Hearthpwn

Quote from Toribasher >>

Quote from iLoveTriples >>

• Pirates: draw board clears in the first 3 turns or you're dead (that's always been a thing though)
• Curse/disrupt lock: serious risk of overdraw, dirty rat screws your frogs
• Quest mage: is usually faster than you + ice block is a nightmare
• Secret mage: too fast, anti-minion secrets make the deck unplayable
• Bomb rogue: faster than you
• Pillager rogue: faster than you
• Miracle rogue: draw freezes + devolve for edwin or you're dead
• Theotar: will steal a combo piece, it will take time to draw the second (if you play two)
• Even shaman: draw two devolves or you're dead

Maybe this is a better discussion than I thought.

Pirate Rogue -- I've been beating them on a regular basis.
Even Shaman - Beating them on a regular basis
Curse Warlock - I'm either undefeated against them or lost once.
Miracle Rogue - The matchup is tight.
Theotar - Can't steal 'combo piece" because I have something on board they must kill, like a frog or --- as funny as it seems I often have board around 5 mana.
The others: agree

When I face a Rogue, if they have 40 mana or play a Pirate on first turn, I'm ready to go.
Warlock -- love it!

Now apparently my deck is a little bit different:  I do not run Devolve, this is not a "minions meta" to me.  I run 1 schooling to fight for board without overload (also to pad my hand after possible Theotars).

Just my Elemental Shaman Quest Shaman Deck by Toribasher - Oct 25, 2022 View Deck String Export to BBCode Export to Cockatrice Export to MarkDown Export to Html Clone this deck
Minion (3) 1x Drek'Thar 2x Spirit of the Frog	Ability (27) 1x Command the Elements 1x Bioluminescence 2x Finders Keepers 2x Overdraft 1x Charged Call 1x Feral Spirit 1x Lava Shock 1x Lightning Storm 2x Voltaic Burst 2x Ancestral Knowledge 2x Beakered Lightning 1x Crackle 1x Crushing Hand 2x Lightning Bloom 2x Lightning Bolt 2x Scalding Geyser 1x Schooling 2x Zap!
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Honestly, until typing in my deck, I didn't know I had only 1 crackle but it works.

Don't get me wrong, all of those matchups are possible (the worst for me is no doubt even shaman though, they always seem to have a bunch of 5 health totems by turn 3 or 4), but they are still draw dependant specially on your end.

Another one that's pretty bad is honestly curse lock, their minions health (4 or 5) line up badly with my removals and their curses clog my hand so I can't utilize frogs properly. Watchposts are also somewhat annoying, if I don't have a lightning bolt immediately they become an issue.

A pirate rogue on a good draw when you can't hit aoe or card draw is still pretty bad, although it's not a disastrous matchup, two weapons in a row means taking 16-20 damage almost guaranteed (turn 3/4/5/6 and maybe 7), so the minions only need to deal 10-14 total; the 2/5 is gonna require two removals most of the times. Without the tempo from zap + beakered + overdraft it's hard to get a frog down.

Without a good aoe hit they have more minions than you have spells for...

Consider that I played over 200 games with this deck in many iterations, so I had many chances for things not to go my way. I have had good streaks of 9-10 wins, but I've also encountered 4 to 5 big priests in a row at times, that is another reason why I fitted the devolves, so that I compromise their ress pool, that makes things easier after turn 4-5.

I've played with schooling (I love that card) aswell, but it makes my hand too big and playing minions offers targets to decks like quest mage or miracle rogue that need minion targets for their spells.

If you have any kind of replay vs. even shaman or curse lock I'd gladly watch it, perhaps I'm doing something wrong that I haven't figured out yet.

I got legend with quest overload shaman twice this year, I think that it's quite bad in the current meta.

• Pirates: draw board clears in the first 3 turns or you're dead (that's always been a thing though)
• Curse/disrupt lock: serious risk of overdraw, dirty rat screws your frogs
• Quest mage: is usually faster than you + ice block is a nightmare
• Secret mage: too fast, anti-minion secrets make the deck unplayable
• Bomb rogue: faster than you
• Pillager rogue: faster than you
• Miracle rogue: draw freezes + devolve for edwin or you're dead
• Theotar: will steal a combo piece, it will take time to draw the second (if you play two)
• Even shaman: draw two devolves or you're dead

My version is made for consistency. I have experimented with Multicasters, Meat Wagons, Drek'Thar, but this works better. You might swap the neutrals for an extra copy of Bioluminescence to play around Theothar, but Sphere turn 1 is simply too good.

Finley is useful when your hand is full and high-costed at turn 4 or 5, so you can swap those cards for 0 mana spells (i.e. 2nd frog, storm, lava shock, etc.) and complete your quest by restarting the frog draw cycle.

This usually gets the quest done by turn 6 or 7, depending on draws, AND plays Bru'Khan in the same turn (Mutanus, Theotar, Rat). By turn 8 you can usually do 50-60 damage. Anything slower and you will die to big priest, which is a very large part of the meta.

Quote from Hearthsam >>

I'm really confused why people think theotar exists just for denathrius? Every deck has many key important cards that ruin them if stolen, and the fact that the best theotar steal is theotar himself speaks volumes about how broken it is. Yes denathrius is a really stupid card but let's not pretend theotar is bad in a theoretical word without him.

 This is 100% true, but for wild. For standard, no idea.

Quote from Nitroxygen >>

I predict:

theo to five mana

stag spirit minus one attack

bear spirit minus one health

harpoon gun minus one cost reduction

 

 Seems quite likely. Although... would there be alot of difference if Theotar costed 5 mana?

Looks like Jade Idol sort of made a comeback with Dew Process, even though it's more a mill deck than a jade deck.

As long as cards like this exist they will have to keep adding hand interaction cards like theotar and mutanus to justify that "you could have a counter".

Hearthstone was always supposed to be a minion combat based game, that's why miracle rogue, force of nature and savage roar, freeze mage etc. were nerfed into oblivion. It was never meant to be a hand interaction game and I remember Ben Brode stating clearly that it wasn't the direction they wanted to be going.

Now the developers have ran out of ideas so they moved in the disruption direction to keep selling packs. That and the massive power creep have ruined wild and made standard a one dimensional game of Denathrius.

Illuminate, Neptulon the Tidehunter, Wildheart Guff , Dew Process , Grey Sage Parrot , The Demon Seed , Objection! , are only a few examples of cards that have been thoughtlessly introduced in standard and ruined wild.

We all shall bow to our Blizzard overlords and play standard with a Denathrius and Theother in our decks. If we don't, then it's our own fault right?

Quote from b1ak1ce >>

no one is running objection or the exile card

 What? All secret mages in wild run Objection. That BS even works against eater of secrets, which makes the deck untechable for... as if it wasn't broken enough.

Quote from ScribbleMuse >>

Oh, that makes sense & definitely takes away the annoyance. 

Thanks - I don't mind helping in that. :)

 Do you play on NA or EU? If EU, please feel free to add me.

I don't need a punching bag for quests, simply don't mind having nice people in my friend list for a challenge a friend quest.

If you want some help with ranked wild, I might provide some assistance (usually legend when I can), even though my time is limited, with a 9-18 job, a girlfriend, two dogs, and my own ranking to do.

Looks like a way to address paladin's card draw problems (in general) without giving them direct card draw. I can't say that I see alot of paladin decks in wild legend, maybe with this the class will be played more. The Lorekeeper Pokelt effect is very strong for many decks.

You can play homebrew decks if they counter a specific target audience.

I have made control decks that are favorable both vs fast aggro AND priest at the same time, but they lose 100% to midrange decks (like hunter and secret mage) and combo decks. These decks usually get me to legend a little after the decently skilled netdecking players get there.

Remember that Theotar gives the opponent 3 choices, not your full hand. Keeping a hand of 8-9 cards decreases the chance that Theotar hits. In example, I used to play Schooling in many of my shaman decks simply for Theotar reason (the card isn't that bad anyways).

However, considering that Mutanus is also a card, playing a deck that relies one 1 specific card that is played after turn 7, as only win condition, is a very bad idea.

I'd be happy even with just Gift of Luminance and copy effects not spawning additional hands.

Let's not forget that a pre-existing Neptulon will attack with all hands on the board, including the ones from a Neptulon that has just been summoned/copied.

Copy a neptulon or resurrect it: spawn 4-5 hands x 2 attacks = 32-40 damage from any sized neptulon that survived on a board. That's totally stupid.

Quote from stutt3rfly >>

Guys what’s the best 2 decks In wild?im thinking about switching…standard is getting really boring

 

 There's no best, it's really rock paper scissor tbh. Unless turn 3 Neptulon, that usually beats everything.

Quote from Sulan >>

There are some really good decks out there: Even Shaman, Pirate Rogue, Quest Mage, Reno Priest, Big Priest, Beast Hunter, Curse Warlock.

I'll add pillager Rogue, Quest frog Shaman, Quest Shudderwock Shaman, OTK priest, Celestial Druid, togwaggle Druid, enrage handbuff Warrior, aggro shadow Priest, quest shard Priest, disruption Warlock, giant windfury Warlock, renathal pirate Warrior, seed Hunter, quest Hunter, relic DH, are some other decks that can be successful on the ladder.

All can be susceptible to their counters obviously, and some are better than others, but it's fun to see these decks. I never lost an OTK shaman mirror (my build is the best and I'm the best at it :P ), but I admit I don't see alot of them.

Quote from Raan_Dohm_Schitt >>

Quote from iLoveTriples >>

 

I can not go back to standard, honestly. It would feel too limiting, and boring. Even though wild is more collection-dependant, the matchups are alot more polarized, and the games can be very highrolly, it still feels like the most engaging format to me.

 to be honest wild is indeed more expensive as you start playing. but once you get to a few completed decks, it actually gets cheaper than standard because you would definitely use less cards from each expansion as they come up.

granted you would have to craft other old cards that synergize well now, but it still gets cheaper as time goes by

I admit I never felt the issue that strongly, considering that I play from release, I still have my first original Loatheb, Mountain Giants since the days of the very first handlock. Sometimes I play arena burning free tickets, sometimes I buy packs with gold, sometimes with money. 

But for a new player, it could be indeed quite expensive to get into wild. Yet it also seems that the standard legendaries are a must have to be competitive, since the pool is so small, the deck gets alot weaker when you replace a card with a placeholder. In wild, there are more rares and commons to choose from that will fit, which is why Reno decks are so much stronger in wild I think.

I was looking to complete some quests last evening, as I already hit legend in wild I went on and tried to see what decks I could come up in standard... it felt so weird to have such a limited card pool, and possible strategies to build, that I went back to wild and made an infinite Azsharan Sentinel rogue to do my quests. Right after that, I made a Quest-Jade-Elemental-Murloc shaman for a different quest.

Granted both decks performed poorly in ranked, they still managed to get a few wins and were a good change of pace (I rank up with quest otk shaman or control warlock).

I can not go back to standard, honestly. It would feel too limiting, and boring. Even though wild is more collection-dependant, the matchups are alot more polarized, and the games can be very highrolly, it still feels like the most engaging format to me.

My updated frog otk shaman. If I hit legend again with it ot not will only depend on the amount of big priests Blizz sends at me.