Hearthpwn

I find it interesting how in their stream the only deck that lost was the rogue deck playing this card, and also how they showed absolutely no new rogue cards. Just sayin' :D

Here is the reality of the situation...

Turn1... You play The Caverns Bellow, so you are one card down.

Then for the next few turns you just wish that you get your duplicating/bouncing things, which are otherwise not very efficient to play. So, you'll be behind on tempo and health A LOT probably.

Turn5+ You waste even more tempo (or card advantage with: Preparation) playing Crystal Core.

In order to turn???(i'd bet at best turn6, on average turn8-9) have a board of like 4-5 cheap minions or tokens that will all be 5/5.

It feels gimmicky as fuck.

^I didnt know that criticizing yet another underwhelming rogue card (the legendary of the set even) comming out is something that should be contained in a "group therapy" thread.

Worst rogue legendary yet.

Play 4 cards in ONE turn (how many rounds can you play 4 cards in one turn?) in order to be able to use a 5/3 minion next turn, doesnt even have charge. 

Edit: To play devils advocate a little here, maybe there's synergy with some other cards of the set that we havent seen. ...and maybe (not likely according to hs history) the meta is slow enough and rogue gets tools to survive until turn10+ to take advantage of this through N'Zoth. I want to remain hopeful. :/

Quote from s2mikey >>

Hmmm. The opinions here are quite different.  I'm trying to make a Malygos rogue deck work in standard and was wondering about this Xaril guy.  Obviously I'm running two gadgetzans and most of the other usual Malygos cards.  I do not have Eddie van cleef but don't really miss him.  I love the idea of a few extra cheap spells for this deck but that 3/2 body is so weak and costs 4 mana.  I have a lot of dust so crafting him isn't a problem.  I also wonder what cards I'd nuke to make room for him?  I do run one dark iron skulker.  Maybe he can go?  One violet teacher could go?  Not sure.

Thoughts?

Quote from Rencol >>

As mainly paladin, druid and to some extend warlock player (was mage at beta), im outraged what they did to my classes, and you rogues are bitching? You get so many new toys that im considering becoming rogue /shaman player tommorow. C'Thun rogues are going to be a beast

Sure... The card could be fun for a few days and then completely useless and after that you may be so broke that you dont have the competitive decks that you would have liked to have.

Also, you could just open it in a pack.

That said, i'll probably craft it too. lol.

13 free packs, +however many required until first (or if i feel like it second too) legendary. Will probably depend on what i'll get in those first  packs. So, probably ~20 (1 legendary) or ~40 (2 legendaries).

Then arena maybe, since it's giving only oldgods packs and i'm pretty good at it.

The first few days after the recent announcements (the nerfs and the new cards) have been hard for combo rogue players. The majority of us (me included) have reached a point of hearthstone-depression and thought that Blizzard is likely to not even want combo to be a thing any more outside of Freeze mage. There was of course a minority of players that were saying that we're exagerating. Were we? Lets consider the possibilities in this thread.

Most people expected Maly-rogue to remain a thing after the release of the new expansion. That's what i'll examine, i dont see any other viable possibilities. One alternative worth mentioning is maybe Southsea Deckhand + Cold Bloods + Faceless Manipulator, but i dont consider it as likely to be good as Maly-rogue could be.

Now on to the big questions...

What's the damage mitigation/heal/taunts going to be? What replaces Antique Healbot and/or Sludge Belcher in Maly-rogue decks? I think the most obvious-safe option is Earthen Ring Farsheer. The question then becomes will we need a second card? ...and if so what will that card be? I think that in a meta that is likely to revolve around aggro/mid-range Shaman we're likely to want more heal/taunt than just one farsheer. I belive that the second one is likely to be: Psych-o-Tron.

What will we do after the nerf of Blade Flurry? What are the implications of this nerf, what purpose(s) did it serve and with what can it be replaced? ...or can we still run it as a one of with 2xpoisons? It obviously helped mostly to turn the tides in the mid-game and could also be used as a finisher. Maybe it's not needed as much any more with the absence of many sticky minions. Also, 1-health minions could be a thing in future divine shield aggro paladin, and hunter so Fan of Knives could suffice in those situations. ...and Fan of Knives and a spell-damage minion could take care of most zoo-warlock minion if that remains a thing. The rest could be taken care of by SI:7 Agent, Backstab, Shadow Strike etc. So, maybe the biggest problem is the fact that it had two uses.

On to card specifics:

Is Xaril, Poisoned Mind going to be helpful? I think so, but i have my doubts if it will be good enough if the meta is fast. So, i find it likely to be removed from the deck in certain metas.

Is Shadowcaster going to be useful? I saw that many people loved this card for every type of rogue, but i'm just not seeing its appeal in maly-rogues. Could still try it as a one-off i guess, it surely requires testing but i find the fact that it requires set-up or super-late-game unappealing.

Is Yogg-Saron, Hope's End going to be good for (combo) rogues? I like it, and i'm going to try it for sure. I feel like it's like to be a board clear, card draw and 1-2 secrets all in one. Things that maly-rogues like. Could still be way too slow and too random though. Not sure.

Is Silithid Swarmer a card we'd like to see in (combo) rogue decks? I think that it's not a very bad card but while some could argue that we need some early game to help in the absence of Blade Flurry in the mid-game i doubt that this card will help.

Journey Below is a possibility, to strengthen the early game but also be able to cycle it through auctioneer. Probably not though.

Evolved Kobold: Stats are very underwhelming, but the effect is powerful. I doubt that this could see play but i think it requires testing.

Do we need to run a Violet Teacher? In short i think probably not but maybe it's a card worth considering. Could be even stronger than before with most of the spammy minions gone people might run less AoE.

From the cards that i mentioned above i find Xaril to be by far the most likely to work, still i think that the rest are worth mentioning.

How many Shadow Strikes and Saps will we need to run? I am putting sap in the same question as Shadow Strike because i feel like they're in competition. I feel like 2x Shadow Strike and 1x Sap. Maybe if the meta is full of huge minions (for example: ramp druids) sap could be the  better choice. Not sure.

 How many Shivs, Fan of Knives, and Sinister Strikes? Maybe 2x Shiv, 2x Fan and 1x Sinister?  

Am i missing something? 

I have a deck ready to try when the expansion hits, reading my comments above i think that it's obvious what it will look like. No need to link it and reduce the discussion to commenting on the deck instead of the issue at hand.

I've seen many pros not being optimistic at all about the future of (combo) rogues, and i've seen them saying that the future is probably with the deathrattle stuff. Anyway, because i'm trying to be optimistic here (and the possibilities are there) i think that... There's the chance that we could finally manage to get a viable second archetype (with combo being first) so that our opponents when they see rogues dont exactly know how to mulligan against us.

Quote from rapshade >>

The difference between combo Druid and oil rogue is basically the choices and complexity of decision making for rogues. The thing is if you play a gadgetzan miracle rogue cthun variant it will be just as complex in decision making as it is now.

 

There will be a new tier bellow the old shaman tier which will be the: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA* combo rogue in 2016 tier.

This is my prediction.

*Original Ben Brode laugh.

I dont know why people are saying this weapon thing, maybe because they felt that it has to be the reason that Blade Flurry was nerfed.

The problem with rogue is that they killed the archetype that makes the supreme majority of people play rogue, that's all types of combo rogue. What they did is almost like (for example:) removing the cheap control tools from warrior and then implying that it should only be aggro pirate class from now on, at least until the next expansion.  

It is you who is underreacting (is that even a word?).

They nerfed the main reason rogue was still tier3 (lol, it was tier3 and they took away things): Blade Flurry. At the same time they introduced NOTHING to keep us at the previous tier3 power level. 

The only thing that might work(it doesnt look too powerful either) is a minion-based rogue which most rogues dont want. We arent playing rogue to mulligan for low drops play on curve and maybe win, if we wanted to do that we'd be playing something else.

Quote from KayRule >>

Rogue and Druid fucking sucked. Get over it, now you have to actually play instead of auto-pilot easy wins. If only Paladin got a nerf too.

They murdered all types of combo rogue, there's nothing awesome about them.