Climbed from rank 10 to 5 using this (with a few changes) today. Thanks for sharing!
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- samuellima91
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Member for 6 years, 2 months, and 3 days
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Apr 16, 20193
SLima posted a message on Bomberman Hunter [LEGEND]Posted in: Bomberman Hunter [LEGEND] -
Apr 11, 201916
SpitMyRage posted a message on Harrison JonesPosted in: Harrison JonesMy museum is full of Wrenchcalibur
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Apr 2, 20192
TheGameCrasher posted a message on New Warrior Card - Dimensional RipperPosted in: NewsSame, I'll be trying to build a deck just like that, plus it might actually help give The Boomship some legitimate use too.
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Apr 1, 201929
BrightHammer posted a message on New Paladin Card - Desperate MeasuresPosted in: NewsThis is an actual "secret" secret
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Mar 21, 201923
TrevoRaven8 posted a message on New card - Rafaam's SchemePosted in: Card Discussion/facepalm
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Feb 2, 2019111
CheeseEtc posted a message on Rotation 2019 : Who will lose whatPosted in: General DiscussionEDIT: I made this thread before we knew Genn & Baku would be rotated out.Go to page 3 for a small update of these conclusions.
In the "I have too much free time" category, I've checked every archetype on HSReplay too see which archetype will lose which cards. I included marginally played/tier 5 decks in my analysis since the rotation may make those decks viable. (Note that I started to write this post before the nerf were announced, I think most conclusions stand).
This is not an attempt at predicting what the future meta will look like though it can help. Obviously we don't know the next expansion yet so we can't make any predictions yet.
I divived the rotating cards of each archetype into 3 categories:
- Deck-defining - Highly specific card that defines the archetype and/or is critical to its viability.
- Important - Strong card that give the deck its power level. Its rotation won't kill the archetype but will significantly weaken it.
- Less important- Tech card that can easily be replace and/or is only used in certain versions of the archetype. Does not threaten a deck.
I've ranked archetypes in 4 categories depending on which cards they will lose. This categorization was made using subjective criteria, feel free to disagree with me on those.
- LEAST AFFECTED - The deck doesn't lose any core cards. It may lose other important cards, but these losses are manageable. If the deck is currently good, expect it to dominate the early meta of the next expansion.
- WEAKENED - The deck loses very impactful cards that won't kill it, but will significantly reduce its power level.
- ENDANGERED - The deck loses core cards on which it relies. It must absolutely obtain a replacement in the new set otherwise it will disappear.
- DOOMED - The deck relied on a very specific card or a very specific expansion theme that will rotate. It is extremely unlikely to survive the rotation.
NOTE: These status are independent of the current power level of a deck. A Tier 4 deck can be "least affected" and remain Tier 4 after the rotation.
Analysis per class
Bold denotes current meta decks, italics denotes marginal decks which I included in case they'd feed on the rotation like cockroaches.
Drood
Status: Uncertain
Worst losses:
The nerfs really gutted the class, but according to VS it remains playable despite them.
Mecha'thun Druid's win condition, Naturalize/Innervate, is still here even though its draw engine is heavily gutted. It can act as a check against decks that are too greedy (Odd Warrior says hi). It will need more low-cost spells to cycle through Auctionner though.
Blizzard will likely continue to push the Treant Druid archetype. It might become viable next expansion.
Huntard
Status: Uncertain
Worst losses:
- Deathstalker Rexxar
- Lesser Emerald Spellstone
- Crackling Razormaw
- Devilsaur Egg
- Candleshot
- Flanking Strike
Hunter is the best class in the game right now, but it will likely not be the case in the future.
Midrange Hunter, the most played deck in the game right now, is also one of the least affected, but it will have issues. The rotation of Crackling Razormaw will leave a big hole in MH's curve, it's a bigger deal than the loss of DK Rexxar. However, the biggest problem for MH is that all of its worst matchups (Baku decks) will survive the rotation! Despite this, MH is a well-rounded deck that is unlikely to go away.
Secret Hunter remains playable, but is already lagging behind since the Spelltone nerf. It also loses its best secrets. However, Subject 9 remains, so I wouldn't completely throw the archetype away.
Cube and Spell will die. F.
The loss of Deathstalker Rexxar will also be a big deal. The card single-handedly made "control" Hunter viable by being an infinite value generator. Without it, the class is more vulnerable to late-game decks.
Mage
Status: Safe
Worst losses:
Mage remained medicore throughout 2018, and the nerfs to Mana Wyrm and Jaina's cleavage didn't help, but recently became better thanks to Odd-Aggro Mage.
Fortunately, Odd-Aggro Mage will likely remain viable in 2019. The only major loss is Explosive Runes, a card that can be replaced with burst. The downside is that the class' matchups against Paladin and Warrior are terrible, and these two classes will keep their decks! Fortunately, OAM can still feed on Midrange Hunters.
On the other hand, slow mage decks Odd-Control Mage and Big Spells Mage will disappear without Frost Lich Jaina and the big spell shell to carry them.
Mage is safe, but may run into the same issue as Shaman: becoming an ok but repetitive one-trick pony.
Pally
Status: Safe
Worst losses:
Uther is rubbing is hands. Paladin keeps all of its viable decks. It will likely become a dominant force in the early April meta.
Even Paladin and Secret Paladin are both tier 1 decks whose shells are mostly untouched besides Sunkeeper Tarim. Prepare the lube.
Odd Paladin doesn't have it as good, but it will remain viable because it fills a niche. Many decks just can't deal with unending waves of little 1/1 shits. Ironically its biggest loss of may also be Sunkeeper Tarim from Stonehill Defender.
If you don't want to invest in the new expansion, play Paladin. Watch out for Odd Warriors though...
Prust
Status: Threatened
Worst losses:
Priest plays, take profit from the few weeks left before April because altar boy Anduin is going to get molested by the rotation. Priest's core set absolutely sucks and the class is therefore reliant on continuously getting good cards from expansions.
The only Priest decks that still have their core left are Wall Priest and Combo Priest. Yet wthout the resurrect package, the consistency-boosting Shadow Visions and effective AOEs, I doubt these two decks will go anywhere.
Is there hope for Priest?. At least Mass Hysteria will remain. Priest is the slowest class in the game so it absolutely needs a mid-game AOE to compensate for the first few turns spent on hero-power-emote. But Priest will need a win condition in the new set to stay viable.
Rouge
Status: Safe
Worst losses:
Valeera always finds a way.
Miracle Rogue is an evergreen archetype, even if its shell changes every rotation. The loss of Vilespine Slayer is going to hurt, but it won't kill it. Mosh'Ogg Announcer looks like a good replacement for it. Odd Rogue will take advantage of the Midrange Hunter matchup.
The best innovations may come from Tempo, Pirate, and Even Rogue (which I lumped together because they're very similar). Captain Hooktusk is a ticking timebomb waiting to break the meta and be nerfed (and yes, she's hot). The tempo gain is just too huge. Since most good Pirates are even-cost and Sharkfin Fan is a thing, the Even variant of Pirate Rogue might also be viable.
Pogo Rogue and Thief Rogue may also fill the niche of increasing value generation, akin to Jade Druid. However, Rogue's utter lack of control tools means these decks will only be viable against truly passive decks (understand: Odd Warrior).
Shaman
Status: Threatened
Worst losses:
Shaman is already on the brink of disappearing, and the rotation won't help.
According to VS, Even Shaman remains viable despite the nuke of Flametongue Totem. However, ES' biggest issue is not its lack of viability but its boringness. The deck hasn't changed since Witchwood aside from minor adjustments like Menacing Nimbus. If Shaman gets an even-cost win condition, interest for the archetype might raise again.
What else if left for Shaman?
I feel like Overload Aggro Shaman is on the brink of viability, only one good overload card could push it over the top as a huge tempo deck.
Even if other Shaman decks suck, the class still has Shudderwock which can easily become broken (again) if a broken combo involving battlecries is printed. Hagatha the Witch is also a big value generator. There's room for improvement.
Warlock
Status: Threatened
Worst losses:
Tough times ahead for Warlock.
Like Priest, all of Warlock's primary archetypes are being gutted. We know from the Un'goro days that, despite what people thought before, the warlock is not invincible.
Zoo Warlock is an evergreen archetype even if the current iteration of it, that involves healing, will disappear. As long as Flame Imp and Doomguard exists, the archetype will exist. However, the question is whether it can be viable. It has to compete with Odd and Even decks (and Midrange Hunter) for early board control, so zoolock must received sticky early-game minions to remain viable.
Although Even Warlock loses DK Gul'dan, the deck is primarily based around hitting the face with big minions like Mountain Giant and Twilight Drake. Even if it doesn't receive any support, the deck might find this niche to occupy.
Meanwhile, Discard Warlock will be remembered as a failed experiment. Despite Blizzard's obvious efforts to push the archetype, it never became viable. It looks like the discard mechanic, being inherently negative, can't have archetypes built around it. F.
Warrior
Status: Safe
Worst losses:
At last, 2 years after the nerf to Fiery War Axe, it looks like Warrior might become more than mediocre again.
Let's talk about Odd Warrior. According to VS, Odd Warrior is the most polarized deck in the game, with matchups that are either a breeze or completely unwinnable. It is similar to 2016-17 Jade Druid.
I've seen many saying that Odd Warrior will be OP as fuck after the expansion because of the rotation of infinite-value DKs and other cards, but it's unlikely to be the case for several reasons:
- Reckless Flurry will go away. This will make Odd Warrior much more vulnerable to midrange or even aggro decks. AOE for Warrior are rares, it's extremely unlikely that warrior will get a new (ODD-COST) one in the new expansion
- One single infinite-value card in the next expansion is enough to screw Odd Warrior
- Even if no infinite-value card is printed, Warrior can still lose to finite value decks, particularily decks that delay fatigue (Academic Espionage anyone?)
- Mecha'thun will still be a thing.
This doesn't mean that it will suck, Odd Warrior will remain a powerful deck in the meta and its extremely polarized matchups will continue to shape the meta even if OW itself won't be very powerful within it.
On the other hand, if OW receives an odd-costed infinite value generator and/or a win condition other than waiting for the opponent to die of old age, then it might indeed become over the top. However, the devs are probably aware of this and won't do it.
Could Warrior's redemption come from its Tempo side instead? Stats show that Rush Warrior is already a tier 2 deck capable of generating a good amount of pressure. However, one of the deck's issues is its price (9 legendaries!). People who want to play a midrange deck might prefer the traditionnaly cheap Midrange Hunter instead, which fills the same niche.
TL;DR conclusions
- ✔ Safe classes that will smoothly enter the new standard year:
- Paladin
- Mage
- Rogue
- Warrior
- ? Weakened classes that may lose their power level:
- Druid
- Hunter
- /!\ Threatened classes that ABSOLUTELY need broken cards in the next expansion to survive:
- Priest
- Shaman
- Warlock
- Deck with "Odd" or "Even" in their name will ruin your life. Most of you are eagerly waiting for the rotation, thinking that once the objectively broken cards from 2017 are out (DKs in particular) the game might become interesting again. You might be disappointed. This report show that, counter-intuitively, it is Genn & Baku that are making the current meta so polarized despite being balanced, rather than the arguably over-the-top cards released during the Year of the Mammoth (DKs in particular). This does not bode well for the future. Unless you're playing Paladin.
- Paladin will dominate the April meta. All of the class' decks will survive the rotation, which means that many f2p players will go for the low-hanging fruit of playing the decks they can still play (and I will be part of them). Whether this will last depends on the cards of the new expansion.
- The meta will become faster thanks (?) to the rotation of all the insane late-game value cards released in 2017 (i.e. Quests and DKs). The current meta seems to be the closest thing we have to the control meta everybody wanted before 2018. Make Face the Place again.
- Odd Warrior will polarize the meta (see Warrior section)
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Mar 5, 20192
TheDarkDeath posted a message on Enrage Tempo WarriorPosted in: Enrage Tempo WarriorDevastate on deck its to combine with Frothing Berserker / Gurubashi Berserker :) but you can use Execute without problems on deck :D
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Feb 19, 20194
ThePixelDash posted a message on MoorabiPosted in: MoorabiThey thought Shaman was too strong back then and printed a bunch of awful cards without any synergies, hiding it as a new archetype
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Feb 19, 20192
Dallaen posted a message on Dekkster's #12 Legend Wall Priest GuidePosted in: Dekkster's #12 Legend Wall Priest GuideDecks like this are what make the game totally unfun to play. More uninteractive decks to OTK you when you cannot do anything about it.
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Feb 2, 20194
LobsterEmperor posted a message on MoorabiPosted in: MoorabiBlizzard please, make Freeze Shaman a viable deck :(
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Altruis did it again. Playing Paladin, controlled him the whole game, played Nozari and went to full health while having Dragonqueen Alexstrasza on the board. Then he played this card. He was able to obliterate both Alex and Nozari and did more than 20 damage on that f****** one turn! I literally went from a winning position to dead in one turn because of this stupid card! How is this fair?! This is absolutely ridiculous!!!
I was just trying to play a Highlander Paladin to see how it was doing. It doesn't work. I went 1/9 around Diamond 5. Paladin has pretty good cards and is able to stabilize mostly through healing, but it's too fair. It just fights for the board, trades and goes face when possible. It has no big plays (only Alex and Murgurgle Prime), doesn't cheat a ton of mana in one turn (again only Alex and Murgurgle), doesn't have insane RNG highrolls (Alex and the occasional Explorer highroll), not enough board clears, no reliable finishers (RIP Leeroy) and lacks draw (though Angling Rod + Hoard Pillager provides some decent value). In most games i was able to heal consistently and last long enough to be able to play the big cards, but DH does way too much damage in a single turn, Rogues just have much better (and infinite) value and Mage is just a RNG carnival. It's sad because i think the deck has potential, but this meta is just too brutal.
Link to the deck here in case anyone is interested. I don't recommend it though.
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Highlander Priest is fine. That deck doesn't use any res cards. It's a little inconsistent, but it's a fun control deck. Priest also has other archetypes, but none of them work. Tempo Priest, Silence Priest, Deathrattle/Clone Priest. Silence and Tempo suffer from severe lack of card draw. Deathrattle/Clone is too greedy and this meta is very unforgiving toward greediness. All Combo Priests have died. It's a problem with the devs and with the player base as well. They keep supporting Res Priest because there's an audience for it. Even if the deck is despised, as long as there are people playing it (and buying packs for the cards), they will keep printing more of these cards.
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He also seems to really like the new (and terrible) Power Word: Shield. I'm playing a Highlander Quest Hunter and i wanted Brightwing to help with some dragon synergies (and early board presence vs aggro), but he only offers this garbage 0 mana card now.
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Too much RNG in mage. Just lost to one because of The Amazing Reno hero power casting Polymorph on the Deathwing i just played. There was also another time (this one was last week) where he got Mass Resurrection into Kargath Bladefist (he got it from Netherwind Portal earlier) and Kargath Prime and some other big minion that i don't remember because it didn't matter. It's a really bad feeling when you lose like this.
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There are synergies available for Al'ar in standard. It's one of the best targets for cloning in Quest Paladin. It's also very strong with Grave Rune and Psyche Split in Clone Priest. This card is only good in decks that can copy it multiple times. It doesn't work in Deathrattle decks because just triggering its deathrattle provides a very mediocre result. Hunter can't use it properly because of this. Rogue also can't use it (unless you play a meme shuffle rogue with Shadow of Death and Stowaway). Basically, it only works in decks that can generate multiple Al'ars in one turn. It's a real threat in those decks, but they are too greedy and slow and this meta doesn't forgive passiveness.
Al'ar is a niche card. It exists for very specific decks and does well in those (but sucks everywhere else). As long as there are synergies available, you can make a good use of it. It's fun as well. It's similar to Shu'ma. That card also looked awful but it found a spot in Quest Hunter and proved its viability as a niche card for token decks.
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Maybe he can see play as a last resort in some Control Warlock lists. After you have already used your healing cards, he is like using Alexstrasza on your face. A desperate measure that won't work all the time but could save your life occasionally. Also, there could be times where that 3 damage from the weapon is all you need to finish the game. I'll definitely try to use him. If it works then great! If it doesn't then he is just going to be in the same position as before. Whether he finds a place in the meta or not, he's definitely a bit better now. Playing him early is suicide though.
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Good card, but extremely boring. She just removes stuff and that's it. Absolutely no potential for synergies or other interesting applications. Prophet Velen was mostly used for unhealthy OTK combos, but he could be used for improved healing or better AoE. He had a decent amount of flexibility. This card is as flexible as a steel bar.
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Sathrovarr is an insanely greedy card. He requires some sort of mana cheat to be playable. Right now, in standard, he is only playable in highlander decks or Druid.
Druid can ramp really fast and get into a better position to play him early, but there's only two possible synergies: Lucentbark and Ysera, Unleashed. Lucentbark is a sticky minion and you can revive him with Crystal Power for 1 mana and then follow up with Sathrovarr. The dream portals from Ysera usually only pop during your turn (since it's unlikely that your opponent will force you to draw cards). That means you can copy any valuable dragons freely (as long as you are not under heavy pressure).
Outside of Druid, i only see him working in highlander decks (since you get 0-cost dragons from Alex) and Quest Warlock/Handlock (quest reward/The Dark Portal highroll). There's Bloodboil Brute and Sea Giant as mana cheat cards but those are incredibly hard to set up (and warrior prefers tempo plays now). So, in my opinion, he should be placed in tier 4 or tier 5. There's no good reason to play him in any deck, at the moment. He is just too slow and greedy.
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Just lost to a DH because of the face damage from Altruis. He played 6 cards and cleared my board while filling his board with a bunch of weak minions but that was enough to take me from a safe and winnable position to completely screwed. All because of Altruis destroying my face. He also attacked me with 6 damage because of Twin Slice. The nerf isn't going to stop this kind of nonsense.
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Amazing! The path is open for the resurgence of Control Warlock! Nice!