players. I don't like playing it any more than I like having it played against me, to be honest. 

Mage has some good potential with Elemental decks. Biggest issue there is that they all rely so much on Jaina. If she hangs out at the bottom of the deck (like she seems to do so damn often), they are pretty tough to win with ... but get her out on 8 or 9, and oh man, the late game is tough to beat. 


Anyway ... thats my thoughts. How about yours? I tried to keep this as positive as possible since there is so much negativity out there right now. Overall, I am happy with WW, but not overly happy.  

 

Quote from Splatacleze >>

 

Quote from TommyG0713 >>

Yes, this thread so much. With Baku and Genn out, I accept no excuses for my disappointment in stale encounters. Yes, I am as eager to get winning with Odd hunter by t7 down just like the rest of us baddies. But those two legendaries mean there are 27+ different deck structures out there, and so it's sad to see so many recycled Dudeadins.

 

 Agreed with Dudeadins, but even still... there's three styles of it with odd/even/neither. I feel like there's so much potential deckmaking with this expansion... I just fear we will see the same 4-6 decks way too early.

Reduce his mana cost to 6 so you could combo it with a board clear, taunt minion, or Eternal Servitude.

4 mana available would really make this card much different from 3.

I could make most of them after $50. You're managing your resources poorly

This deck is nutso. I made some small adjustments. I swapped a To My Side for an extra Flare, as I think mage will be a huge impact this meta. On a 8 game win streak atm. Will let you guys know how it goes. I think Lesser Emerald Spellstone is busted already! Rank 6 atm.

He seems pretty decent in evolve shaman, you can run some crazed alchemists and moat lurkers in that to activate the chest and evolve transforms him into a 9 drop, deathseer transforms him into a 10 drop.

Quote from dontbemad >>

ok so first of all, the guy up to me has no idea.

the zoolock decklist which he linked from front page is totally outdated! pirate package has been cut days ago for Flappy Birds and def. of argus is just stupid.

on lower ranks I would suggest you to play zoolock because it is faster to grind, I did my legend push with it this season with 21-7 (75% winrate) from rank 4 to Legend. At high legend ranks I am playing rogue atm and personally I hate the corpsetaker version.

I tested all rogue lists and I have best results with flappy birds + Lich King list which is pretty new.

Clearly you did the buff because nogfongr or whatever her name is, is a 3/4. Also the prince doesn't buff itself.

Edit: oh sorry that could be argus. Maybe you accidentally had another 2 drop in deck? Oh wait, you got nogfongr lol, she's a 2 drop, you must've had it in your deck when you play the prince. :)

I can't remember the last time Doomguard didn't discard Bloodreaver Gul'dan or Bonemare.