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    posted a message on Why Paladin is at rock bottom and How we got here

    The biggest problem probably for Paladin right now is the lack of early game tempo cards compared to other classes. Unless you are playing Murlocs, ~t5 feels awful. This is awful for a class that's based on minion-on-minion attrition combat (lack of a finisher card in the class necessitates this).

    Another problem is combo reliant removal and clears. I keep saying this to death, but Paladin has probably the shittiest removal out of all classes, Aldor deals well with minions that rely on stat based combat but fails completely in dealing with minions that rely on effects (e.g. Ysera). Not to mention, if your opponent already has the board, "nullifying" (I say this because it actually doesnt - the minion remains on the board and can ping off your hero power) one of your opponent's minions really doesn't do anything - which comes back to the "I need to keep the board, but I haven't been given tempo minions to do it with" problem. (To be clear what I mean by this is you still need to have minions on the board to kill whatever's been reduced to 1 attack)

    High health minions are a complete terror. Dealing with an Ysera or a Malygos when you are even on board is a fucking nightmare. In fact, there's no need to even go that far - empty board on both sides, your opponent slams down Tar Lurker, and the best response you have to that is...?

    Equality combos are a good way to clear the board, theoretically, once you have both cards - yet  if you have just one part of the piece, they are almost completely dead in your hand. I'm sure if you've played Paladin at all you've come across a situation where you're staring at an enemy board, with double Equality in your hand and no sign of that Consecration/Wild Pyromancer. (Or there's a Murloc Warleader on the board - pre-nerf)

    This is partly due to another problem - lack of reliable draw. Hunter shares this problem as well to be honest, as Paladin lacks good draw cards (in standard). To be fair Blizzard have tried to remedy this this expansion by giving us Potion of Heroism which I think is a great cycle card. But what else do we have? Divine Favour is one - although only if you're in an aggro vs control matchup, or at least in matchups where the opponent is slower than yours. Then we have Lay on Hands, which basically might as well read "pass your turn, draw 3 cards." Right now you can't really afford to pass your turn, usually speaking. Otherwise Temporus would be a good card, and the Mage Quest reward would be meh. Again, to be fair this has been partially remedied by Stonehill Defender etc.

    I think it's completely weird that they are giving us Healadin synergies when Light Rag and Forbidden Healing, Burnbristle etc are rotating out of standard soon. Hopefully they give us more support soon, otherwise it will be dead almost right off the bat - and anyway, I don't see it being really viable against the late game decks right now (Portal Mage doesn't care how much health you can heal, can OTK you from full either through Apprentice or Alex+Giants, Shadow Priest, Jade Druid etc)

    Dude Paladin, well, there aren't enough good efficient dude generators nor dude synergies in standard right now to make it work. Level Up is a complete joke - I've seen people compare this with Bloodlust and try to claim it's okay, but Bloodlust hits all minions and not just recruits, and recruits are fragile 1/1s who get killed off almost as soon as you summon them. In Wild that's a different story as you have Justicar and Muster, but seeing as we're talking about Standard that's irrelevant.

    Quest Paladin is a fucking joke. 'nuff said on that one.

     

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Pepper Thread - Share your good vibes!

    Today had a game vs Taunt Warrior with Midrange Paladin, I misplayed midway through when I had lethal, but the game went on until we both drew to fatigue, something I hadn't experienced for a while.

    Elise Trailblazer got Getaway Kodo'd, which was I think the most crucial part of the matchup for me, as I had way too much stuff that he just couldn't deal with. The first pack was rather low on value but I still ended up getting a Glacial Shard which was pretty clutch and I also got Execute off of a Mana Bind. At the end I was pretty low on health but Vinecleaver helped me out by spawning massive amounts of tokens and his Ragnaros Hero Powers kept hitting 1/1 Recruits.

    Haven't had a game go to fatigue in a while, so it was pretty fun!

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on General impressions of Journey to Un'goro so far

    It's a lot more fun because classes have different archetypes and you don't know what deck they're playing from just looking at their class.

    Tar Creeper single-handedly keeps a good lid on traditional aggro decks (read: Pirate Warrior).

    Bit concerned about the Quest decks that have relatively easy conditions like Rogue, Warrior, and Mage. I've teched in double Dirty Rat because of Rogue and Mage, there's not much else you can do except go as aggressive as I can and hope they don't have the answer and hope Rat pulls something good. With Warrior since he doesn't gain armour as well as he did before, he now relies on Taunt to stall the game out until he gets his new hero power and then just presses that every turn, and the deck fits together a little too well at the moment.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, no more of decks fitting into Aggro/Anti-aggro/Jade trifecta anymore is so good now too. Combo decks, Control decks, Aggro decks, Midrange decks etc.

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Group therapy! Need to blow off steam? Mega salty? Here is the place!

    Playing against Jade Druid, kept the pressure up the entire game and had 5~6 mid-sized minions of 4~7 health on board, got him down to 14 health and his Jade counter was at 3~4, he had maybe two minions on board.

    Then he Yoggs. Yogg proceeds to Consecrate and then Flamestrike my board, plays Call in the Finishers, plays Shield Block.

    Wow such skill. The only bad outcome was that he Shadow Word Pain'd one of his murlocs.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Group therapy! Need to blow off steam? Mega salty? Here is the place!

    Fuck rogue. Seriously. Thing is out of control, routinely finishing quest by turns 4~6 is not cool. This is exactly what Jade and Pirate Warrior did last expansion, we're just seeing a repeat of it now, where I'm pretty much forced to play aggro decks to burst out Rogue before t4~6 enough that he can't win (not as easy as you think btw, since they still have Backstab/Evis/Fan and switch to controlling the board when they realize it's aggro just like other aggro vs aggro decks do instead of greeding for the quest).

    Who the fuck at Blizzard tested this shit? Honestly. Honestly most broken shit I've seen so far. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop that shit with any deck that's even slightly slower than it. 4 minions is way too fast, should be 6, either that or they need to nerf the minions into 3/3s or something.

    I tried running Handlock, for the same reason Trump tried running it, because the Rogue deck lacks removal outside of Eviscerate, so I thought I'd be able to cheat out fatties early and beat them. It was reasonably successful if I got the Giants out early, but in every other situation I'd just die. Do I fucking have to give in to the cancer and play Pirate Warrior, goddammit Blizzard. It's not like that is even safe, because all the other classes have started running Golakka Crawler in their deck to counter it for exactly that reason.

    Also going to complain about the state of Paladin here. Yes, there is a viable deck in Elemental Handbuff Paladin - for now. It's only thanks to the Tempo swings that Elementals bring right now/the regularity with which you discover Rag Lightlord that they are viable, notably lacks removal of any sort (the most popular decklist by Savjz lacks both Equality (because handbuff anti-synergy etc etc I presume, and couldn't fit in Aldor because of the Elemental curve), instead slamming down big fatties hoping they will stick, and since the Paladin deck as of itself lacks tempo/card draw I'm sure as soon as the meta settles down the deck will fall back down to tier 3, but it's at least something, at least for a while, although I'm not sure how long before I can't play Paladin anymore.

     

     

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Group therapy! Need to blow off steam? Mega salty? Here is the place!

    Well, I've started trying out the Hunter Quest. Legit most brainless deck I've ever played.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on New Card - The Voraxx

    Raw stats on this are so bad, it literally always has to be combo'd with a good buff, otherwise it's really bad. I would rather play Djinni and next turn play buffs on a token if I was just looking for stats, if I were looking for draws it might be different.

    https://twitter.com/LegendaryFerret/status/848629184297541632

    EDIT: confirmed it doesn't count as two spells for the quest. No cheating, it seems.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Why are people bashing the new Paladin cards?
    Quote from PROJECT_curse >>
    I doubt handbuff counts. It's not a spell being cast on the minions, or at least that doesn't seem to be how Blizzard treats the interaction/
    Quote from siritanusik>>

    I did hate galvadon quest,however after all cards have been revealed you can literally play quest,voraxx and 3 1-mana buffer(2x adapt,1x blessing of wisdom for example) and you are done.This may be viable in a control paladin where galvadon will be your late game option rather than your only win condition in a deck full of garbage spells.However paladin did not get any card draw,any single removal,any aoe and this class desperately needs those.I am going to try to make this class work,but i am not that sure about the results.

    What are you talking about?  Paladin may be weak on single removal, but it has plenty of aoe and card draw too. We lose Solemn Vigil, and Anyfin Can Happen. That's about the worst thing we lose. Paladin doesn't actually have a lot of other stuff from BrM, LoE, or TGT. Plus we still have the classic Eq + Consecrate combo, along with the new Wild Pyro + Adapt interaction. There are also still cards like Divine Favor, Ragnaros, Lightlord, and Forbidden Healing. Paladin is actually in a state where a control deck could be very strong with Galvadon in it. It might actually end up playing like the older Midrange deck pre WoTG. 
    Edit: Forgot the name of Divine Favor
     Plenty of "good" AoE and card draw then. Eq + Consec or Pyro + Eq combos (and by extension Pyro +Adapt, which is even worse because it' not guaranteed) are bad because they require two cards to proc a board clear. Draw cards are also poor, Solemn Vigil was probably the best draw card Paladin ever got. Divine Favor is wildly unreliable and is bad when you are facing someone that is faster than you are (as you probably will when playing a control deck). Lay on Hands is really heavy and if you are not ahead on board already then you basically give up a whole turn to draw 3, which is really poor.
    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Pepper Thread - Share your good vibes!

    So yesterday I played a Shaman Arena game and played War Golem t7, which my opponent whittled down to 3 health but couldn't clear. I traded the War Golem with his Corrupted Seer, Master of Evolution'd, got Al-Akir, traded with two minions, Master of Evolution'd again, got Ysera.

    He conceded.

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Pally in Un'Goro

    Well OP, I agree with your assessment on most of the cards released, except I'm a bit more pessimistic on some of the cards.

    On Vinecleaver for example I think this is way too heavy while doing too little to see play, even in a control deck, unless you're going full in on the Recruit synergy. The attack value of the weapon is simply too low imo for this to be efficient as a removal card which is the primary function of a weapon (forget that Warriors have turned to using it just for SMOrcing purposes).

    Lost in the Jungle seems to be rated as a really good card by you, I think this thing is okay and will be a one-of or not included in most decks kind of good. If you aren't playing a handbuff archetype basically this card is Alley Cat for Paladins right? But Alley Cat doesn't see that much constructed play, and it's a Beast, and Beast synergies are much more plentiful and powerful in Hunter than Recruit synergy is in Paladin and it doesn't see play. That fact makes me a lot more pessimistic towards the card.

    Adaptation I don't think is impactful enough as a buff to include in the deck. Sure it's flexible but it's also random, so the flexibility may not go in a direction you want. The Last Kaleidosaur I am also a lot more pessimistic about because taking out minions for buffs to make the quest more reliable also makes the deck less reliable into drawing into those early plays and I shudder about the times you will have 4~5 buffs in your hand and an empty board, as well as the bad buffs in Paladin right now.

    I also don't see why some seem to rate Dinosize as a card, I was arguing on the topic on reddit and I didn't really see an occasion you'd play this in your deck (not discovered from Ivory Knight) as opposed to running Tirion or Rag, but I had people telling me about the amazing "10/10 pesudo-charge" (If that happened on a regular enough basis, Rafaam would have seen play, as he actually adds +10/+10 in stats from Lantern of Power) and of seeing it alternatively as an "aggro deck finisher" (why would you run an 8 mana card in an aggro deck) or a "Jade counter" (I don't see how this even works).

    Hydrologist I agree is a good 2 drop, but I see it as worse than the Rogue 2/2 or Dark Peddler which is rotating out because the cards you are discovering are Paladin secrets which are very specific to the situation in which you want to play them where as Dark Peddler's 1 drops are a lot more useful in a variety of situations. Also Rogue and Warlock as a class are a lot different from Paladin, Warlock has some insane 1 drops like Flame Imp and Voidwalker to take the board early, so they can get away with playing a card that lacks a little in stats, and Rogue has a lot of early game removal as well to clear the board. It would be a really good minion if Paladins had some decent early game options, but we don't.

    N'Zoth Pally is most likely dead or at least a lot weaker now without Sylvanas in the deck, and I don't see a good deck that Paladin can play outside of some kind of Divine Favor shenanigans with the quest, and that's a lot weaker than even the current version of standard Secret Paladin because of a lack of a swing turn in tempo and because Mysterious Challenger takes all the secrets out the deck for reliable draws, whiles with this buffadin archetype there is nothing comparable to it so if you make the quest more consistent then you're going to end up with dead draws regularly and get beaten down by anyone who puts down minions on the board.

     I also think the importance of losing Keeper of Uldaman cannot be understated, she was a big reason why we were coping with the lack of removal in the class imo, because she dealt with high health targets very efficiently, without which you were reduced to breaking out your Equality every time (read: Ysera. And then you gut your AoE potential.). Additionally she was never a dead card in any matchup, even against aggro decks, whereas Sunkeeper Tarim is a dead card vs aggro because you can't control the battlecry - it applies to everything - and is a legendary so you'll have it less reliably against the control decks you're going to want to play this in.

    Overall I don't know how, but Paladin seems to have gotten even worse imo in the new expansion and I am not looking forward to playing it at all, it's just frustrating when the range of choices you can make is so inherently limited by design the moment you lose the board.

    Posted in: Paladin
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