Hearthpwn

I dont get it - they (rightly) nerf Denathrius and at the same time print Astalor Bloodsworn.  I know he doesn't have lifesteal, but he also doesn't need to infuse and has some use early game.  Obviously he's also busted with Brann, who at this stage is becoming a joke of a card.  Blizz don't even need to refund for Brann, so why not just get rid of him again?

I feel like Blizz are trolling us at this point...

This whole game has turned into a shitshow.  There are so many stupid, uninteractive nonesense plays that it sometimes feels like a pointless waste of time.  I seriously wonder if they every play-test anything before they release it.  A lot of the games now might as well be a coin toss. 

Brann is an obviously broken card (in the context of modern hearthstone) which should have been consigned permanantly to wild.  He was fun - no doubt about it, but the power spikes that exist now make him vastly overpowered and very unfun for the opponent.

28 damage from hand on turn 7 against hunter who did nothing but attack face with weapons and kill my minions with spells.  Really fun - so much interaction.

It strikes me that Blizz put a lot of effort in to designing new cards only to have 90% of it go un-used because in the face of bullshit like that it's useless.

Has anyone else noticed that Xyrella animation speed is mega slow now (and as a result you can't use the hero power the same turn due to the timer running out)?

Maybe I just had a lot of deathrattles going off (i did) but it just felt reeeaalllyyy slow.

Ok - so I've opened my first set of cards and literally the first pack I open contains the signature version of Lor'themar Theron, the card I got free seconds earlier for logging on to the rewards track,

Neither card is disenchantable and I got no option for a re-roll when I got the signature card (which was opened after the normal version.)  Is this the way it's supposed to work, cause if so, it really sucks!  I dont like the signature cards (the art is really jarring to me and very out of touch with every other card), and I certainly dont want 2 of any card that I can only use one of.

:(

I think they could definitely roll out somthing similar to the other classes if it proved succesful, and in principle it does give them a separate way to balance cards/combinations without altering mana cost and effects.

Would they do it though?  I'm not sure they would as it seems like it would be a lot of work to balance card combo's which may not need balanced.  It also reduces the potential for deck variability (which is bad), but in practice there isn't much variability anyway due to net decks.

Arguably you could make the silence effect fizzle even if targeted.  It just feels like immune stops so many cards from working properly.  In a related way, I always though it was odd that some spells can be cast with no viable targets while others cant (unless they've changed this).

As for the nickname - there some classic 80's scifi involved (with some extra bits for practical reasons!!).  I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.

p.s. I would aruge this is really only an issue now because of Jailor, because in the past immune effects weren't permanent.

Anyone else think you should be able to attack immune minions?  It seems pretty stupid that the minion is there but you cant target it, and there are plenty of situations were it makes a massive difference (e.g. clearing a board spot).

Clearly the attack should do no damage (immune after all), but it just seems odd to me.

Probably has never really been an issue before Jailor, but it seems relevant now.

The one thing I don't get.  The Devs know that Theotar is not enjoyable - they stated as much in their own comments on the nerf (see below - bold for emphasis).  They don't want people to play it, because it stops you playing with your new shiny cards and it isn't fun.  Yet they release Patchwerk - a single blood Legendary which is going to feature in a high percentage of DK decks.  I know you don't get to choose the cards and it only targets minions, but Patchwerk isn't a tempo loss in the same way as Theotar and removes cards from deck as well (and targeting minions is often the intended goal of Theotar anyway).

Why is it fun to lose important cards to a new card, but not fun to lose them to a slightly older one?

The release of a new class is an incredibly exciting moment for Hearthstone players everywhere, and a moment that we want to be as enjoyable and accessible as possible. Knowing the importance of this new class release, our plan with Theotar was to test out a smaller change to the card (from 4 to 5 mana in Patch 24.4.3) before potentially moving for a larger change if necessary. Theotar’s play rate did not drop as far as we would have liked it to with the smaller change, and is still higher than we would like it to be leading into March of the Lich King. Our aim with this second change is to lower the card’s play rate to ensure that the release of Death Knight is as fun as possible for players with a wide variety of interests and experience levels.

I think it will be played as long as Denathrius exists in his current format, as he's the only semi reliable card to counter him.  This game ending, fun-destroying card has no real condition other than playing the game and will continue to be able to be used in pretty much every deck type until he rotates out. 

Seeing Denathrius used as the win-con in pretty much all the Death Knight showcase matches highlights how much of a problem card he is.  We now also have Denathrius v2 to contend with Astalor Bloodsworn, who obviously also combo's with Brann for extra fun (with discount/druid), so this is another valid target for Theotar.

While off topic for this thread, I think one of the reasons that aggro decks are considered easier than control relates to the mulligan and the consistency of drawing low mana, playable cards in the early game. A bad mulligan for a control deck can be game losing (being too greedy, mulliganing for the wrong opponent deck style or just getting high cost cards).  In contrast an aggro mulligan is nearly alway "get a 1 drop" which is easier to do due to the larger number of 1/2 drops included in the deck (im simplifiying, but you get the picture) and you're often not too concerned with which opponent you're playing against - that probably matters less than your own start (a bad mulligan still kills an aggro deck too - it's just much less likely to happen).

During the game the aggro gameplan is often fairly single minded and it's not really that cruicial which opponent you're playing.  While historically aggro had to manage resources and play around board clears, current hearhtstone doesn't punish plays into board clears anywhere near as much (that and the fact that contrary to their name, most board clears do not, in fact, clear a board).  Similarly, resources are much easier to come by, so you often don't need to hold things back in the same way as old (most aggro decks have very strong card draw engines now).

On the flip side, I think its really easy to look at an aggro gameplan and think there's nothing to it but to go face.  In reality a good aggro player will be thinking about total damage in two or three turns and deciding when to trade and when to go face, knowing which "outs" they have left in the deck.

Finally (and brining it back to this thread), aggro decks can now use Denathrius as a big FU to the control player who has managed to stabilise.  Sure, they're given up a slot for a card which can't be played until turn 10, but aggro games in the age of Renethal can easily stretch into this territory without running out of steam (look at imp-lock - multiple instant boards, multiple buffs etc.). 

I like the design aspect of this card (kinda) but it does seem a little forced to create "no minion" decks with the current minions.  Probably good enough to include in some decks even with minions, as the discover effect should increase consistency.

Basically like high-rolling Imp-losion except all the imps have rush (and it can go face)!

I don't really like cards like this - very sub-par if the condition isn't met -  OP if it is.  Didn't they learn from "no minion" mage?

It will either see no play at all because minionless decks will be rubbish, or it will be auto-include in all minionless decks.

Quote from emkarab >>

So yes, Sire is too good and too popular.

And also extremely unfun (imo).  This point is often missed but really is important given that the whole point of a game is to have fun.  Fun and balance are two seprate issues (although in this case I think they both apply).

I gotta say - I hope more than anything that they nerf/HoF Denathrius, especially with the nerf to Theotar (who is also a stupid card but will still end up being played because of Denathrius).  So many games where you lose because a card they had in hand becomes a win condition on its own basically just by playing the game.  Did you manage to steal/eat it? - you win.  No? You lose.  Even though Shaman isn't currently viable on ladder, the shennanigans possible in those decks is ever more stupid, where even a 10 damage Denathrius is enough to set up the OTK.

This isn't an "im salty" post, but playing against implock (for example) - you clear board after board, you finally stabilise, they're low on resources and then "boom" - game over.  Wow - much fun. 

It doesn't really generate any sort of meaningful counterplay or fun interaction.  Even playing it isn't fun (imo) - it's basically like an "I win" card if drawn at the appropriate time and it's super un-fun to have your own mega Denathrius stolen/eaten.

If it were up to me I would nerf him to minion damage only - a minion that clears a board and heals your hero to full and leaves a 10/10 lifesteal on the board is pretty good imo (though it would definitely see a lot less play than the current version).

Either way, Hearthstone is gonna be extremely un-fun if he's left as is until he rotates. 

But you cant - unless the warlock isn't playing anything.  How do you deal with the 3/4 guy or the 3/3 imps from the hero power?  They all need removed or you're definitely dead.