Hearthpwn

this is a really pretentious wall of text man.

control is just a different archetype.  It doesn't inherently require any more skill to pilot than an aggressive deck.  Some aggro decks are easy to pilot but the same can be said for control.  Some aggro decks require skill and forward thinking.  Skill comes from fundamentals and matchup knowledge.  

There are quite a few good non aggro decks right now.  bomb war, control war, big shaman, control shaman, mech paladin, miracle mage, summoner mage, midrange hunter, nomi priest.  How many aggro decks are there? Tempo rogue, bomb hunter, token druid, murloc shaman, zoolock...? that's all that comes to mind.

Quote from LameMeElC >>

 I also agree, and also sympathize, but I would like to add Big Shaman to this list. It's a brainless deck to play. As a bomb warrior player[...]

 >big shaman brainless

>bomb warrior requiring you to think

LEL

I get the concept and i'm not opposed to buffing some cards that are unplayable bad, but nerfs are better for balancing the game.  there is an ideal balance they want, and there are more cards that exceed that level than there are on the level.  It would be easier to just bring those cards down than move random other cards up.

You can't go by the overall winrates on hsreplay, it includes low rankings which favors decks that play themselves like bomb hunter. 

Rogue is the best deck.  Rogue was the best deck when Hsreplay had token druid as the only tier 1 deck a week or two ago, as well.  

0 people brought bomb hunter to worlds for the same reason not many brought token druid.  they have low skill floor's so it's easy to get a good winrate low on the ladder, but their play is very linear and beatable.  

It's a good deck but "king of the meta" is silly when rogue has a 30% playrate at legend.  

Lower waggle pick to 3 damage so it doesn't give free 3/3s the turn it's played and lowers its damage output.  It's still a strong card but gets rid of some of the burst tempo the deck offers.  It would do 6 damage instead of 8, and gives it less reach when removing minions.  With a greenskin it would do 10 damage instead of 13, which i think would start to really matter.  

Raiding Party to 4 mana.  I think this nerf is optional and maybe not necessary, this might not need a nerf with the above nerf I suggested because it makes the package a bit less impactful and you can't do insane plays like prep>raiding party>6/6 Edwin/Evil miscreant

You could also consider nerfing Miscreants health to 4.  The card already has a lot of value in it's combo so making it a little less sticky to buff with the lackeys would probably be fair.  I feel like bumping it's mana up to 4 is too harsh on that card.

I think when a class like Rogue is strong, you start looking at so many cards and you're like "why the hell is sap so powerful?" and while sap is a super strong card, it only feels so powerful right now because of the amount of consistent burst Rogue are putting out.  I really like the way the current tempo rogue plays, it's super fun but it's way too strong.  I would like to nerf the cards in ways that makes them weaker but doesn't force you to just remove the nerf card and slap something else in.

Outside of Rogue.  Dr. Boom/control warrior late game needs a nerf.  that is a lot more tricky than just lowering the tempo of a tempo deck.  You could consider changing the aura to "The first mech(s) you summon each turn have Rush" instead of all mechs.  So you could use the hero power to get 3 1/1s with rush, or you could play a dude from hand with rush, but you wouldn't be able to just omega assembly and spam the board with rush dudes.  A control deck shouldn't have the insane amounts of tempo late game that warrior has, the value is fine.  

You could also consider dropping Omega Devestator's damage to 6.  A 4 mana 4/5 with rush that has battlecry deal 10 damage is a bit insane.  And with Dr. Boom/Omega assembly's mech generation, it's not uncommon to see this guy like 4 times in a game.  It could still deal 10 damage to a dude if Dr. Boom is up, but at least you would have to trade the thing into whatever you were hitting instead of going 2-1 for cheap so consistently.  

Conjurer's calling getting a mana bump is reasonable.  It already has insane value with twin spell but the cheap cost allows you to play something and play it possibly twice all in one turn, and that is when it starts to feel bonkers.  

Magic carpet to 4 mana or 1/5 stat line isn't a bad idea.  That thing is cheap and sticky as hell and pretty oppressive against board decks.  

Cards i'd like to be left alone:

Prep+Edwin - yes many Rogue decks use them but i feel like they're strong for class identity and many Rogue spells are overcosted because of prep so just randomly nerfing prep is not healthy.  If you want to hall of fame prep, do it next year while simultaneously releasing some cheap and good Rogue spells.  Edwin is only so strong right now because of the ammount of cheap resources you can generate in Rogue.  Lowering their tempo makes him less backbreaking and he has his downsides.  

Elekk- I don't actually care if this is nerfed because it's so greedy that it's generally wack

Hex- Leave shaman alone

Quote from Solarsurge >>

I've spent a significant amount of time compiling statistics of card values in Hearthstone after the new expansion. I have broken down stat lines, damage, restoration, battlecries, deathrattles, etc. on a per cost basis for every card in the standard set. I then took that a step further by calculating value if played "on curve" versus later in the game. I discovered quite a few cards that are surprisingly low average value that are played a lot and cards that are surprisingly high average value that nobody plays at all. I then took a deeper look into why such valuable cards were completely overlooked, and I discovered a common thread. Nearly ALL the high value "unplayed" cards are 8+ mana cards. After having this epiphony, I decided to compile statistics and data from various sources to ultimately determine why these cards aren't played and have finally, after weeks of research, discovered why...

According to the data, 74.6% of all situations those cards would be playable, they are already dead to a Waggle Picked Leeroy Jenkins. 

 i'm not sure if this post is serious or memeing but either way it's hilarious.  

Dire Frenzy, Master's call, Zul'jin.

You either dire frenzy a one mana thing, draw them, and burst with Rhino, or you dire frenzy the Rhino and continually burst them down.  Doesn't matter if they have rush when you have charge.  

The early game is just about pushing some chip damage, maybe getting a Hyena play, and making sure they don't win the board.  

You finish them with burst.  It's not a super easy matchup because you have to play around a lot of things and set things up, but it's favored for the hunter.  

It's not core to Summoner Mage, which is a very flexible deck with several different packages you can run.  The only thing that is truly core is Mountain Giant and Conjurer's Calling, even Khadgar is not core.

It's a good card if you want to build the deck in the dragon / extended value direction.  Playing it with a conjurer's calling on 10 or power of creation is a ton of value, and it can also discover a clutch spell when you don't have any other outs sometimes.  Kribo played a list with it to #29  legend two days ago so it's definitely a strong inclusion.   

As far as it's power on it's own, it's a good card.  Any deck that runs big spells going forward will probably play it.

Turn limit is fine and necessary.  

What they need to do is fix Elysiana so decks won't be reaching the turn limit.  

I'm fine with decks having fatigue is a win condition, Elysian is just unhealthy for the game and unfun.  I don't like the card in general, but I can accept one play of the card, but when you start playing it more than once that is just toxic.  

yeah that would be a great tech card in the current meta.  I'm confident rogue will be nerfed soon, though.  Something has to be done about the raiding party package.  Nerfing the weapon by one attack might fix it completely, but there are also options to bump something up one mana.  Rogue is all about the tempo so just bumping one thing by a mana crystal will have huge results.   

so absurd.  i played 15 flawless turns but lose to hunter because he draws better.  i guess thats fair and i sohuld have played around it but im a trash player and dont deserve to fuckinjg live;l

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from bickel >>

Play an OTK deck yourself, and see what beats you.

 rng.  rng beats you.  literally nothing else does.  you lose by drawing poorly.  you win by drawing normally.

 yeah this is just straight up wrong lol

0% chance I'm reading that. 

I honestly don't think it is possible for there to be a meta that satisfies control enthusiasts.  They are just beset with unreasonable expectations for a player type that has significant objectives in addition to winning.  The meme deck meta is dead too, they just don't make threads about it.  Come to think of it, aggro players and OTK players never make threads like this either.

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from lite0 >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

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Quote from Kaladin >>

Okay I'm crazy.  

We're all cool with the people who write the game playing in competitive ranked mode.  

Carry on. 

Unrelated, I have software that can see your opponent's hand and deck at all times, give you (but not your opponent) infinite turn time, gives you a menu to choose what your next draw will be, and tells you if there's a possible lethal on every turn.  Don't worry though I'm *not* using it. 

 

 RIP my sides.  I thought the "matchmaking was rigged" crowd were silly but this takes the cake.  The fact that you think like this says something about yourself.  

 That I'm the type of person to care about ethical responsibility?  Thanks!

 No.  you're the poster who compulsively posts about "perfect draws" and rng in the salt thread, yea? it's just very amusing that the first thing that comes to your mind when a developer plays on ladder is "What the fuck he could be cheating for PERFECT DRAWS?".

 Ahhhh this old schtick again.  You do realize that that thread is, don't you?  Are you aware we aren't currently posting in the irrational and purely emotionally reactive thread, meant for irrationally and angrily venting?

 His point is that your discussion about the devs cheating in their own game is leaning into conspiracy talk.  It's fine to be cautious as it's not something that's NEVER happened somewhere before, but, to be true, the same path between "the devs play the game" and "the devs are cheating to take advantage win their own game" is the same path between "I'm not getting the RNG/matches I want" and "the devs actively rigged the system to work against me." it's taking a few observations, developing an untested theory, and declaring "it could happen" thus "it is happening".

It's further made interesting since the very start of this thread was talk of Blizzard 'having no clue about the game' because they 'never play it'.  Talk about them playing was meant to be a defense to say "Yes, we know they DO play their game so they probably aren't clueless."  Thus the ramp to the other side, as if the answer should've been "The devs shouldn't be playing their own game then" is rather...jarring.

You aren't making a general appeal for ethics.  You are making a claim of unethical behavior.  Once you do that, you'll need some evidence beyond theory for the community to take it seriously.  Especially this one, who has seen FAR more than a few wars over how They Are Out To Get Us!

Two years of Shaman OMEGALUL

You can definitely replace Moorabi with Hagatha. She's just not as cool. Literally :p

Cryostasis is indeed what keeps the deck together, but if you are short on dust you can try with Earthen Might.

Default cardback is scary.

You are facing a Barbarian player, and you don't know whether it is just a careless guy or a relentless juggernaut.

Quote from dontBSaltyFAM >>

Fuck priest, I get it you are playing it because fuck hunter but I dont care. All you motherfuckers do is -nothing- for the first 5 turns unless you are playing dragons. While you are playing nothing with a thumb up your ass you sit on every degenerate aoe in the book grinning like a bitch. If you dont have said aoe you shadow visions for a COPY, you know the same fucked up tutor card that gives you 5 mindblast that you cant do shit about or 2 extra screams so you can continue to ignore the board turn after turn. After you have effectively done nothing but ignore(clear) shit because why trade with your high health minions you deal anywhere from 25 - 40 + in one turn from HAND with no board and thats just one variant not even counting alex or the fact that you can do over 40 with 1 mana remaining starting at turn 7 - 9. Why no one complains about this shit is beyond me. I dont even want to think about wild YUCK. Not even salty just real shit.

Stop giving this class janky ass aoe right before a rotation(mass hysteria) to replace the current one let this class die. 

And it is precisely for situations like these when I have to laugh at control players who complain that OTK decks are not interactive when the control playstyle itself is very often a 'hero power & pass' playstyle until you can force your opponent to commit to a board and squeeze value from never-ending removal. Nothing like presenting plays to your opponent on a silver platter to see if they can answer it.