Hearthpwn

Quote from Geoff >>

Quote from pox >>

Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse. 

 Dragons are still weaker than Pirates then. Dragons and Pirates have a shared win con, which is having more stats on the board than the opponent. Pirates win at this. And probably even Demons do atm.

 No, pirates can't scale stats without very specific cards and tavern rolls and even then get no shields, meaning poison counter them and any build with shields scales effectively twice as fast. 

They are the worst tribe currently. They require the highest amount of luck to make top 4 with.

The best pirate is GoldGrubber, which doesn't require other pirates to work and which all other people will take from you anyway.

Second best pirate; The canon. lol.

Dragons are a decent tribe. They just need to nerf murlocs so that dragons aren't strictly worse. 

Canon by far especially because it's on tavern 2.

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

Let's keep in mind that this is the guy who thinks:
-Murlocs win every lobby, but they are not viable at all. But also Megasaur is a problem.
-Illidan is a top tier hero.
- Only now has randomness been a thing in BG.

Any BG thread is basically his own personal salt thread.

 

 Murlocs is not a viable force / strategy, no. Megasaur is a problem card for overall game/tribe balance. 
Ilidan was good before they nerfed macaw and saurolisk. Now he's useless again. People also figured that pirates suck, so you counter them less.
Never said game was never random. Just now it's more random than ever. Faster games, better players, canon and no low-tier builds make it so.

All forums are salt forums, except the reddit, which is the "blow the devs" forum : D

Quote from OverholtNA >>

There's no time where you can go "Oh, I'm behind, I better do X". It's basically always wrong. Just never deviate from the plan and hope the RNG saves you.

Insofar as 1st place goes, sure. But I don't think that's true in terms of top 4. If you get off to a bad start and try to stay "on curve" with tavern upgrades and look for the perfect, late game scaling minions, you're probably gonna be first out. There is an art to knowing when to fold 'em and assembling a low ceiling comp that can at least help you outlast four other players.

There is no "low ceiling comps' anymore that have a shot at top 4 except maybe mechs, but nowhere near as consistently as when Cobalt was in the game. Then you could force mechs on 3 and get consistant top4.

Now you no longer can do this. The game is just pure random. Canon is also a complete and total design failure, along with like 10 other disasters they don't remove from the game. God damn they suck lol.

Macaw is fine now.

Canon needs to go.

The dev team only balances towards aggro, in all game modes.

But they did an especially bad job with Pirates, canon and macaw which are "who goes first wins" designs.  Pirates would have been way more fun as a tavern-centric tribe ( like with hogger ) than a stupid coin flip tribe.

There's also no comeback mechanism in the game. If you start behind, too bad. You can't come back into the game. Nothing you pick or do will outscale others being ahead. You just have to hope the combat RNG and Bob favors you. There's no time where you can go "Oh, I'm behind, I better do X". It's basically always wrong. Just never deviate from the plan and hope the RNG saves you.

This is why a damage cap is a non-negociable feature to fix this game mode. To me it's a complete no-brainer. Who ever complains that games go too long? Who ever complains that they were taken out too late? Who likes it when Boat spawns +14 damage? Or when you get exact lethal from tokens?

Literally none of these events add anything to the game but frustration for players. That's basically the hallmark of bad design: It adds nothing to your game, just takes away from it.

Quote from sPacEtiMe19 >>

Quote from pox >>

Yes the game is back to just lucking out on tavern rolls and staying low tiers in general to be safe. Builds can no longer be assembled without massive luck. The game is also way too fast. No more saurolisk, plus the canon card make games insanely fast and randomly one-sided.

A damage cap will always go a long way to preventing bad meta shifts but blizzard... they... they aren't too quick on the draw. At least they fix BG faster than they fixed arena.

 but as far as the reroll RNG thing don’t even pretend like that’s something new lol

 It's worse than ever as they progressively have removed every card that let you make a build until later on. In the first iteration, cobalt let you make builds on 3 for a while. Saurolisk let you make builds on 1. Canon and Macaw let you stay on 2 longer.

Now it's really just "take whatever you can and hope you can triple on tavern 5".

The high damage / low HP is what causes this. So that is not something new true, but it's worse than even at this point, though people are moving away from pirates from what I can see and into murlocs. I'm now seeing 4+ players at 9k mmr going for murlocs. Megasaur makes it so you just beat every build with murlocs, so people risk it.

Again here megasaur needs to go for this reason. It for free makes murlocs the best build even if without the shields you could scale their stats to win a lobby anyway. With megasaur you just blow everyone out stupidly, if Bob lets you win. lol

Yes the game is back to just lucking out on tavern rolls and staying low tiers in general to be safe. Builds can no longer be assembled without massive luck. The game is also way too fast. No more saurolisk, plus the canon card make games insanely fast and randomly one-sided.

A damage cap will always go a long way to preventing bad meta shifts but blizzard... they... they aren't too quick on the draw. At least they fix BG faster than they fixed arena.

The reroll hero is total garbage. Saurolisk is the only strategy you can do with this hero and this requires you get early saurolisks by total random chance. If you don't get fed the build early on, you're out. Your hero power does nothing whatsoever for any build other than tavern 1 saurolisk build, which they're going to nerf anyway, making this hero completely unplayable.

having tried many times, murlocs is truly not viable at all.
The game is too fast.
Yes as usual some people will high roll it but you have almost zero chance to make it work.

If murlocs aren't banned, someone usually wins the lobby going murlocs. However you still have like 1 in 3 chance to win vs 2 in 3 to go 6th or 8th.
But some lucky person tends to make it with murlocs now, though if you play pirates you can sometimes just push them out of the game fast enough with a 20+ damage hit.

The taunt doesn't work against Ilidan because he gets 2 attacks before you get yours. So your taunt dies and then a random thing dies, and it's never good what thing of yours will die if you play beasts.

If you play Pirates with Ilidan you destroy beast because then you can get 4 attacks with the windfury guys. Then beast guy has no board basically. 20-30 damage, bam.

He's not just "playable" he's top tier in my opinion. From now on I will always pick him except over Hooktusk or maybe Patches, because Patches is fun to play.

I think a strategy people are also overlooking is to stay on tavern 2. Before there was nothing on 2 and 3 just had stronger minions. Now there's not really much on 3 that you want except the pirate that grows when you play more.

On 2 you get Macaw, the best minion in the game, and canon, the best early game card in the game. Not only that but you get bomb and spawn of n'zoth on 2, which are very strong with ilidan and macaw. Added bonus that staying on 2 a turn longer means you don't take 6-7+ damage and you aren't even going to be weaker next turn because 3s all suck at this point anyway. Even 4s tend to not be game-defining. Better to protect your HP ( hence why saurolisk is top build ).