Just went against a fully committed mill druid. They played a solitaire with one and only objective to burn their opponent's deck. Absolute cancer considering that this can be cast multiple times using Moonlit Guidance and Solar Eclipse.
By the logic that Astalor is perfectly fine because power creep, what would be the FINAL form of such cards after decades of said power creep? Would "0 mana : destroy your opponent" be okay? If not, where do you draw the line?
The OP only mentioned those two cards, because the other ones are not as problematic - they are not auto-includes.
I don't mind a faced paced meta assuming it still has a place for aggro, tempo and control. An aggro deck can lose or win quickly against control (or at least that's how it used to be). Once aggro knew control had turned the corner, the game was done and they usually conceded.
What we have now is something else. A game where pretty much everything (except aggro) is "death from hand" and having minions on the board is almost a liability as it enables healing for the oponent. The exceptions are stupidly high-roll decks such as evolve shammie and rogue, which rely on some mega minion(s) on turn 2 or 3 that the oponent can't deal with.
I really hope (but have zero reason to believe) that the Dev's take a step back and look at what they've created. There's nothing fun or clever about the mechanics of hearthstone these days. It's all about mana cheat, discover, and OTK with a sprinkling of aggro in there for good measure. Out of all of those aggro is probably the most honest deck style and even it has some absurdly powerful plays now (looking at you imp-lock).
The game shouldn't be solitaire for two. Decisions, resources and mana should matter. They currently dont.
100% agreed.
Also the game now has way too many unplayable cards due to power creep and broken combos that can suddenly end the game(little diversity even in wild with how many expansions?).
More and more games that leave bad taste regardless of win/loss.
Hearthstone will be left only with those who enjoy netdecking and abusing whatever is most broken.
Who doesn't know that you can use an equally or more busted deck to beat another busted deck?
'No deck has 100% win rate' does not equate to 'nothing is broken or OP'.
As was pointed out in a different thread, "busted" or "OP" only has meaning in relation to other decks. So if there are multiple "busted" decks, there are, in fact, none.
By that logic, balance changes shouldn't be necessary, because no card is busted or OP if there are multiple busted cards.
If people are honestly having problems with Ramp Druid at the moment, I would suggest trying out Beast Hunter (with Quel'Thelas). I had been experimenting with it since release and it is definitely a great counter for Druid. Without exaggeration, I have faced Ramp Druid many times so far over the last few days and have never lost a match with them, because they simply have no real way of dealing with going wide since they lost access to Spreading Plague, which is a godsend for aggro decks facing druids.
The deck is by no means infallible of course, and has it's own counters. Bu for strategy against Ramp druid, you want to go wide where possible as they have little option for dealing with that sort of threat, lacking much AoE options. And if you can get your minions to 3+ health, you should be fine against boards of Whelps, etc.
I don't think you understand. You can always find counter to one deck. You can always go implock against druid and probably have better results than with hunter. It's not a problem to find counter to Druid.
What is important is that you have absolutely no chance with anything that is not aggro. Druid and Rogue are toxic for meta because they make most builds and classes totally unplayable. You just have to play one or another to have any success and both have many more builds available than any other class can ever dream of.
Oh, I understand quite perfectly. People complain that something is “broken” or “OP” because their homebrew deck cant beat it, so therefore the problem must lie with the deck they cant beat. However, when they complain about it, they are given a list of options on how they can beat the deck, but because none of them are “nerf it”, so they choose to ignore the advice and so we go round and round. i have already iterated a number of both aggro and and non-aggro options available to players who wish to beat druid rather than complain about it. There are even some very powerful DK control deck options coming out right now. Mage wipes the floor with it, too.
Who doesn't know that you can use an equally or more busted deck to beat another busted deck?
'No deck has 100% win rate' does not equate to 'nothing is broken or OP'.
“Solve the Druid problem and the latter will follow.” No, it won’t. It won’t. I wish it would but it won’t.
You need to understand, people play Hearthstone to win, period. Most people anyway. They’re on a constant prowl on whatever broken synergy has been overlooked or allowed by the dev. When the nerf ultimately come, they then migrate to whatever is in the second place for the most broken. A lot can be blamed on the dev (and we should) but the players are as much to blame. I don’t play Rogue so I can dish out a 15/15 stealth minion in turn 5 because it’s not fair to me. Don’t think it’ll stop anyone else, however. I think there’s some psychological issue underneath, that reaching legend somehow demonstrates a person is among the alphas of the earth and too much is at risk not to stick for whatever has the highest winrate. Fun isn’t even part of the equation. I mean, technically, what’s fun about going full aggro Implock?
Best hearthstone players don’t lobby for a more balanced game, they’re aware the dev are slower than a turtle taking a shit to react to patch anything and are the opposite of proactive. The best Hearthstone players don’t complain and simply focus on taking advantage of whichever is the most busted.
THIS and my signature.
I mean their definition of fun is clearly different which is just winning and doing basically anything to achieve it, so they play like a calculator.
You can obviously play however you want, but can't deny that this contributes the most to making the game repetitive and predictable, thus boring.
Totally would have been fine if Toxfin didn't exist. Now Murlocs are not only good at swarming the board, but also clearing it. Maybe that's a bit too much, maybe...
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When did you last have one and how did it happen?
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Turn 12. 2 10/10 Taunts go face. What a game.
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Just went against a fully committed mill druid. They played a solitaire with one and only objective to burn their opponent's deck. Absolute cancer considering that this can be cast multiple times using Moonlit Guidance and Solar Eclipse.
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How do you know?
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I've found out that if Renathal gets eaten by Scythe, Renathal's health buffing effect does not trigger. I believe this wasn't intended?
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By the logic that Astalor is perfectly fine because power creep, what would be the FINAL form of such cards after decades of said power creep? Would "0 mana : destroy your opponent" be okay? If not, where do you draw the line?
The OP only mentioned those two cards, because the other ones are not as problematic - they are not auto-includes.
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Thing is.. the definition of "fun" is different for everyone, and it doesn't have to involve skill which I guess you can call "stupid fun".
After all, it's a card game that is inherently luck dependent, no matter how competitive serious players want to make it out to be.
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100% agreed.
Also the game now has way too many unplayable cards due to power creep and broken combos that can suddenly end the game(little diversity even in wild with how many expansions?).
More and more games that leave bad taste regardless of win/loss.
Hearthstone will be left only with those who enjoy netdecking and abusing whatever is most broken.
Twas fun while it lasted.
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By that logic, balance changes shouldn't be necessary, because no card is busted or OP if there are multiple busted cards.
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They want the card to be a "finisher", so the ability to hit face goes unchanged. Why? Seems like an issue with design philosophy.
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That actually looks cooler.
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Who doesn't know that you can use an equally or more busted deck to beat another busted deck?
'No deck has 100% win rate' does not equate to 'nothing is broken or OP'.
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THIS and my signature.
I mean their definition of fun is clearly different which is just winning and doing basically anything to achieve it, so they play like a calculator.
You can obviously play however you want, but can't deny that this contributes the most to making the game repetitive and predictable, thus boring.
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Totally would have been fine if Toxfin didn't exist. Now Murlocs are not only good at swarming the board, but also clearing it. Maybe that's a bit too much, maybe...
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Can't be more toxic than that.