Hearthpwn

Quote from Czhorat >>

Quote from kreptoman >>

In my experience, cubelock is easier to beat than classic control warlock since cubelock even if he cheats out a demon, it has a chance to be a doomguard, and doomguard is not so much of an issue if you played properly, since you still have the upper hand (he's closer to death than you). You still have some chance to beat him after he cheats out doomguard or cubes the doomguard. You are the beatdown in this matchup, so you shouldn't care that much about your health. 

It might be worth carrying an ooze against cubelock. Cubelock (and their cousin controllock) beatable if you can avoid letting them cheat a demon out without having to summon it. That means that you have to destroy the skull before it gives them a "free" doomguard and you can't let the possessed lackey die on their turn. Either silence it, sap it, or kill it and THEN kill (or, better, sap) the resulting demon. That prevents the two-turn combo in which you'll take three hits from the same initial doomguard.

I wouldn't craft him just because he is not irreplaceable in any deck, and I value my 1600 too much to craft some unnecessary legendaries. He's ok in 1-2 decks you could potentially play, but not craftable IMO.

I think there is more usability for a legendary like Zola the Gorgon which grants somewhat simillar effect (actually maybe better since no restrictions) and will might see play at one point. 

So what did you actually replace for striders, saronite or scalebane?

The problem I see with faldorei strider compared to other 2 options is:

- your gameplan isn't attrition, most of your games will be solved by midgame, hence there is a big chance you will not draw into spiders

- Going into lategame and getting value out of faldorei means you are playing against a control deck, and late game 4/4 spider against a control deck usually doesen't mean much

- Faldorei is worse for most popular matchups than other 2 options - scalebane helps against priest and provides more aggresion than faldorei, while saronite is insane with keleseth + helps against aggro a lot, unlike faldorei.

I still think the card is wrong in this deck and that standard meta build is better. Faldorei is a miracle rogue card and it's good in that deck because miracle cycles pretty fast through the deck with cheap spells + auctioner. Outside I could justify it in a control rogue build, but in tempo hardly.

This is a classic tempo rogue deck from VS Meta report, but with a twist. This list exists since KFT (around 6 months in different variations). There is nothing new about this list which has not been known for months. People know how to play against this on high ranks, and it has been consistently countered with control warlock/cubelock, Razakus priest and aggro druid. 

I play this deck (-ooze & spellbreaker, tar creeper and faldorei, + 2x saronite chain gang, deckhand and scalebane), the winrate between ranks 5-legend is around 50%. The strongest counter to this deck, aggro druid, is not so played atm, but priest and warlock will take you down consistently. Against aggro paladin you are favored 60:40. 

@everybody - do not craft this deck if you expect 80% winrate. It is false or extremely low number of games on a streak. It is a tier 1 deck, but not dominating as OP says. 

If you do want to play the deck, the version from VS is better than this. Faldorei strider is too slow for this deck, and tar creeper and ooze are techs against paladin and warlock, although it makes the deck worse in general. You shouldnt play these cards in this deck.

@OP, i will downvote your deck because you are lying about the winrate.

Quote from Kuko >>

History has proven that communism is a bad idea. Learn to play the game and stop wishing that 'system' will provide any benefits to losers. 

In my experience, cubelock is easier to beat than classic control warlock since cubelock even if he cheats out a demon, it has a chance to be a doomguard, and doomguard is not so much of an issue if you played properly, since you still have the upper hand (he's closer to death than you). You still have some chance to beat him after he cheats out doomguard or cubes the doomguard. You are the beatdown in this matchup, so you shouldn't care that much about your health.

Controllock cheats out only voidlord, and that's probably the moment you lose the game. That's why you need to have silence in your hand, silence the lackey, and hope he wont have skull of manari in his hand as it would allow him to cheat out Voidlord earlier, again losing you the game.

Your gameplan in both matchups is aggresive early game, denying easy dark pact targets (after silencing lackey its correct to kill it, although a smart warlock player will drop lackey only in combo with dark pact if possible), and beating down your opponent before Voidlord, or in worst case after a silenced Voidlord.

You should bear in mind that this is your worst mathup in the whole meta, so it's not a big issue if you lose often against warlocks. I was negative against warlock in the end of the month, but I was positive against priest and most other decks in the meta, which in the end is what you go for. Every deck has a strong counter, and control warlock is that to tempo rogue (along with aggro druid which sees less play these days).

I've hit rank 3 with tempo rogue last season (I don't have much time to grind for legend in my life), so my advice would be: know your matchup. You can't have the same muligan strategy against everybody (tempo rogue is a very muligan dependent deck). Against aggro decks, you keep the clears and early game (ok to keep fire fly, pirates, backstap, SI:7 with coin, Keleseth). If you didn't pull enough early game, but you have shadowstep + Keleseth, I would probably muligan away the shadowstep in hope for more early game stuff. Against aggro decks, even if you shadowstep Keleseth, there is a big chance you will lose since 2 out of 3 cards you kept you spent 'for later advantage, and you will remain without enough stuff to deal with their early game. It's much better for tempo rogue to try to actively control the board in early game against aggro.

Against control, you keep anything that applies pressure (the idea is to destroy these decks before they get to their win condition, either it be raza anduin combo, Voidlord pull or UI), so obviously Keleseth with shadowstep is fine, pirates (but play around removal), edwin with coin. Against priest it's ok to keep Scalebane, and against warlock it's correct to keep silence if you run only 1 in your deck (I used 1). 

I think it's never correct to double shadowstep keleseth.

It's important when you think about the game to consider the gameplan of you and your opponent to be able to understand what is the correct play. Against aggro paladin it's most of the time correct to clear minions, against priest and warlock face is the place. That way you can get a better grip on your muligan and understand what to keep. You should konsider potential removals, early game plan of your opponent, and what's their win condition and at what point do they come to it in the game.

Against control warlock, if there's a lot of them, you tech in 2 spellbreakers for consistency, muligan for aggresive start and try to take them down by turn 9 (you silence the lackey).

I guess it's fine not to run Medivh's vallet in a budget version, but you should consider inserting additional burn.

If you are running Aluneth, chances are you will equip it in later part of the game when you want to finish your opponent after initial tempo play. That's why you need Ice Block, to keep you from dying when you need to draw your burn. My experience against tempo mages is that they usually empty their hand because of tempo, equip Aluneth and wait to draw enough damage over 1-2 turns. They use ice block so I can't kill them on time.

I would also consider removing ooze and adding a Pyroblast if you have one. 

Cheers!

If you have Aluneth, you should add an Ice block in the mix to keep you alive when searching for burn. 

Also, do you have Karazhan? I seriously doubt that this deck is competitive without Medivh's Valet and Firelands Portal. I wouldn't craft additional pieces for the deck without those two. 

Tempo mage is even in it's meta build a vulnerable deck since it gets rekt by aggro most of the time. Playing a budget version of it will essentialy weaken you even more against your bad matchups, while decrease effectiveness of good ones. 

Is deck viable without Netherspite Historian? Is ok to put e.g. Faerie Dragon instead, will this hurt it's winrate too much'

Or maybe some more expensive dragons instead?

The deck is maybe good in tournaments where you can ban stuff. On ladder, the deck is mediocre and below that. 

Quote from Firestorm30 >>

Quote from Mackie264 >>

It honestly depends on you current collection situation, for example, as everyone said, Controlock in general is very powerful, and it will for sure end up as a tier 1 deck but I feel like the cube variant may change a lot to the point where it even stops being a thing and people just play a more classic control type of list, for that reason I haven't crafted the cubes yet, they're the only cards I'm missing from that deck but I won't waste 800 dust on something that might not be as good as it is rn in a couple weeks + I've been rekting the ladder with my N'zoth Controlock so why would I try something else if my deck is just farming everything I find rn. As for absolute safe crafts on Legedaries and Epics here's my small list so far:

*LEGENDARIES: Honestly nothing, Rin is starting to go away from decks now, the Skull is only needed if you play Cubelock and that deck is still not 100% secure atm, people are starting to realize that Val'anyr is not the best option for Aggro paladin as it is too slow for the type of deck and I've started to see either another minion being played instead or just the old friend true silver champion, Aluneth is a very strong card on Tempo Mage but I tried the deck without it and it still a ridiculous deck and then no other Legedary is seeing actual play in any of the "good" decks, here aluneth is honestly the only semi-safe craft but I would wait still.

*EPICS:

-Void Lord: As said by many in this thread, Control Warlock would be a strong deck no matter what but the cube variant still needs further testing and refining, that being said Void Lord will be played in any Controlock variant so it's a really safe craft.

-Psychic Scream: It sees play in both Raza priest and Big Priest, both are tier 1 decks and will for sure be in the future, if you don't have it and plan on playing any of this decks then go for it, at least 1 is a safe craft, the other ne not so much so better wait.

-Corridor Creeper: probably thesafest craft in all the expansion, this card is just insane in any deck you put it, aggro, mid-range, tempo, and even control, maybe the only archetype it doesn't fit is combo decks as they need very specific cards to function properly. I've been playing this bad boy even on my N'zoth Controlock and it gave me so many games, a must craft for any hearthstone player.

- Spiteful Summoner: Seeing a lot of play rn and it looks like it's an incredibly powerful card, most classes have at least one powerful spell that is decent enough for this card to be worth it, I would say it's a safe craft but wait like a week or 2, semi-safe for now.

- Arcane Tyrant: It's safe if you're playing a deck with a lot of expensive spells so if for example Jade druid is your jam then you must have this card.

- Call to Arms: This is the whole reason Paladin is even being played, and it's also the reason aggressive paladin decks are so good atm, if you have all the other cards or you feel like crafting them, then this card is a must 2x for sure.

- Fal'dorei Strider: Miracle or Mill Rogue are not in such a good spot rn but if that's your jam then you absolutely need this card.

- Twilght Acolyte: It sees play in Dragon Highlander priest and in Satellite priest and overall it's a pretty strong card so again, if you have the rest of the cards for those decks then go for it, if not then there are a lot more important cards you need for those archetypes so focus on those first.

- Unstable Evolution: Shaman is not on a good spot rn but evolve shaman is still a decent deck, and every variation of this deck plays at least 1 Unstable Evolution so if you plan on playing that deck just craft 1 for now and wait to see if the second one is worth it. 

ALL THE OTHER EPICS NOT MENTIONED IN THIS LIST ARE EITHER NOT SOLID ENOUGH OR NEED FURTHER TESTING AS THEY ARE SEEN IN SOME POPULAR LISTS AND CUT FROM SOME OTHERS WITH NOT SUCH A HUGE VARIATION IN WIN RATES BUT MAY BE STAPPLES OR SAFE CRAFTS AS THE META FINISHES TO SETTLE DOWN.

 

 hey thank you so much for taking the time to list all of these- the only epic i am missing is the strider and i wont craft it cause i usually dont play rogue as i dont have many of the cards including the pirate package.

i will go ahead and try the control warlock as i have all the epics , dk guldan and n'zoth. was just missing legendaries from the new expansion. 

i have also decided to wait a little more before i craft an actual complete deck.

Quote from Frijamabob >>

new warlock deck is not awesome.. it just ruins the fun for all other decks just like highlander priest

Quote from Firestorm30 >>

Hey guys,

I am a relatively new player. Began playing after the frozen throne expansion came out. This is my first actual expansion release experience and i am not sure how long to wait to craft decks.

i have around 4k dust and also some legendaries like lorewalker cho, madam goya, anomalus and osruk(i havent dusted anything yet).

the new warlock decks are really awesome like the cube lock and rin control (i have all the cards apart from the kac legendaries for these decks)and i would like to craft them. just wanted to ask if i should wait some more time or is it safe to craft?