Hearthpwn

Yeah, when I saw that card I was like: "Is this really the power level we're at?" Because I imagine most people would probably even say like he's "too slow" and I mean that's just... You can literally get an infinite deck of larger and larger Demons, a win-condition on its own without any setup or anything and it's not even good enough for 2024 Hearthstone? Just compare that to 2014 Dr. Boom that for the same Mana and stats just summoned two 1/1 Boom Bots that dealt a little bit of damage on death. And to top it of it was considered OP at the time. What in the World has Hearthstone become?

To be honest with that card I somewhat gave up on Hearthstone. It's pretty clear now that they ideally want fast games that end before turn 7 or a little bit after. That way this kind of power level at that point in the game makes sense again. Now you might wonder how to even get this card by turn 7 consistently. But the trick is to not rely on just one crazy strong card. There are various cards with about that power level that each do something a little different and you have them all in the deck. For example I made a thematic Demonlock with Jaraxxus, Sargeras, and Kil'jaedan. Yeah, I actually played those because I really liked the idea of a cool Demonlock deck. But indeed it wasn't really that much fun to me.

It's not like those cards are necessarily too powerful in comparison to other decks and strategies out it's just unfun. By about turn 7 the game basically turn into "Who has drawn their OP card and get the game to the next level?" And of course you would play that crazy strong card regardless and not hold back and wait for the opponent to make the first move. But if the other player can't mirror that power spike in their own way the game just ends in a few turns often. So yes, sometimes the game can still stay interesting and all but also often they just end. So that's the reason I don't like those cards. They often make the games less fun. And at least for me I can also say that as the player playing those type of cards.

The worst thing is really that those type of cards have basically become a normality. Already in the past when I said similar stuff about Lor'themar most people I played with usually said like "It's not even a good card.", "It's too slow", etc. So even when I think about friendly games it becomes harder and harder to find people. I would have to say all those unfun cards and then they would also need to agree. It's just like I said before: They really want you to play a certain way. Most likely it's even coming from the player base itself. I imagine most players actually like it more this way.

Honestly I'm not even sure how you could fix it for people like me that like it a bit different, not so crazy insane fast. Some more social features to better meet other players would be a good start. But what did they do instead? Even remove the feature with the most social potential: Fireside Gatherings. Imagine exactly that but just everything online. I'm sure it would be possible. But alas it seems like this is not how they want this game to evolve.

But there's actually one thing I'm still looking forward to: Undergrounds Arena. That sounds like it could be fun and much more to my liking. Normal Arena was often like too "dull" and "static" for me. But if it actually feels a bit like Duels but without the Constructed element (so more like actual "Adventure but Multiplayer") I think I might enjoy that.

Let's complete the cycle. Every class gets a rag. Wild Beasty Ragnaros for Hunter/Druid, Shadowy Skeleton Ragnaros for Death Knight/Rogue, and last but not least Arcane Mystical Ragnaros for Mage(and Monk in case they add it).

No? I mean to be fair I don't want to play the game how most people play it and that's fair enough; I know that I'm in a small minority here. But I'm pretty sure until now it was always possible to get all the basic versions of the cards with money. We had exclusive cosmetic for a long time and that's... also annoying yes, but at least the base game you could always get whatever you wanted by spending money. Of course also in that regard most people don't care so much about it. I think I said that, right? Yeh; this is the part that many people probably either miss or dismiss:

To be fair most people don't even like to play that way. But maybe in the future I thought we could have more social stuff like groups and I could play with people that are more like me.

I guess most people don't want that some weirdos like me to enjoy the game a bit differently. I really shouldn't comment here, right? I just always have the hope because in the past at least a few people were a little bit like me. But I can see now. Times have changed. Thanks for making it more clear to me I suppose.

I can pretty much agree with everything said. It's gotten so out of control that most of the time the game is basically over on like turn 5. And if not then something like Kil'jaeden on 7 with larger and larger Demons seals the deal within a few turns. And I try to play with my funny Yogg Mage generating and Discovering random spells or with Rogue random stuff from other classes...

To be fair I never really liked decks that were "competitive" but I would at least like to have a decent chance at it. Already the past few years with those types of decks I like to play I had to get lucky with the perfect card so often to even have a chance... with a lucky Yogg... Nowadays... the same except I need to get the perfect card every single time basically.

Yeah, the game has kinda reached a point where it all feels rather pointless. Because what I would need in order to just stand a chance I think I wouldn't even like to play. It kind of reminds me personally of Legends of Runeterra actually. At first I was rather excited but after trying out some stuff I realized that even if you "do your cool thing" it's just gonna steamroll your opponent and the game just ends. I remember how it was also rather rare to get to max. Mana. Something that nowadays is also true of HS, isn't it?

I still think HS could be such a fun game. For example focusing more on the actual act of just playing cool cards maybe? I would really like to see something that feels more like Slay the Spire. You constantly get cards to play with and you need to figure out how to make the best use of them. With more reoccurring cards and play patterns throughout the game until you can forge your way to victory. Well, maybe that will always remain a dream of mine but... yeah, that's what I would like to see. And if you compare that to what we have right now... I mean you have pretty much infinite value everywhere but basically the moment the opponent can't turn the tides immediately with some broken shit it's over for them. And that's just... so lame... Why am I even playing the game? I wonder that more and more every time I keep coming back to play a bit...

Just recently I discovered a new game that just launched into closed beta and I'm having so much more fun with that at the moment. It's called The Bazaar. An autobattler but you're also on an adventure with PvE encounters and Events, not just one Shop where you constantly just press the reroll button. Imagine HS getting some good new adventure like Dalaran Heist or Tombs of Terror at their time. Nah, doesn't make enough profit. Well... understandable, have a nice day.

I will stick around for Battlegrounds Duos because I really enjoy that. But other than that, I'm not so sure anymore. Playing with friends can still be fun but... I don't think many people play the game that way so... that may remain very difficult. Especially with no good social functions. And if anything it really feels like the game becomes less and less social year after year. I don't think this is a good thing.

Yeah, with no major changes to HS and if The Bazaar continues to be as incredible as it currently is I might eventually drop HS entirely for good. Maybe HS has just become a game that I do not enjoy anymore and that is okay. The only thing I would miss is Yogg.

Quote from Ophion-EU >>

Since the multiplayer is asynchronous I assume you never play against the same opponent twice, so there's no countering or adapting to the opposition (other than the overall meta)?

Besides the items directly in front of you there's also a chest in the lower left hand corner. Here you can see items taken out of the chest. Against a PvP opponent you can see right after that you do not see their layout. So it seems like you would have to guess. Maybe it would be too much information and you could easily counter too many things too easily. Maybe there will be a skill that allows you to see more. Maybe it will also change during the beta. But the option to have tech items you could use to counter or adapt is there.

Edit: Kripp also talked about it. Here he talks about the PvP encounters. Yes, it's one for one and then whatever you faced is out of the pool. And I would also agree that it's better this way.

Quote from MintMurderMedia>>

I recommend posting links and what not. Making people do research on a topic you made seems lazy.

It's an upcoming game that goes into closed beta on October 30 and from what I've seen it looks phenomenal. I wasn't that excited about something since I got into Hearthstone during the closed beta about 11 years ago.

You can think of it like a mix between Battlegrounds and the old dungeon run style single player adventures. It's essentially an autobattler but you're going on a journey with many different encounters like shops, events, and fights where you can constantly add, swap, or improve stuff in your build/loadout. The most important aspect, at least for me: It has no timer. And yet it still can be called a multiplayer game. They do this by basically making snapshots of other player's builds/loudouts at whatever stage of the game the fight takes place. It's an autobattler after all so you don't need the other player watching; players can't interact in the actual fight anyway.

I can't wait for the closed beta to go live.

Official Website

Some Gameplay

What are your thoughts on it?

Edit: Added links.

Imagine if Quasar instead of the competitive deck cost reduction effect would have something fun like "Fill your hand with random cards from other classes". Now that would be much more interesting. Maybe would need other adjustments to be playable though. Variable mana cost depending on hand size like The Sunwell would make sense. Yeah, that would be awesome. Sadly they often settle for rather competitive effects/cards like these. Well, at least some of the other Rogue cards look fun.

Quote from SlowestBro >>

try to avoid ranking into diamond

LOL - The highest I've ever gotten was gold. How many games does that even take? I always hear it from others and it seems like for many it's nothing special but I can't even imagine it. Maybe the type of decks I like to play are worse than I thought. Also it was like 5 years ago when I tried and I feel like those decks are getting worse every expansion. But maybe I've gotten better in the meantime. Still I don't see any chance of me getting to platinum even if I played a lot.

And yeah, the meta decks and people that are just AFK too! There's just so much annoying stuff in Casual. Ranked probably is the way to go.

What do you play? When do you play one over the other?

Even after all this time I'm still unsure about where I should play. It seems obvious but is it really?

I like to play "casually" just for fun with silly decks like Yogg Mage. I don't care so much about winning, "ranking up", or those rewards there. So naturally I play in Casual.

Problem: Other people may not care about playing the intended game at all in Casual. For example just doing quest X and since "it's just Casual" they don't even care about trying to play properly to begin with. Maybe when their quest is finished or they can't work anymore towards it they just leave. Some people may just pass the turn or play Suicide Warlock. That's not very fun at all.

So should I rather play Ranked then? And if yes it also begs the question what Casual is even for then.

Indeed I tried in the past and have to say that sometimes it does seem to be better. At least people there are serious about playing the game more often than not.

Problem: It seems very counter intuitive and wrong to play Ranked if you just want to play for fun. For example there are so many "OP broken decks" nowadays I could and would just concede to on turn 1 because they're so efficient that it's either win or lose by turn 4 and I have no interest in such a game. But in Ranked where it's all about winning and people play the best (and therefore most "OP" and most "broken") deck possible this is to be expected and you can't be mad at it. I do understand that. If people really want to play like that for whatever reason I don't mind. But I would rather play more "casually" just for fun. So should I then...

What I would really like to know is where do you play if you play "just for fun". Because I know there are at least a few more out there that play such "just for fun decks" like Yogg Mage. Where do you play? Where do you think it's easier and more likely to have a fun time?

(I'm also asking because ultimately friendly games are superior but you need friends for that. So I wonder where it's more likely to find other people like me that play just for fun with decks like Yogg Mage. Rubinlibelle#2843 on EU if anyone wants to add me btw.)

Oh, they don't stack? Wow, that's really underwhelming. I thought you could just hold it and then it would be like Yogg. But I guess it's a Druid card. This time it's one of the underpowered cards to compensate for the overpowered ones. Game balancing 101 by Team 5. Of course only applies to Druid. Because reasons.

Yeah, I guess that's what I mean basically. It seems it actually is hard to understand? To me it's just so obvious. How can I explain it better?

I play to have fun playing random cards; trying to make the best of the stuff that I get and the more variety the better. But most importantly it also should be "meaningful" if that makes sense. As in if I play badly I might lose and if I play well I might win. And for that the opponent also needs to "play to win" and not "I'm just doing a quest/achievement". That's the problem.

In essence the problem here is that there's no tension. It's just super dull and uninteresting. They'll just do their own thing and then leave. That's always the worst. It feels like they just used you. Sometimes I wish the innkeeper would keep playing at least, lol. Then I would get a decent game for once actually! lol How about improving practice mode so you can play against your own decks. But I guess the A.I. might not play all that well so it might not be that much fun. Still I think I would play a lot against the innkeeper if you could give him your decks. I actually did try some adventures but the problem is normal is baby mode but for heroic you have almost no chance with a normal deck. So that isn't actually that much fun unfortunately.

Instead you have to resort to "normal" play and that often isn't great; at least for me. In Ranked you face crazy OP decks and you can't complain because that's just competitive play. I absolutely understand that. That's to be expected there. But guess what happens in Casual. People go there often for those quests and to have their "non-games". The problem is they are basically not playing the game or at best playing a completely different game. For example Suicide Warlock. You had no idea beforehand that the goal suddenly is the opposite. How can you even "win" now? You can't. It's over.

Is it really so hard to understand that I would just like to have a nice decent game where both people have an about equal chance and where hopefully a lot of cool and interesting stuff is happening and with a lot of back and forth and so on? Instead whenever I say it the basic response is always the same: "It's a free win for you. Be happy about it." No! That's not why I'm playing the game! Why would I ever be happy about such an outcome? I really don't get those people. I only see by the downvotes that I'm indeed in a minority with this. I really don't understand. It makes no sense to me.

No...?

What's so hard to understand?

I don't understand how so many people like those "free wins" so much. Imagine a Rock-Paper-Scissors game but it's coded so that you'll always win. Sounds like a terrible game. Maybe I'm missing something crucial but I really don't get those people. For me there's no fun if the opponent doesn't try to win. What's the point of playing then? To win? Even if it's meaningless? ... Your profile picture fits perfectly here. But why? Why do people do this? Makes no sense to me.

I guess I just have to keep trying to make new friends to play with. Today actually 2 people accepted. Only to then remove me again a few sentences into our conversation. Yeah, Hearthstone is not a great game if you're looking for more friends to just have fun with. The 10 year anniversary would've been the perfect opportunity to launch some great social features. But no, of course they just continue doing some bare minimum to get the maximum profit.

Maybe that's why I hate it that much. This "min-max" type of attitude you see everywhere. It almost always makes things worse. And yet so many mindlessly do it. To what end? But people don't think about that. Just keep doing it and hope for the best. You know, my favorite deck is Yogg Mage. But you don't just mindlessly play whatever random and discovered stuff you get. It can be very important when and how you make use of something.

Sadly it seems most people don't like to play that way and needless to say with that deck type I lose very often because it's basically "too fair". And yet I know how awesome and fun the game can be with the right people and with the right decks.

I think quests are not good for the game.

I remember how before the rewards track and rewards XP I thought it would be much better if instead of quests we would have some kind of XP towards our rewards. The formula for the "normal" XP seemed pretty much perfect. What they did is nothing like that and just made everything more complicated and harder to evaluate. The variety of rewards that the system offers is the only good thing about it.

The question is why are quests so important and do they even work for their intended purpose.

From Blizzard's perspective it works as it keeps people to come back and "do their quests". So it makes sense they didn't want to remove them entirely. 

But what about the player perspective? I think there are some reasons why quests instead of just plain more rewards for playing more is good. It can give people incentive to play a certain deck, try out some new strategy or class, or even inspire to build a new deck.

From my experience though it rarely get people to actually be creative. The best example I have is "Play X drink spells". I actually tried to make a meme deck with it and I was playing seriously. To some extent. I'm not a "tryhard", I only play for fun. My "win condition" was Yogg-Saron powered up by all the drink spells. I used Priest to bring back Drink Servers over and over. But what do some people do I faced with the same quest? Quickly kill their Drink Server themselves and mindlessly play the drinks ASAP. They don't care about the actual game. They didn't even try. They just wanted to "get their quest done" and then leave.

So for that reason I think quests are not all that great and I rather dislike them to be honest. I wish they would remove them and adjust the formula on when you get how much XP. And I think how it works with "normal" XP is how it should be.

Of course that would no sense for Blizzard to do because the quest system keeps some people coming back. I'm just saying that for us, the players, I think it would be mostly beneficial to actually not have quests at all and instead we would passively get more rewards XP than we do right now.