He's referring to decklists like this. Edit: By the way, the reason they run Vicious Scalehide is to help make the deck able to come back from taking a beating against aggro decks, which is this archetype's weakness. I'm sure you knew that, but I didn't really understand how important that was until I tried it.
After a bunch of testing, I found I drew 1 of my 4 echo cards and 1 of my 4 bounce cards by turn 6 about 90% of the time, increases consistency dramatically. Works best with Phantom Militia and Shadowstep. Gameplan is to play the echo card twice on 6 and shadowstep, then play 3 copies on turn 7.
I'd recommend trying it and see if you think it's worth it. Personally, I find the consistency of it is good enough to build the entire deck around so you can fit more to fight for the board early.
There are some interesting possibilities with this card, but I think Kathrena Winterwisp is likely the most intentional synergy. Just note that if you draw your last deathrattle, text becomes worthless. We'll have to see.
Meh, after trying out Bilefin Tidehunter, I found it was alright, but it never did enough against pirate warrior. I still haven't played against a pirate warrior since the change I made, but I have a 100% winrate so far against all hunter decks. Could be variance, we'll see.
So far, Stonehill Defender has been great in non aggro matchups as it can get you a lot more value than the Bilefin Tidehunter can. Once, I got a Stubborn Gastropod against a handlock to help me clear some of his big guys. I got a stroke of luck this time not hitting any aggro decks as of yet. Stomping my way back up the ladder, now officially rank 6 again.
I've reached rank 5 now with the deck and Stonehill Defender hasn't brought down the winrate of this deck against control at all. It's also pretty great in the mirror against quest rogue when your opponent plays Igneous Elemental and it also helps protect against those pesky Flame Elementals. Even though I haven't seen it in the aggro matchup against pirate warrior, I'm very certain the card is amazing in that matchup.
I wanted to ask here what you guys think about running Stonehill Defender in the deck. Think about it, it's great against aggro, it's fairly cheap, it likes to be Shadowstepped, it gets you fuel against control decks, and it can discover itself which can help out with completing the quest.
If you have a clear idea on which minion you want to bounce for that game, make sure to hold on to that in your hand until you can guarantee bounce it back to your hand. You also want to try to keep charge minions in your hand unless you're fighting against aggro. Otherwise, play whatever you can. The name of the game is to stall and complete your quest.
From the testing I've done, Vanish seems alright, but I'm a little concerned about the matchup against quest decks, especially taunt warrior and the mirror, quest rogue. In the mirror, it was a completely dead card. Against taunt warrior, however, I didn't end up getting punished for playing it. Game came down to a 50/50 with their hero power and I got the better end of the deal.
I think Vanish is a questionable card to run. It's situationally great, but sometimes your opponent has charge minions on the board or they complete their quest quicker. Depending on the final meta, I think this card might see play, depends.
Patches the Pirate adds some extra reach after Crystal Core has been played. It hasn't even been a few games, it's been 1 of every 10 games that are won that way. Being able to play Southsea Deckhand and a Stonetusk Boar while Patches the Pirate gets pulled from the deck is pretty significant. That's 15 burst damage instead of 10 because I put patches in the deck.
I'm reluctant to cut the card, but I'll try it at some point. Maybe it can work.
I like the idea of cutting Fan of Knives for Vanish. They both fulfill similar purposes, yet one is more lategame, plus it can help complete the quest.
In my opinion, you can beat any deck that isn't aggro with this list already, so I'm looking at fighting aggro. There is only one matchup that is really bad and that's aggro druid. I'm not sure if vanish comes out a turn or two too late or not, but it'd be interesting to see.
Swashburglar was the only card that I felt was weak enough to cut for something else. I feel that it's too inconsistent to use effectively. If you're facing more aggro, try adding in some anti aggro cards. Earthen Ring Farseer, Tar Creeper, Bilefin Tidehunter, and Golakka Crawler are some suggestions for anti aggro that could maybe fit.
One matchup that's really bad is aggro druid. If you're facing a lot of them or a lot of control decks, try out Vanish like everybody else says. Personally, I think the card's too slow; it comes out about the turn you want to complete your quest or play your quest reward.
I'm running a very similar deck, but I've made some further changes beyond the ones made here since day 1. If anybody else is interested, maybe spread the word on some of these ideas for changes, or just look into it yourself.
What's funny is this card is actually also great in discard zoo as well as the new discard control archetype. Awesome card, love it. Potentially means we have 3 archetypes for warlock at a time.
0
He's referring to decklists like this. Edit: By the way, the reason they run Vicious Scalehide is to help make the deck able to come back from taking a beating against aggro decks, which is this archetype's weakness. I'm sure you knew that, but I didn't really understand how important that was until I tried it.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1098234-rank-1-legend-rages-quest-rogue
Also, I'd like to explain my echo combo again, hopefully you understand it this time.
Concept: Just put in 2 copies of Phantom Militia and hard mulligan for them and Shadowstep every game
Turn 6: Phantom Militia, Phantom Militia, Shadowstep
Turn 7: Phantom Militia, Phantom Militia, Phantom Militia
Turn 8: Crystal Core
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Have you considered the new echo cards?
After a bunch of testing, I found I drew 1 of my 4 echo cards and 1 of my 4 bounce cards by turn 6 about 90% of the time, increases consistency dramatically. Works best with Phantom Militia and Shadowstep. Gameplan is to play the echo card twice on 6 and shadowstep, then play 3 copies on turn 7.
I'd recommend trying it and see if you think it's worth it. Personally, I find the consistency of it is good enough to build the entire deck around so you can fit more to fight for the board early.
0
There are some interesting possibilities with this card, but I think Kathrena Winterwisp is likely the most intentional synergy. Just note that if you draw your last deathrattle, text becomes worthless. We'll have to see.
0
Meh, after trying out Bilefin Tidehunter, I found it was alright, but it never did enough against pirate warrior. I still haven't played against a pirate warrior since the change I made, but I have a 100% winrate so far against all hunter decks. Could be variance, we'll see.
0
So far, Stonehill Defender has been great in non aggro matchups as it can get you a lot more value than the Bilefin Tidehunter can. Once, I got a Stubborn Gastropod against a handlock to help me clear some of his big guys. I got a stroke of luck this time not hitting any aggro decks as of yet. Stomping my way back up the ladder, now officially rank 6 again.
I've reached rank 5 now with the deck and Stonehill Defender hasn't brought down the winrate of this deck against control at all. It's also pretty great in the mirror against quest rogue when your opponent plays Igneous Elemental and it also helps protect against those pesky Flame Elementals. Even though I haven't seen it in the aggro matchup against pirate warrior, I'm very certain the card is amazing in that matchup.
0
I wanted to ask here what you guys think about running Stonehill Defender in the deck. Think about it, it's great against aggro, it's fairly cheap, it likes to be Shadowstepped, it gets you fuel against control decks, and it can discover itself which can help out with completing the quest.
What do you think? Cut Bilefin Tidehunter for it?
0
If you have a clear idea on which minion you want to bounce for that game, make sure to hold on to that in your hand until you can guarantee bounce it back to your hand. You also want to try to keep charge minions in your hand unless you're fighting against aggro. Otherwise, play whatever you can. The name of the game is to stall and complete your quest.
0
From the testing I've done, Vanish seems alright, but I'm a little concerned about the matchup against quest decks, especially taunt warrior and the mirror, quest rogue. In the mirror, it was a completely dead card. Against taunt warrior, however, I didn't end up getting punished for playing it. Game came down to a 50/50 with their hero power and I got the better end of the deal.
I think Vanish is a questionable card to run. It's situationally great, but sometimes your opponent has charge minions on the board or they complete their quest quicker. Depending on the final meta, I think this card might see play, depends.
2
Servers are all down at the time of this reply, but I plan on trying out vanish in place of one fan of knives.
0
Patches the Pirate adds some extra reach after Crystal Core has been played. It hasn't even been a few games, it's been 1 of every 10 games that are won that way. Being able to play Southsea Deckhand and a Stonetusk Boar while Patches the Pirate gets pulled from the deck is pretty significant. That's 15 burst damage instead of 10 because I put patches in the deck.
I'm reluctant to cut the card, but I'll try it at some point. Maybe it can work.
0
I like the idea of cutting Fan of Knives for Vanish. They both fulfill similar purposes, yet one is more lategame, plus it can help complete the quest.
In my opinion, you can beat any deck that isn't aggro with this list already, so I'm looking at fighting aggro. There is only one matchup that is really bad and that's aggro druid. I'm not sure if vanish comes out a turn or two too late or not, but it'd be interesting to see.
I'll try it out.
0
Swashburglar was the only card that I felt was weak enough to cut for something else. I feel that it's too inconsistent to use effectively. If you're facing more aggro, try adding in some anti aggro cards. Earthen Ring Farseer, Tar Creeper, Bilefin Tidehunter, and Golakka Crawler are some suggestions for anti aggro that could maybe fit.
One matchup that's really bad is aggro druid. If you're facing a lot of them or a lot of control decks, try out Vanish like everybody else says. Personally, I think the card's too slow; it comes out about the turn you want to complete your quest or play your quest reward.
0
Check out my list below. Might help.
0
I'm running a very similar deck, but I've made some further changes beyond the ones made here since day 1. If anybody else is interested, maybe spread the word on some of these ideas for changes, or just look into it yourself.
My decklist and explanations on what cards I included: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/793826-rrls-caverns-rogue-rank-6
0
What's funny is this card is actually also great in discard zoo as well as the new discard control archetype. Awesome card, love it. Potentially means we have 3 archetypes for warlock at a time.