People like you are never satisfied with the meta , if they actually nerf everything on your ridiculous list prob noobs like you would start a new list with card of the new dominant classes , honestly with this mindset you shoudn´t be playing a card game. Shame on you and grow up.
- lalaola
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TallStranger posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionQuote from TallStranger >>Because it IS wild.. and MUCH less popular "red-headed stepchild" of game modes. Standard being the main mode makes spending 16k of dust worth it because it is the current and most popular set of cards being used. Spending anywhere near that for wild decks is supremely wasteful to many players (and probably a huge majority of new players) that would just like to dabble in Wild now and again. This problem only gets worse the more expansions move to wild. Thrift store modes should have thrift store prices.
If you don't really want to pay money to go to a theatre you wait until the movie comes to Netflix right? Do you complain when movies hit Netflix and everyone can watch them because you went to the theatre and spent $20 on it? Obviously not a perfect analogy... but point being things that were worth money months/years ago shouldn't always hold that value/exclusiveness.
Speaking as someone who ladders on Wild and plays whatever deck I feel like and can afford in Standard, believe me when I say that the vast majority of dedicated Wild players could not care less whether the "cool kids" from Standard come over to play with us. So the idea that you're doing us a favor by hanging out at the "thrift shop" is a joke. As I've said before, the Wild meta is more diverse, more challenging and more interesting than the snooze-fest that is Standard right now. ("Oh good, another no-minion Mage." Yawn.) Put bluntly, Wild is better than Standard right now and has been for a long time. So you want to escape a crappy meta AND be rewarded with free cards for the privilege? Hell, no.
To use your movie analogy, I don't expect people to pay the same watching a movie on Netflix as I did in the theater. But they damn well SHOULD have to pay for it.
Who said that standard players are the "cool kids" that are doing you a favour by hanging out with you? Based on your argument it rather sounds like you believe that wild players are the "cool kids" who wants to be left alone.
And it does not sound like you understand the movie analogy. You do pay for Netflix, you just pay less.I think you're misreading my comments (or I'm not explaining my views clearly). In terms of the "cool kids" statement, what I was rebutting was the "thrift shop" comment he made and the implication that because Wild is less popular than standard, we Wild players should be happy to have more people from Standard "come over." Let me be clear: I could not care less if more people come over to Wild. We are not so desperate for more players that people should get free Wild cards. In fact, we're not desperate at all. Wild is, IMO, doing just fine. If people want to play Wild, great, happy to have them. But they shouldn't, in essence, be paid to play Wild, which is exactly what will happen if these cards are given away.
As for the Netflix comment, that was exactly my point. Watching a movie on Netflix is cheaper than doing so at the theater. But it is not free. Similarly, I am fine with providing some sort of discount (in either gold or dust) for Wild cards, but I am opposed to giving away these cards for free.
Hope this clarifies my position.
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Strongpoint posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionNoone is against cheaper cards, just refund the dust difference and everybody will be happy.
This reminds me MTG and those "WOTC should never reprint cards because my collection loses value!" people. But those guys look reasonable in comparison because they do lose potential profit from selling their collection. Hearthstone players lose nothing from price going down but they still complain because of some virtual - "I could wait to this day and get cards cheaper!"
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Oddling77 posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionQuote from TallStranger >>Quote from Terrorsquid66 >>Quote from Terrorsquid66 >>No way. That is so unfair to old players. I had to pay full price for my old cards and I didn’t dust them because i wanted to play wild. New players or players that CHOSE to disenchant their old cards for standard shouldn’t immediately be able to get the old cards easier just cause they want to. That’s so entitled.
Work up your collection like everyone else had to!Man you are going to hate the real life.
stuff lose value, just because you payed full price when it was more valuable does not mean that you are entitled to be guaranteed compensation if the price drops. It is another story if they actually change the card, because then your product is changed by them.Who cares? Games don’t have to suck like real life lmao. I don’t want them to. In fact i want to feel rewarded for my investment and time spent in this game! This is a digital card game. The value doesn’t have to drop unless it’s literally manipulated to. That isn’t fair to old players and the only reason you say ”haha life isn’t fair breh get over it” is because it benefits YOU this time around.
Things lose value over time. Wild is getting harder and harder with each expansion for jew players to get into. You can ignore that and not care, that's fine for you personally but it feels like a wasted opportunity for Blizzard to help get more active players into a game mode as well as making money at the same time. From a business perspective it doesn't seem to make sense to keep them feeling like they just can't get into it.
You all keep saying that "things lose value over time," but that's absolutely not true. SOME of the old cards are essentially valueless, but that's true of new cards as well. Every expansion has pack filler. But the good cards in Wild are still very valuable. Reno, Kazakus, Guldan, Anduin, Loatheb, and others still are tremendously valuable. So why should you get these valuable cards for free when others have paid good money or dust for them?
As others have mentioned, the notion that Wild decks are very expensive is simply not true. There seems to be this vision that Wild decks consist of 27 legendaries and 3 spells. That's just not true. Building a Wild deck doesn't need to be expensive. Sure, there are wallet decks, but that's true of Standard right now as well. Rush Warrior isn't cheap: the version currently on Tempostorm costs over 16k. The most expensive Tier 1 deck in Wild right now is probably Reno Priest, which "only" costs 14k, but the other ones run between 4 and 7k dust and use a sizable number of Standard cards.
Sure, if you want to create some bizarre niche deck, it's going to cost you (whether in Standard or Wild). But quite frankly that's a luxury that you SHOULD have to pay for. Lots of f2p players can't afford every Standard card. Why should anyone be entitled to doing so in Wild is beyond me.
Because it IS wild.. and MUCH less popular "red-headed stepchild" of game modes. Standard being the main mode makes spending 16k of dust worth it because it is the current and most popular set of cards being used. Spending anywhere near that for wild decks is supremely wasteful to many players (and probably a huge majority of new players) that would just like to dabble in Wild now and again. This problem only gets worse the more expansions move to wild. Thrift store modes should have thrift store prices.
If you don't really want to pay money to go to a theatre you wait until the movie comes to Netflix right? Do you complain when movies hit Netflix and everyone can watch them because you went to the theatre and spent $20 on it? Obviously not a perfect analogy... but point being things that were worth money months/years ago shouldn't always hold that value/exclusiveness.
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P4dge posted a message on Lower the cost for the creation of old cards to make it easier for new players to enter wild.Posted in: Wild FormatWild isn’t more expensive then standard. There are several cheap decks (around 4-5k dust) like secret mage, token druid, odd decks in general (mainly paladin), odd warrior, odd dh, aggro pala, handbuff pala, libram pala is cheap if you have the standard cards, big priest (vargoth is the only legendary), darkglare (no legendarys required), apm mage ( only stargazer luna, Mozaki version is worse then wakers ), murloc shaman (if you have the standard cards, btw you don’t need the quest it’s bad), quest rouge, discard lock, new cute zoolock (both need only Solarium and no epics), pirate warrior (quite expensive, needs rokara, patches, Leroy (patches is a good craft for rogue aggro (odd/kingsbane) and token druid with minions). Most expensive slow decks use the same legendarys (Reno, kazakus, zola, zilliax). Raza priest isn’t as expensive as you might think plus the highlander cards see play outside of it. Very expensive are greedy renolocks and control warlocks, reno lunas pocket Galaxy mage, things like Reno shudder shaman (in general all greedy decks, but they tend to be bad:D)
best decks right now should be apm mage (if played right), handbuff pala, darkglare, secret mage -> all cheap.
if you are really interested in wild you should look at the vs data reaper report for wild. You will see that it isn’t as expensive as you would think, many standard cards see play, and keep in mind that dust cost on websites don’t take the cards you have got for free in the core set into account (e.g. the 5 cost 3/3 divine shield tutor)
Someone else has already explained in a different thread that not everyone just wants to hop on with a cheap, effective deck and climb.
I've started playing wild and don't give a hoot about climbing. This discussion isn't solely about competitive wild, it's around the fact that there's clearly a gap for a good amount of players and it's how can we make wild more affordable for people who want to experience old cards but not necessarily try hard at the ladder side of things.
As long as you only see this through the lens you've posted above, you're just going to be talking past people. Not everyone wants a cheap, OP deck. A big part of the appeal of wild is getting to use those expensive, cool cards that you maybe weren't around for when they were in standard. Cards like the death knights, kazakus etc are cards that some people have just never been able to experience. Telling people to craft a secret mage deck isn't helpful at all, they may not want to grind out wins with a single cheap deck.
Basically you're responding to a very narrow part of the overall issue.
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Kinkyjohnfowler posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionWild cards should be discounted when they rotate and eventually become free (or extremely cheap) the older they become.
GvG costing the same as FitB is absurd.
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TallStranger posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionQuote from I_Feel_Ur_Pain >>making wild cheaper is not going to get me to play wild nor will it make it less boring. This poll is garbage the people who voted yes. Probably love mill rez priest and secret mage lmao.
OK? What's the post for then? Does it make you feel better?
This is, sadly, typical of this really weird "Wild is trash" mindset some of the people here have. The number of times I see this "No one cares about Wild" nonsense is depressing. Personally, I find Battlegrounds stupid and boring, but I'd never even consider going onto the BG forum and saying something that childish. I understand that some people like it and that doesn't affect me at all. But then, I'm a grown-up.
And, for the record, for a very long time Wild had a much healthier meta than Standard did. There was a much broader diversity of decks, with several classes having viable decks for laddering, and more parity. Even now, it's in decent shape. Sure, the power level is much higher than in Standard, but since the power differential between decks is small, it's still very competitive. Which people would know if they actually played Wild rather than talked out of their a##.
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P4dge posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General Discussionwild isnt that expensive. There are relatively cheap decks: secret mage, pirate warrior, token druid, odd pala, handbuff pala, new cute zoo, discolock, big priest ( good version runs one legendary (vargoth)), odd dh, apm mage (only stargazer luna is legendary), murloc shaman (if you have flurgl for standard you only need murkeye), odd warrior, even hunter. and many of the slower decks require the same legendarys like reno, zeph, zilliax.
All very good points but not ones that people who aren't exposed to wild would be aware of. I can only speak from my own perspective but I've always assumed I'll need cards from across different expansion sets and years, I have no idea where to start and I assume that wild is generally a handful of stupidly op decks that generally just crush the things around it.
Now I'm more than happy to accept I'm wrong, it very much seems I am but it isn't the facts that always the only important thing, perception is often an over riding factor and the perception for me is that wild is basically a no go because I'm too behind. There's a mage thread on the go where some people have actually been very helpful in suggesting cards etc so I'm going to give it a go but yeah, I still think they can do more to get people involved and I think if they did do that, they would benefit from both engagement and people buying packs they otherwise wouldn't have.
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P4dge posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionQuote from TallStranger >>I think all wild cards should be free and available to all players. It's a lot less popular than standard, and the entry cost is way to high to newer players.
Well that doesn't seem reasonable. For one you'll annoy everyone who paid for those cards, a load of them will have only been released a year earlier and for another, that seems like a terrible business decision in that you absolutely would lose a load of players to wild and wild only. People who may pre order will likely think "what's the point? I get these cards for free soon anyway."
These are the sort of suggestions that just seem really unhelpful to me. You have to accept that they need to make money etc so instead of purely going with a view that is completely pro player, you need at least some middle ground that's pro business as well.
'just make it free' just seems incredibly unrealistic and isn't going to further the discussion of what reasonable changes could actually be made.
Agreed. As someone who has been playing this game for a loooong time, I'd be furious if wild cards were provided free to everyone. I sunk hard earned money and time (via gold) building up a pretty great Wild collection: the idea that someone who didn't invest any time or money into these older expansion getting a better collection than me is insulting.
I would say that it might be nice for Blizzard to do special sales or (as another poster suggests) crafting discounts, but if you want to play Wild, you should have to invest in it.
Fair enough, I agree. I think there's some leeway to be had with making it more accessible, especially as time goes on, it just gets more daunting every rotation. I think some special promos/sales is a fair compromise, won't give everyone the whole collection but does make it easier to get into without having to commit hundreds of whatever your chosen currency is.
Maybe even a 'welcome to wild' thing like the returning player deck. If you've not played wild for more than 4 months, you can pick a decent ish deck that can give you something to play at least. Make it so you can't dust it so people don't just abuse free dust every 4 months. I don't want the whole collection but a few important cards to get you going would definitely get me to dip my toe in and potentially then put money/gold into building a wider collection.
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P4dge posted a message on Make it easier for new players to play Wild.Posted in: General DiscussionWell, the point of Wild is to play OLD cards and decks. So, "Wild" and "new player" are pretty much an oxymoron IMO.
Not necessarily, just because it's old, that doesn't mean you don't bother trying to make it attainable. They have made a few steps towards this in the past, with specific wild bundles at discounted amounts and those types of bundles would be great.
I don't see why you can't have a £40 bundle which gives you X packs from each of the old sets, along with a legendary or two from each. Ignore the figures, I've not thought them through but my point remains. Offer a few different bundles that scale in price and people like me who haven't bothered with wild really, would be happy to put some money in there. That's money they won't generate otherwise.
I do think it's a tad odd that they don't scale old content with prices. Just seems like a wasted opportunity. Plenty of games make older content easier to access and get to than the most current stuff.
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Nah, mage players suck.
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How entitled can you be. Expecting packs for playing something that you get for free. Do not play it if you dont find it fun.
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It is one pack. Just have fun, it is not all to gain dust.
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Play something else then . Or accept that all match ups are not good.
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Imagine being so salty that you just have to make a post about it.