Hearthpwn

The staleness from netdecking is killing this game. Netdecking is fine for the ladder but we need new game modes... And casual is almost useless as most people there are testing/learning their new netdecks.

Some options would be like;

- a large draft (MTG / Eternal) where each player opens a significant amount of packs (10+?) and play a month-long tournament (like in Eternal). this render netdecking useless and force brewing a kind of constructed deck (so way beyond the Arena "draft" randomness)

- Make a weekly dreckbrewing challenge with a simple rule... no epic and legendary (week A), no spell (week B) for example, etc. The reward could be to get a special card back by laddering the weekly brew competition. If there is a way to reduce the data gathering then the competition could last longer but otherwise, a week seems fair for brewing before the staleness kicks in

-  etc.

I used to be an avid player for over 3 years. First as F2P and then I spent about 100 euros / year. I have now switched to Eternal and enjoy it very much (twice Master/Legend level in 4 months). Plenty of events, plenty of updates, many rewards, insightful game mechanics, etc.

To get me back to Hearthstone which I still think is a great game, one would need:

1) Somewhat find a system (new competencies?) which makes the defending player (like Eternal or MTG)  to have the ability to interact with the offensive action of the active player. Something much more consistent and interactive than secret (too random) or taunt (too passive). This makes the inactive player having fun during the opponent turn as (s)he has something to do. This also makes it harder to snowball as the opponent can disrupt the active player game plan.

2) Make it harder to get value from netdecking which is a core issue of Hearthstone stale meta... such as larger deck game format, more frequent nerf/buff, etc.

3) Like in Eternal, monthly draft event (competition)

4) (Also like in Eternal), monthly competition events with gameplay conditions (no legendary card, no spell, etc... )... Something way beyond the tavern brawl craziness.

5) Make a real difference between the casual format and the ladder. Currently casual is like ladder without real reward....

6) Tournament mode! (Like the Chinese already have in Hearthstone for over a year!)

7) The return of the adventure expansion

8) Without having the generosity of Direwolf's Eternal, Blizzard could find a way to give away more... (which is cheaper than trying to get back leaving players)


My two cents.

One of the worst Brawl week and I had to experience 3 times already since 2014. We all deserve a better Hearthstone birthday party!!!

The problem is not high-skills players at level 15-20.... the problem is that new players (or players coming back after a year break) have naturally poor (or poorer) card collection. As you rightly said... top tier netdecks are fairly autopilot for most of them... so the barrier  at lower level is not the player skill level (unfortunately) but mostly the collection level. The new Blizzard ladder system - which I like as I start close to rank 5 - does not address this.

New or returning player probably feel that - unless they pay - they will hardly be able to compete versus well tested net decks they can not afford. If a returning player did not play in 2017 and would like to re-start now... it will have a tough time to net deck as even an aggro dude pally cost about 4800 dusts, about 6500 for a Murloc pally, 6000 for secret hunter, about 4000 for secret mage or spiteful priest !!! In 2015, a top tiers aggro deck was around 1500 dusts.... the inflation is out of control at the moment.

I also agree that people will not become super creative with a "weight-based" system and will most likely keep on net decking. You are right there. However, netdecking will be more adapted to their collection ability (of newish or returning players). I do not see the reasons why all weighty meta(s) would be automatically stale and why is this is not anyway a more desirable outcome than one unique meta (stale or not) which is dominated by netdecking. It will be just a multiplication of netdecked meta but more adapted to collection access to new and returning players. 

One possible solution would be to do like in combat sport...

Instead of having only one category of deck (super heavy category) due to net-decking, a possible option will be to set "weight" categories. For example deck worth less than 500 dusts, decks from 500 to 1000 dusts, deck worth 1001 to 2000, etc.

Ideally there might be 5 categories for example.... I do not know which could be a good split as I have a large collection and am playing HS since the end of Beta.

The system will automatically find a player having a same deck category than yours while laddering (plus the usual star system). So, this system is seamless to the player. There is nothing special to do. No option to click or not. It would be just an indication by the system stating in which category your deck is.

This way, you could reach legend in the super-light category or mid-category or the super-heavy category for exemple.

It is not a perfect system. Obviously there will be more aggro on lower category and more control on higher categories (although creative people will be able to create controlish deck with less than 500 dust). Also this might split a bit the ladder. However in combat sport, it is not a big issues... yes heavy-weight are generally less moving and stronger than light-weight and that heavy-weight is more popular then super-light (due to the power level) but then it allows everyone to compete and not only the 100 kgs+ muscle fighters... which is the situation where HS ladder is now... the only difference being some fight better than others but they all look very similar (4000+ dust).

However, this will generally put the net-decking into the last category (as decks are becoming really expensive nowadays) while creative deck could be seen in lower to mid categories. It will create several meta (one by category) and thus the player experience would be more various too as many "worthless" card will be useful again.

The charge mechanics is fine on its own... The issue is the abuse of the charge mechanics. Blizzard itself have already said they are unconfortable with some aspect of charge. 

Since the beta, the nerf hammer has hit"Unleash the Hounds", Leeroy, Patches, Arcane Golem,  Force of Nature, Call of the wild, "Charge" (warrior spell), and of course Warsong commander... So this 8 out 48 nerfs (since patch 1.0.0.5314, the first one after the Beta). 

This means that ~17% of nerfed cards had charge! 
(=> 1 card every 6 nerfed had charge!)

To those, one could add cards which were also nerfed which had a distinct abuse of the charge mechanics such as "The cavern from below" (nice to get several "5/5 charge" for 1 mana on turn 5), etc.

So the solution to include the "charge" mechanic as part of battlecries (and not outside like for doomguard) would solve most of the issues generated by "charge" and its abuses.

The charge mechanics is fine on its own (if it could exist in a vaccum)... I tend to see this as a burn spell on legs! :) Indeed, taunting is a way to "deal" with charge and some people use it - as a tech option - at the moment againt cubelock.

The issue is the abuse of the charge mechanics. Blizzard itself have already said they are unconfortable with some aspect of charge. 

In a nutshell, charge is not an issue, the abuse of it, is... When you look at the history of nerfing, there is a disproportionate representation of charge cards compare to their number in the hearthstone collection... It surely shows that there is an abuse issue to say the least.

Since the beta we had "Unleash the Hounds", Leeroy, Patches, Arcane Golem,  Force of Nature, Call of the wild, "Charge" (warrior spell), and of course Warsong commander... So this 8 out 48 (since patch 1.0.0.5314, the first one after the Beta).

This means that ~17% of nerfed cards had charge! 
(=> 1 card every 6 nerfed had charge!)

To those, one could add cards which were also nerfed which had a distinct abuse of the charge mechanics such as "The cavern from below" (nice to get several "5/5 charge" for 1 mana on turn 5), etc.

Hi!

I have seen now and then, people mentioning "Battlecry : Gain charge".

It will be - imho - a great way to deal with the ever problematic "charge" mechanic. 

Charge is very powerful and quite un-interactive already so there should be a way to reduce its influence especially when use by other game mechanics such as "Recruit", "Discover", "Copy", "Summon a … ", etc...
Also it limits the design space as there is so many ways to abuse it even when team 5 tries to restrict it (look at Doomguard, Devilsaur, etc.). I am sure Blizzard is not printing some cards because the “charge” implication is too strong or too difficult to assess.

In general, even if it looks slightly more complex (yet a lot of less than the text of some cards in the basic set), it would solve so many problematic cards in one go... Just write "Battlecry : gain charge" instead of “Charge”

Why do you think Blizzard is not doing so? What is their rational?
Is there another way to deal with the charge mechanic?

:)

PS:  Please, this thread aims to understand the "charge" problematic and offer positive feedbacks. To say that Blizzard is stupid or whatever is not constructive.

Quote from Trollbert >>

I was wondering if Doomguard is nearing HOF status.  Would explain why there was no nerfs to the Cubelock package.  Personally thought the Voidlord always gave me more trouble but the VL isn't so much the problem as the immediately cubing/saccing the cube is.  

In the coming announcement for the next cards to go to the Hall of Fame, if they include doomguard, then cubelock is not so much of a problem. The same logic goes with Nourish if being famed, the infestation will be de facto slightly nerfed too.

So the nerfing logic of Blizzard needs to be understood with the coming Hall of Fame announcement.

Jade Idol is already countered with the Geist so there is no need to nerf it any further.

Call to arms is still an issue though, I agree.

PS: Also agree that Creeper did not need to be so hammered. Although not perfect, Raza, Patches and Bonemare are fine nerfs to me.