Hearthpwn

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

 

Quote from sharifoe >>

 

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

 

Quote from Kill_Dash_Nine >>

Nerf has very little impact. This card ruins the meta. Forces everyone to play aggro to counter and kills the control meta. This card needs the War Commander treatment. Better yet remove it from the game already. This is the only nerf of the 6 cards where Blizzard has failed. 

Aggro kills many control metas. People keep pretending that Quest Rogue accomplished this. Or am I wrong considering Quest Rogue did not exist during Undertaker Hunter, Secret Pally, Smorc Shaman, and the initial pirate warrior metas?

Many midrange decks also served to force players to play aggro instead of control. Remember midrange shaman?

Quest Rogue did not suddenly create this problem and anyone who thinks so clearly had their heads in the sand when considering previous heavy hitter meta decks from the past.

The decks you mention did not have a 90% win-rate over an entire archetype. Quest Rogue does not allow counter play-- you just watch them do their thing bouncing, freezing minions, and then healing outside of range with scalehide. Blizzard has created cards for Control where Control is favored against Aggro nowadays. The decks you mentioned were top tier ( some got nerfed into the ground specifically Undertaker Hunter with Undertaker and Buzzard,)  but there was usually counter play available while still keeping the integrity of an archetype. That doesn't exist with Quest Rogue. If Quest Rogue is meta, one simply cannot play Control archetypes. Control archetypes generally utilize the most critical thinking minus the recent Warlock decks that thankfully got nerfed. When you play a game that requires thinking, it adds enjoyment and grounds to make the game competitive. To elaborate on the issue, some of players for HCT found great success by choosing Control heavy decks and just banning any Quest Rogue they came across.  

Quest Rogue will continue to be a 50% or sub-50% deck that's only purpose is to ensure Control will not be meta until it gets phased out of Standard. 

So let me get this straight, you just said that Blizzard has created cards that generally puts control in more favorable positions when facing aggro, and when a different deck that beats control is still around the deck should be nerfed. Almost sounds like you're wanting an unfair rock-paper-scissors game where rock is weak to nothing.

I'd beg to differ that there is no counter play to the deck. The problem is T5 rotated it out of the standard format and made nothing to replace it and atm seem against bringing cards from wild to be placed into the classic set for tech. The counter play still exists in wild. Is it the deck's fault that T5 is incompetent when knowing how they should handle tech cards in the standard format?

Personally, I don't really consider control to be that awe-inspiring when it comes to critical thinking. The most effort I have to do when playing my control lock (not cube lock) is a 200 IQ defile turn, that is it. Control Mage, while slightly more thought-provoking, still isn't that complicated. Sit on answers forever, bait removal from classes that have fewer answers than you, hero power and pass if you face no pressure and are winning in fatigue (forcing your opponent to make moves). Yep, so much thought required there. Combo decks are generally where the real thinking is required (barring almost any priest otk that revolves around shadow visions, as well as excluding cubelock).

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

 

Quote from Kill_Dash_Nine >>

Nerf has very little impact. This card ruins the meta. Forces everyone to play aggro to counter and kills the control meta. This card needs the War Commander treatment. Better yet remove it from the game already. This is the only nerf of the 6 cards where Blizzard has failed. 

Aggro kills many control metas. People keep pretending that Quest Rogue accomplished this. Or am I wrong considering Quest Rogue did not exist during Undertaker Hunter, Secret Pally, Smorc Shaman, and the initial pirate warrior metas?

Many midrange decks also served to force players to play aggro instead of control. Remember midrange shaman?

Quest Rogue did not suddenly create this problem and anyone who thinks so clearly had their heads in the sand when considering previous heavy hitter meta decks from the past.

Quote from AkiraTerion >>

Quote from sharifoe >>

 Quest Rogue dumpsters control and gets dumpster'd by aggro. The deck limits the archetypes available and the expectations of the game. Right now in hearthstone, the match is decided based on what archetype you select ( control, aggro, or quest rogue.) It's rare to play a game where your decisions and resource management matter. That's the problem Quest Rogue creates. It creates the issue of "what should I queue up with?" Right now to climb ladder, you need a control, aggro, and quest rogue deck. Then you alternate your deck depending on what you're facing the most. It polarizes the game and we're pretty much playing rock-paper-scissors. Card games are generally more enjoyable when you have to think about decision making in-game-- not decision making of what to queue. 

Except that midrange Druid is one of the most successful decks in the meta, and stands only to grow in power post nerf to Paladin and Warlock.  And I'm sorry, but you basically just said that Quest Rogue conforms to the mid-range archetype of getting smoked by aggro and rolling control.  So one more time, what's so out of proportion, un-fun or ridiculous about this archetype?  It's literally holding the same position, with a lower win-rate than Spiteful Druid.  (Which, by the by, a 1 mana nerf isn't going to disturb nearly so badly as what's being done to the other 2 among the power 3 of the WW meta.)

Quote from AkiraTerion >>

Dropping it to 4/4 without reducing the minions required drops this to Tier 3, if not worse.

As it is now, Quest Rogue finishes its work on 6 or 7.  so that's 7 or 8 to get value.  Anyone think it'll be easy to get a competitive level of value at that point?  I don't.  They will get out resourced and out traded against the very thing they're supposed to beat.

No thanks.   I'll take my 1600 dust.

Terrible Nerf. The issue with Quest Rogue is that it turns Hearthstone into a rock-paper-scissors game where the outcome of the match is determined based on what archetype you decided to queue with rather than the decisions you make in-game. Control Warlock ( Rock), Quest Rogue ( Paper), and Even Paladin ( Scissors.)

Control Warlock beats Even Paladin. Even Paladin beats Quest Rogue. Quest Rogue beats Control Warlock. 

Vicious Scalehide and Sonya are part of the problem. With minions at 4/4 with Crystal Core, Priest's DK does nothing-- not that it helped much before. With Sonya, now Scalehides trade better into Primordial Drakes making a frequently used taunt worse. Not sure if Blizzard thought much about this. Nerf should have increased needing to play 7 minions to counter greedy control "exodia" decks while lowering it's ability to stall against mid-range decks. Right now, Quest Rogue is an "exodia" deck that also beats "exodia" decks while contending against mid-range-- really silly. 

Nothing feels worse than a bunch of 1-mana cost Boars and Deckhands getting vanished/shadowstepped to blast away opponents to oblivion allotting  zero counter play. Overall, the nerf just allowed surviving an extra turn against the inevitable burst. 

With Call to Arms-- one of the biggest counters to Quest Rogue being nerfed, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Perhaps more aggressive mid-range decks revolving around Mage and Hunter could be introduced. I'd like to see Blizzard implement buffs to new Witchwood cards not only just nerfs. The most played decks may have 1-2 Witchwood cards if they have any at all, which is sad. Unfortunately, at this point, HS is showing to be pretty stale with the rock-paper-scissors format. I miss the days of decision making that you only get in 1 out of 20 games today.

Overall, if a card needs to be nerfed twice, it should probably be nerfed into oblivion on the second round. Will be funny when this card gets nerfed a 3rd time-- shows a lack of thought from Blizzard. Blizzard needs to understand when cards move out of standard and they replace those cards with minions that have "Rush" tags and spells that have "Damage a minion" that they're slowing down the pace of the game. Meaning Quest Rogue needs to be seriously looked at. As someone else mentioned, I'll be playing Quest Rogue as well until it actually receives it's deserved nerf. 

It's not "Kibler's" list, but close to it. There are only so many cards to play, so you'll see similar decks that revolve around legendary cards such as Barnes and Kathrena.  Usually, when I see a deck that has more than 3-5 different cards it's pretty much a different deck.

This deck has a lot of potential. I think it's missing a few pieces that aren't in game for it to be Tier 1. Hunter really needs heal in the form of a spell. Hunter's have Spirit Bond in WoW, so not sure why it's not in here yet-- specially with Blizzard making control focused cards. Also, Hunter needs 1 consistent board clear. Crushing Walls is the closest option available, but that should only be a 1-of at most.  That being said, I think some of these cards don't belong in this deck. Cloaked Huntress, Secretkeeper, and Spellbreaker. If these cards are in the deck, it doesn't really make sense to play Barnes-- Barnes cannot afford to low roll consistently in a deck that has no draw. Expanding on the no draw feature, this is what makes Cloaked Huntress and Secretkeeper really weak. Those cards are great in a vacuum; however, combo cards are not good with Hunter unless the combo cards are good by themselves. With no draw, Hunter can run out of cards quickly, which means each card should do it's best to standalone to guarantee value. Example: If you play Cloaked Huntress on Turn 3 and in a very good scenario, you play 2-secrets, what do you do Turn 4-6? Your hand is pretty much empty at that point unless you got a great starting hand.  Likewise with Secretkeeper; if this card isn't in your hand at the start it  becomes very bad. You don't want to top-deck this card in the middle stages of the game as that's a huge tempo loss, since we have no card draw. Secretkeeper could perhaps be a 1-of.

Overall, a fun deck to play; I'd say it's at the top of Tier 2 decks. However, playing against Cubelock or Highlander Priest, it's an uphill battle. Basically, if they draw the nuts and you draw the nuts, then you lose, which is not a healthy way to design a game. Blizzard will get it eventually, and make an insane board clear or heal mechanic for Hunter in a year and then Hunter will be a contender. Until then, it's fun to play and hope Tier 1 opponent's misses some key turns, so you can steal wins.

Hearthstone is a game with large variance. If you're a solid player, you'll have a win-rate of 55% to 60%. That's a bit low. Players who don't play optimally will be able to consistently beat players ( I consider 40% rather consistent) who are "out-playing them." One of the main issues is top-decking. I'd also say it's a fair assumption that your opponent top-decking you feels a lot worse than when you top-deck your opponent. 

Would be nice if Blizzard had a cooldown period for using a card you just top-decked. For example, if it was similar to Overload and there was a built in-mechanic that was, " If you play the card you just drew, destroy a mana crystal," or "If you play the card you just drew, Overload for 1 next turn." I think this would be a simple way to help reduce the already large variance Hearthstone has.

Most times I feel like I'm just playing Drawstone, which is why I quit the game mid-Karazahn. You end up making reads that your opponent doesn't have board clears and then they top-deck it without being punished. FeelsBadMan. Would be great if there was at least a "Hardcore" mode that implemented the above variation.    

Yogg, while theoretically good because there's so many spells, is bad for Resurrect Priest. We don't ramp up or cast spells as quickly as Druid. If Yogg is in our top-15 cards it clogs the hand way too much.

I used to play a similar version to this. I took out a 2nd Auchenai for a 2nd Embrace. I think this change should be done. Auchenai is REALLY bad with Priest of the Feast. Embrace does what it needs to and gets out of the way. Not sure if you ran into this issue because looks like you went on a heater with a 69% win-rate.

Definitely true! It's mostly used as cycle to dig for combos or answers in this deck. I did a rant on Purify on Purify's page, so I don't think it's currently a great card, but it's all Priest has got. This is a small part of the main reason the best Priest can do is create a Tier 2 / 3 deck. I like it slightly more than Loot Hoarder. Loot Hoarder is an awkward Resurrect target.  

Haha nice poor Injured Blademaster. 

Read the card text. "Draw a card." Where does it say "Cycle a card?" That's like seeing a shark and you say, " Cool, Shark!" Then a biologist looks at you and says, " That's not a shark; that's a hammerhead shark." You'd probably be like, "Okay..." Joking aside, this a really silly antic to even discuss. Would you like Arcane Intellect to read, "Cycle this card, then Draw a card?" I prefer the simple text. In regards to, " You could have just drawn the other card if you hadn't played Purify." Decks can't be 28 cards. Priest is a class that relies on clear combos and finding answers, so you can use this card to sometimes be beneficial to the board, but most times it's used to draw/cycle for your answers. It makes getting to your combos more consistent. If we could run x4 Resurrect, Purify wouldn't be in the slot.

Is Purify awesome? No. However, it does serve a purpose that is usually better than Novice Engineer. Purify combos with Barnes, Priest of the Feast, Ragnaros the Firelord, and Wild Pyromancer-- sometimes you just play a pyro for Tempo and its card text is an inconvenience or sometimes you'll have an Injured Blademaster on board with Wild Pyromancer and then you can Purify the Injured Blademaster to have pyro go off. Priest decks sometimes run x2 Loot Hoarder, and x1 Acolyte to help get their clear combos. Loot Hoarder is a below average card; similar to Purify. I think Purify barely beats it, but it does because of the rare combos you talked about. You shouldnt wait for the combo unless you have it in hand. It can be used on an Injured Blademaster to thin out your deck if you're floating mana on a turn and predict  you'll need an answer soon. I.e. if you don't have Entomb for Savannah Highmane and it's turn 5.

Let me know if you find a better alternative card for the slot.

Haha yeah, Purify gets a lot of hate. All the pros went on a rant about it. I think Zetalot almost killed himself IRL. The way it plays out Purify ends up being a worse Novice Engineer 50% of the time and awesome the other 50%, so it's not too bad. Silencing your Ragnaros for lethal is pretty fun too.

Let me know how it goes! 

It's hard to put healing in. Flash Heal is awkward, since we don't run Auchenai Soulpriest. Most decks that use Flash Heal will use it as removal or on Injured Blademaster, and the minority of the time as a self-heal. So, we'd only get small utility out of Flash Heal. We run Sunwalker's, which is like a pseudo-heal.

Maybe we can replace the x1 Holy Smite for X1 Flash Heal. Flash Heal has nice synergy with Priest of the Feast. When you heal your face, it heals for 8. 

Haha; thanks. I try to lighten the mood when we're all sad about Priest. Glad to hear it's doing well.

You can put Ysera in by taking out a Sunwalker. 

I wouldn't recommend it. It only has synergy with those 3 cards and has really bad Synergy with Injured Blademaster.