It would be nice to be able to access a book that says "if X happens Y will occur", believe me I wish we had something like that. What I was referring to was an interface that could start and stop actions during events like MTGO, which would ruin the game.Plus they want the game moving fast and able to not have to deal with pauses and starts so that style of UI is not possible with hearthstone. I get the "need" but in reality it is a ton of trial and error which is part of the game. It sucks losing a game because you thought something would occur in a specific order and was wrong, I have had it happen a few times. But I learned from it and it reduced future mistakes I normally would of made. The game is streamlined and works very well. This is also the "first" real season, they will make changes and listen to the player base. Give them time to work on it. They have like 20 people working on the game and we all want different things like replays and new content. They cant give it all at once.
Looking at the deck, it looks and feels like a perfect storm. by that I mean, if you do not draw perfect and your opponent draws bad, you lose. The way modern aggro is this has a very hard time standing up to it (zoo and hunter). By standing on the, "20 points of burst" box, you put yourself in a corner that is hard to get out of. Listen to what all these people are saying, it is positive input in reality. If you did not want the criticism on how it is bad and how it needs to change, why would you post the deck.
When you are looking at a deck idea, you have to look at how it fairs to zoo and hunter right now. Clearly this deck just looses to zoo by simply getting multiple taunts on the board, and to hunter by trying to race it, both of which the decks do very well. You need more card draw, mana totems would be a great addition, which would probably push this deck to more of a mid range deck. Just consider the things mentioned instead of just turning the ideas away quickly.
Here is a thought, and maybe I am looking at it the wrong way. In the case of damage and healing, all effects are applied at the same time, in this case, turning baron 2 dmg AOE into a 1 dmg AOE, not reducing all health to zero and then raising to 1. The animation shows it that way because all cards have to have the full effect recognized by the player, and is a state based effect. In the case of death rattles, if two creatures die at the same time, death rattle occurs the instant the creature dies, checks the state of the board and resolves. With windrunner, she dies, sees nothing on the table (State based effect) and resolves. With cairne, he dies, waits for state based effects to trigger and resolve then resolves himself. here is an easy way to look at it in script - windrunner attacks cairne - Lethal damage is dealt to both creatures - Death Rattles trigger (Cairne and Windrunner) - State based effects trigger (Windrunner checks status of board sees no creatures, Cairne dies single to summon Baine) - State based effects resolve (Windrunner has no target board is empty, Cairne is dead Baine is being summoned) - Death Rattles resolve (Windrunners Death Rattles "fizzles", Baine enters board) - New state based in effect (Baine on board all future events occur from this point forth)
This is why windrunner does not take a baine bloodhoof. This is the best way I see the order of events in the game. The more complex the card the more layers in essence the events have for others to trigger. This can take a ton of time to think through and even more when you have multiple triggers and state based effects occuring. We cant have a stack like MTG, we can pause it and move through it at our own speed, with hearthstone we cannot it all happens no matter what unless we want a crappy clunky UI, and if you want that, play MTGO.
This is something that completely blows my mind. Why would people take the time to simply shut down a game or site that people use? I get they think its funny or something to accomplish, but really what does it do for them? Bragging rights? Self fulfillment? Sexual arousal? Come on, it seems like a huge waste of time to simply just annoy other people. Maybe some one can open my mind to this type of behavior, I simply do not get why people do these things.
Brewmaster is a tempo loss unless you play it late, but still bad. what would you rather play, a brew master bouncing peacekeeper to recast, or cast Tirion? By the late game you want to be dropping cards that are game winners, not tempo cards. Everything the control pally does is only getting to the end game. Pally has an ultra powerful endgame and longevity, bouncing cards is counter productive the vast majority of the time. I have never went, man, if I could just recast my defender, that would win me the game. Brewmaster is better in an agro style of deck so you can bounce little things and recast same turn to add power and reapply buffs.
Faceless is a great card to dust for. That is one of the few epics I would consider doing it for. Its like crafting a copy of any legendary that is played. I have two, crafted 1 and opened another, very good investment for dust.
my opinion because I have crafted both and have thought this through a crazy amount. If you plan on playing control in any other deck, Rag is a great investment, if not rag is not that special If you plan on playing Paladin at all, Tirion is amazing. You can play him in midrange or control decks, but only in Paladin. Personally I like Tirion over Rag in the Paladin deck, he is harder to kill, gets tons of value when he dies, and still adds value after he dies. Rag is the RNG god and wins because of it. Simple as this, if you are going to play Paladin, Tirion is a better choice, if you plan on not playing Paladin for long, Rag is a better choice. Only DE you golden Mally for a legendary, epics are easier to craft and open unlike legendaries.
I crafted him because i randomly started playing paladin and he is extremely powerful. Probably one of the most powerful cards in the game, especially since tinkmaster is gone. I would DE one of them, keep the other. I have only DE'ed a couple legendaries, two peggles since the nerf, and a hogger when i first started. Other than that hold on to them because they are so much to craft. Plus, look at this way, unless you have enough dust to make another legendary instantly, your trading for 1 epic or 4 rares (1 golden) or 10 commons (4 golden). Does that sound like a positive trade to you? keep one DE the other
Always nice to get some input, things can always be improved on. Noble Sac does a few things though. It is a removal against agro, messes with math with it comes to removal of creatures like Rag and gives you a early temp swing against Zoo. on turn three against agro it allows you to Pyromancer, Noble to kill all 1hp minions, then will kill anything that swings the next turn for the most part. its underplayed in control and is very powerful. Most people are not thinking about it for some reason and really does some good things when ever it is triggered. I have tried both of the cards you mentioned. I liked kings, but it felt like a win more card really unless it was on a token, and at that point i would rather run a Leroy Jenkins for burst or removal. I might try sword again once I start playing more control decks. Going over the top seems important at that point and the extra power and toughness will matter more than likely. Thank you for your suggestions.
I added a Doomsayer to essentially time walk agro decks in the early game where they can build a huge huge lead if im not already holding a board wipe. Have not tried it out. I added a Big Game Hunter for big creatures that can be hard to deal with along with a Sylvanas Windrunner which had huge punches to the power of the deck.
Here is the write up as well for it that I posted with the deck
Design:
It is a pretty typical control deck, but here are the things it really is tuned for. With the current meta (currently at rank 12) I am seeing about;
85% agro, mostly zoo, some warrior 5% midrange, usually mage 10% control mostly warrior or handlock5% random stuff like hunters with weird builds
With the meta being so aggro heavy it was easy to skew it in a manner that really increased the likelihood of winning. Pyromancer early usually just wins the games outright with things like equality and consecrate I probably have a win % in the 70-75% against zoo, 65% against warrior, and 80% against hunters simply because its easy to keep them from comboing off. Overall you are highly likely to win against agro.
The deck can match handlock punch for punch if not go over the top of their giants just buy holding board wipes for giants. Once they cast Lord Jarraxus, you are more than likely to a point where you should win because they are hurting and your board is very much in a good standpoint. Against other controls you simply are looking to match 1-1 trades, get a positive 2-1 if possible and save your equalities for high value. It becomes a very slow game but with your heals and wipes you can usually outlast their finishers.
Against mid-range I have found that you want to be the aggresor, your creatures are typically to powerful and your boards wipes give you lots of playroom. If you stick a Terrion you win, its almost impossible to lose at this point unless you already are.
The deck as a really interesting curve to it, climbing up to 4 very well, falls to 1 card at 5 being a faceless, then the same style of curve back to the top end. The great thing about this is in the mid game you want to be able to cast multiple cards during turns 5-7. This is where you win or lose the game most of the time. If you can enter turn 8 with board control, you are likely winning the game. Focus on those turns the most, draw out removal with cards like sunwalker and cairne so your giant or terrion can win the game.
Yeti is a solid late game card. Not many creatures can deal well with him and his large body can soak some damage, do not underestimate him.
The scariest matchup is the Control Warrior running armorsmith. You have to be the aggressor in this matchup or you fall behind fast and its so hard to catchup with their board wipes and shield slams, Armorsmith must die ASAP, the next target is frothing berserker. those two creatures will win the game on their own and can trade for every card in your deck. Draw out shield slams ASAP and get Rag to stick and you are in the winners circle.
Overall for this meta and what I have come up against most matches are winnable if you take your time and make good decisions. You will be in some bad spots but your heals and wipes will catch you up. Do not waste the heal if it isnt needed, your probably ahead and no use wasting resources if something bad happens.
The deck can adapt very well to any match-up, I honestly believe it is an underplayed deck in favor of the decks you see streamers play. It is fairly boring to play because you have to think and games usually last about 20 minutes. It is not a goldfarmers dream to say the least
Let me know what you think, any ideas or changes? I want to add Ysera, but do not own her at the time.
I go to open Hearthstone, the "checking for updates" message come up like usual. It downloaded a couple thing and now is stuck on the "starting battle.net" message. It timed out once and told me to restart the computer so I did. Same process but has not timed out yet. It has been stuck for almost 5 minutes now. Any suggestions or any one else having this occur?
Yup, RNG does make changes to the events of a game, and can determine the outcome. When it is in your favor its amazing, when it is not, then it sucks. It is just that way. hopefully your are on the positive side of chance, but it is all that, chance. It does make it fun, you have to agree RNG does because RNG is involved in every aspect of every card game that is electronically based. If not, everything would be stacked in perfect order and situation and their would be zero variation from that. Yup getting devilsaur when you need critter sucks, but when you need devilsaur and you get it, it rocks and your opponent is pissed. It has to be that way, every one has to be butt hurt from time to time, or the game would be boring as hell.
Yeah I totally get what your saying and agree with you. It all really depends on your play style and what your playing against. How is your record with this deck?
Glad I did not craft tinkmaster, this change just crushes him and makes him unplayable hes just a more consistence cheaper Gelbin. In some cases hes is worse then him now. At least the Random chance of Chicken Cannon is funny and not a fricken Dinosaur.
Now, Paggle will still be good, but way less win on its own, like cards should be. I think its a good balance change for him. This simply lowers the gap between him and the other draw cards. He is still better than all of them and will still be in almost any deck. If he gets killed immediately, its like gaining a minimum of 4 life possibly more, and against rush, thats an okay trade. If you stick him t1/2 against control you probably will get the same old value out of him. It really is only a buff to stone beak owl, not much else.
0
It would be nice to be able to access a book that says "if X happens Y will occur", believe me I wish we had something like that. What I was referring to was an interface that could start and stop actions during events like MTGO, which would ruin the game.Plus they want the game moving fast and able to not have to deal with pauses and starts so that style of UI is not possible with hearthstone. I get the "need" but in reality it is a ton of trial and error which is part of the game. It sucks losing a game because you thought something would occur in a specific order and was wrong, I have had it happen a few times. But I learned from it and it reduced future mistakes I normally would of made. The game is streamlined and works very well. This is also the "first" real season, they will make changes and listen to the player base. Give them time to work on it. They have like 20 people working on the game and we all want different things like replays and new content. They cant give it all at once.
0
Looking at the deck, it looks and feels like a perfect storm. by that I mean, if you do not draw perfect and your opponent draws bad, you lose. The way modern aggro is this has a very hard time standing up to it (zoo and hunter). By standing on the, "20 points of burst" box, you put yourself in a corner that is hard to get out of. Listen to what all these people are saying, it is positive input in reality. If you did not want the criticism on how it is bad and how it needs to change, why would you post the deck.
When you are looking at a deck idea, you have to look at how it fairs to zoo and hunter right now. Clearly this deck just looses to zoo by simply getting multiple taunts on the board, and to hunter by trying to race it, both of which the decks do very well. You need more card draw, mana totems would be a great addition, which would probably push this deck to more of a mid range deck. Just consider the things mentioned instead of just turning the ideas away quickly.
0
Here is a thought, and maybe I am looking at it the wrong way.
In the case of damage and healing, all effects are applied at the same time, in this case, turning baron 2 dmg AOE into a 1 dmg AOE, not reducing all health to zero and then raising to 1. The animation shows it that way because all cards have to have the full effect recognized by the player, and is a state based effect.
In the case of death rattles, if two creatures die at the same time, death rattle occurs the instant the creature dies, checks the state of the board and resolves. With windrunner, she dies, sees nothing on the table (State based effect) and resolves. With cairne, he dies, waits for state based effects to trigger and resolve then resolves himself.
here is an easy way to look at it in script
- windrunner attacks cairne
- Lethal damage is dealt to both creatures
- Death Rattles trigger (Cairne and Windrunner)
- State based effects trigger (Windrunner checks status of board sees no creatures, Cairne dies single to summon Baine)
- State based effects resolve (Windrunner has no target board is empty, Cairne is dead Baine is being summoned)
- Death Rattles resolve (Windrunners Death Rattles "fizzles", Baine enters board)
- New state based in effect (Baine on board all future events occur from this point forth)
This is why windrunner does not take a baine bloodhoof.
This is the best way I see the order of events in the game. The more complex the card the more layers in essence the events have for others to trigger. This can take a ton of time to think through and even more when you have multiple triggers and state based effects occuring.
We cant have a stack like MTG, we can pause it and move through it at our own speed, with hearthstone we cannot it all happens no matter what unless we want a crappy clunky UI, and if you want that, play MTGO.
0
This is something that completely blows my mind. Why would people take the time to simply shut down a game or site that people use? I get they think its funny or something to accomplish, but really what does it do for them? Bragging rights? Self fulfillment? Sexual arousal? Come on, it seems like a huge waste of time to simply just annoy other people. Maybe some one can open my mind to this type of behavior, I simply do not get why people do these things.
0
Brewmaster is a tempo loss unless you play it late, but still bad. what would you rather play, a brew master bouncing peacekeeper to recast, or cast Tirion? By the late game you want to be dropping cards that are game winners, not tempo cards. Everything the control pally does is only getting to the end game. Pally has an ultra powerful endgame and longevity, bouncing cards is counter productive the vast majority of the time. I have never went, man, if I could just recast my defender, that would win me the game.
Brewmaster is better in an agro style of deck so you can bounce little things and recast same turn to add power and reapply buffs.
0
Faceless is a great card to dust for. That is one of the few epics I would consider doing it for. Its like crafting a copy of any legendary that is played. I have two, crafted 1 and opened another, very good investment for dust.
0
my opinion because I have crafted both and have thought this through a crazy amount.
If you plan on playing control in any other deck, Rag is a great investment, if not rag is not that special
If you plan on playing Paladin at all, Tirion is amazing. You can play him in midrange or control decks, but only in Paladin.
Personally I like Tirion over Rag in the Paladin deck, he is harder to kill, gets tons of value when he dies, and still adds value after he dies.
Rag is the RNG god and wins because of it.
Simple as this, if you are going to play Paladin, Tirion is a better choice, if you plan on not playing Paladin for long, Rag is a better choice.
Only DE you golden Mally for a legendary, epics are easier to craft and open unlike legendaries.
0
I crafted him because i randomly started playing paladin and he is extremely powerful. Probably one of the most powerful cards in the game, especially since tinkmaster is gone. I would DE one of them, keep the other. I have only DE'ed a couple legendaries, two peggles since the nerf, and a hogger when i first started. Other than that hold on to them because they are so much to craft. Plus, look at this way, unless you have enough dust to make another legendary instantly, your trading for 1 epic or 4 rares (1 golden) or 10 commons (4 golden). Does that sound like a positive trade to you? keep one DE the other
0
Always nice to get some input, things can always be improved on.
Noble Sac does a few things though. It is a removal against agro, messes with math with it comes to removal of creatures like Rag and gives you a early temp swing against Zoo. on turn three against agro it allows you to Pyromancer, Noble to kill all 1hp minions, then will kill anything that swings the next turn for the most part. its underplayed in control and is very powerful. Most people are not thinking about it for some reason and really does some good things when ever it is triggered.
I have tried both of the cards you mentioned. I liked kings, but it felt like a win more card really unless it was on a token, and at that point i would rather run a Leroy Jenkins for burst or removal.
I might try sword again once I start playing more control decks. Going over the top seems important at that point and the extra power and toughness will matter more than likely. Thank you for your suggestions.
0
Here is the updated deck. It is largely improved. Winning about 75% of my games easily.
I added a Doomsayer to essentially time walk agro decks in the early game where they can build a huge huge lead if im not already holding a board wipe. Have not tried it out. I added a Big Game Hunter for big creatures that can be hard to deal with along with a Sylvanas Windrunner which had huge punches to the power of the deck.
Any one have any input?
0
Here is the write up as well for it that I posted with the deck
Design:
It is a pretty typical control deck, but here are the things it really is tuned for. With the current meta (currently at rank 12) I am seeing about;
85% agro, mostly zoo, some warrior
5% midrange, usually mage
10% control mostly warrior or handlock5% random stuff like hunters with weird builds
With the meta being so aggro heavy it was easy to skew it in a manner that really increased the likelihood of winning. Pyromancer early usually just wins the games outright with things like equality and consecrate
I probably have a win % in the 70-75% against zoo, 65% against warrior, and 80% against hunters simply because its easy to keep them from comboing off. Overall you are highly likely to win against agro.
The deck can match handlock punch for punch if not go over the top of their giants just buy holding board wipes for giants. Once they cast Lord Jarraxus, you are more than likely to a point where you should win because they are hurting and your board is very much in a good standpoint.
Against other controls you simply are looking to match 1-1 trades, get a positive 2-1 if possible and save your equalities for high value. It becomes a very slow game but with your heals and wipes you can usually outlast their finishers.
Against mid-range I have found that you want to be the aggresor, your creatures are typically to powerful and your boards wipes give you lots of playroom. If you stick a Terrion you win, its almost impossible to lose at this point unless you already are.
The deck as a really interesting curve to it, climbing up to 4 very well, falls to 1 card at 5 being a faceless, then the same style of curve back to the top end. The great thing about this is in the mid game you want to be able to cast multiple cards during turns 5-7. This is where you win or lose the game most of the time. If you can enter turn 8 with board control, you are likely winning the game. Focus on those turns the most, draw out removal with cards like sunwalker and cairne so your giant or terrion can win the game.
Yeti is a solid late game card. Not many creatures can deal well with him and his large body can soak some damage, do not underestimate him.
The scariest matchup is the Control Warrior running armorsmith. You have to be the aggressor in this matchup or you fall behind fast and its so hard to catchup with their board wipes and shield slams, Armorsmith must die ASAP, the next target is frothing berserker. those two creatures will win the game on their own and can trade for every card in your deck. Draw out shield slams ASAP and get Rag to stick and you are in the winners circle.
Overall for this meta and what I have come up against most matches are winnable if you take your time and make good decisions. You will be in some bad spots but your heals and wipes will catch you up. Do not waste the heal if it isnt needed, your probably ahead and no use wasting resources if something bad happens.
The deck can adapt very well to any match-up, I honestly believe it is an underplayed deck in favor of the decks you see streamers play. It is fairly boring to play because you have to think and games usually last about 20 minutes. It is not a goldfarmers dream to say the least
Let me know what you think, any ideas or changes?
I want to add Ysera, but do not own her at the time.
0
I go to open Hearthstone, the "checking for updates" message come up like usual. It downloaded a couple thing and now is stuck on the "starting battle.net" message.
It timed out once and told me to restart the computer so I did. Same process but has not timed out yet. It has been stuck for almost 5 minutes now. Any suggestions or any one else having this occur?
0
Yup, RNG does make changes to the events of a game, and can determine the outcome. When it is in your favor its amazing, when it is not, then it sucks. It is just that way. hopefully your are on the positive side of chance, but it is all that, chance.
It does make it fun, you have to agree RNG does because RNG is involved in every aspect of every card game that is electronically based. If not, everything would be stacked in perfect order and situation and their would be zero variation from that. Yup getting devilsaur when you need critter sucks, but when you need devilsaur and you get it, it rocks and your opponent is pissed. It has to be that way, every one has to be butt hurt from time to time, or the game would be boring as hell.
0
Yeah I totally get what your saying and agree with you. It all really depends on your play style and what your playing against. How is your record with this deck?
0
Glad I did not craft tinkmaster, this change just crushes him and makes him unplayable hes just a more consistence cheaper Gelbin. In some cases hes is worse then him now. At least the Random chance of Chicken Cannon is funny and not a fricken Dinosaur.
Now, Paggle will still be good, but way less win on its own, like cards should be. I think its a good balance change for him. This simply lowers the gap between him and the other draw cards. He is still better than all of them and will still be in almost any deck. If he gets killed immediately, its like gaining a minimum of 4 life possibly more, and against rush, thats an okay trade. If you stick him t1/2 against control you probably will get the same old value out of him. It really is only a buff to stone beak owl, not much else.