Hearthpwn

Sorry for bragging and bringing back the old thread: just wanna share with you I finally managed to hit 10k today!

If there are people (like I was) who're struggling with BGs and need some specific advice, I'll be happy to answer your questions - plus, thanks to y'all again for posting your great tips!

All this negativity - just disgusting, if you don’t care, why bother commenting? His job is not your business and you aren’t career counsellors.

@WittyNamesHS I’ll definitely take a look at your videos, as I’m trying to push past 9k. Do you mind telling me what’s your current mmr is?

Quote from usoded >>

I'm reading Kantian Ethics By Allen W. Wood. A comprehensive, clear and understandable account of Kantian moral philosophy.

 Why would you read Kant xD

P.S. No offense, genuinely interested, I’m a Philosophy PhD

Lol, am I officially 0.01%?  xD

I recently created a thread as I was stuck myself, might be of some help for you too, there're some good tips: https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/battlegrounds/242739-advice-to-get-better-at-bg-lowkey-desperate?page=2#c25

Ok, guys, thank y'all for your really helpful advice and your willingness to help, I really appreciate that!

So, I'd like to share some good news with you: in these two weeks, I managed to reach 8000! (screenshot attached). What is more, my last 5 warbands (places) are: 2, 2, 3, 1, 3 (it never happened before, I'd always have at least one crappy place among good ones)

Again, the tips you gave me were tremendously helpful (especially @freakin3, s/he pinpointed my mistakes and made me reconsider my playstyle), and these two weeks of quite intensive practice (I'd play for 2-3 hours a day) taught me a lot (I genuinely feel I've improved), so I'll share my own ideas, hope they'll be of any help to you.

First - in hindsight, I can clearly see what I was doing wrong. Besides suboptimal micro-decisions, making which will never be perfect, I was making two huge mistakes: wrong levelling and playing "in a vaccuum" (not paying attention to what others were doing). That's why my first suggestion is to try to identify the meta. I understood that before I started falling, the meta had been quite greedy: levelling, levelling, levelling no matter what. So I'd naturally do the same thing and fail, because the new meta was more tempo-oriented. This leads to the next point: check what your opponents are doing. Has your opponent just levelled up? Perhaps it'd be safe to do the same  (unless you're fishing for triples). Has your opponent been getting triples? Well, it might be a signal for you not to rush levelling up (again, unless you have no clear direction). Tier 4 is the best (especially if you're not aiming high), so I'd oftentimes stay there for a couple of turns (if my warband is already okay).

My another huge mistake was keeping/ditching triples - this is something I still seem to fail to strike a balance between. Before, rarely would I look for triples - mostly because I'd often end up with a bunch of doubles, which usually cost me huge tempo. I feel this is a very complex and nuanced aspect of the game, and takes professional intuition (for lack of a better term), but try to evaluate your chances of getting triples. Also: think what you're going to get. Sometimes it's better to lose some tempo (and, consequently, lose a match), freeze the third minion you need, level up next turn and buy it (to get a better minion of a higher tier), instead of buying it the same turn and keeping refreshing. 

The next point worth mentioning: know which heroes you are good playing at (and enjoy playing). Ideally, you should be able to play any hero, but for 7500-8000 I found this is not a must. Obviously, some heroes are better than others, but you can still win with any (if you utilize his/her HP properly). Say, I really like playing A.F.Kay, and I'd almost always get among top 4 with her. However, I'd never pick Millhouse (unless he's the only decent hero), cause I find him a bit too highrolly, and would often fail to scale, despite a perfect start of the game.

The same goes for Alexstrasza: she just doesn't seem to work for me, even though I had a couple of 1st places with her (and this is backed up with some statistical evidence: according to HSreplay, she is the most polarizing hero, as she'd often end up either 1st or last). Also, make sure you learn to play mediocre heroes, and figure out their strengths, weaknesses, and most optimal playstyle.  For example, I used to think Bazh'ial is a ramping hero, but now I feel she's more efficient as a tempo hero (use coins to out-tempo your opponents). I found Queen Wagtoggle to be surprisingly good, I'd just try to go menagerie with her. Reno is also ok, but I didn't have much luck with him (never 1st or 2nd): I usually don't play greedy and would often make golden not a perfect minion (Brann, Baron), but just a decent one. 

Another small thing that helped me is asking myself a question "Can I improve my board?" after each roll. Sure, you might be looking for triples, but there are numerous games in which I would ditch a potential triple for the sake of a stronger board. Acquiring not "the whole run", but "one fight" mentality also helps a lot. Last but not least: rarely would your direction crystallize before you level up to Tier 4 (and in most cases even T5).

Ultimately, as others suggested, RNG (and luck) are a huge factor, so never underestimate it. There are some fights in which everything  seems to be just wrong: and this is ok,  just accept it - later you'll compensate for your losses with wins. Watching streamers on Twitch lose made me realize it's not only about skill, but, to a huge extent, about luck. Ironically, streamers would get 1st places with warbands, with which you'd get 5th - that happens. There were days, on which my BG results were Adele's "rolling in the deep" (5-7, even with good warbands), and there were days on which I felt extra high-rolly. Both will happen, both are a part of the game.

Just play, learn from your mistakes, don't give up and you'll eventually get where you want (and need) to be.

Best of luck to y'all! 

Quote from Zukuu >>

1. Value consistency of top 4 over getting 1st. Biggest factor that makes you fail and get bottom 2. E.g. trying to force Murlocs which utterly fall apart in mid-game, so unless you get an early Brann or a vast amount of buffs you will absolutely fail.
2. To remedy that, you can simply "go for stats" until tier 5 and don't bother with a board that translates well into end-game. You can build an endgame board when you reach endgame rather quickly.
3. Beast/Murloc/Dragon Managerie is one of the best things you can do for that, since you can pick up any buff you come along and even a few hits from the tri-buffer can ensure you reach top 4. Just pick up one of each and you can easily sway into either tribe along the way, depending on what you get. I like to include Mech or Demon here as fourth pillar, although Demon usually only temporarily consists of a few 3/3 Taunt with a +2/+2 buff or two.
4. Always adapt to what you are offered. This one is obvious, but you can't really enforce any strategy. If you get an early juggler and have 2 demons, get some more and you get to late-game. If get two early 3/1 beasts, get some deathrattles to buff them to carry you along. etc
5. LUCK is a huge, huge factor. There is only so much you can do with skill. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. If you get offered shit and get no triple offered, you can't do anything about it. Skill only really impacts the overarching "the long run".

 Hey, thank your very much, some solid advice here!

I definitely do all of those things, and yeah, if I can, I go for Menagerie build. And yup, points 4 and 5 are the most crucial ones - I guess what I really suck at is spotting the best picks. I don't remember who said that, but what really matters in battlegrounds is being able to make a nice lemon cake from lemons you're offered. Rn the best I can do is salty lemon juice xD

Quote from DearCustomer >>

Hey, I also play at your same elo so its not like i am better, but still I'd like to write my thoughts.

I am sure you do have a good understanding of the game, however basing on your arguments, I think you might be (just a little bit) stuck in some patterns of... things you consider good, both in terms of builds and heroes.

Yes bad luck can happen, losing streaks happen to everyone. But if you get frustrated, this is also going to have an impact on your decision making (and afterall we play the game for the fun of it so take it easy :D)

For example, you have 2 hyenas and you are rolling, looking for beasts. And let's say you are frustrated because last 5 games were really unlucky. Now maybe even if Bob is offering you a B plan, you are not able to see it because you are blindly looking for beasts. Now this is a bit exaggerated but you get the point.

For me, it helped playing with only 2 heroes to choose from. Probably i do win less on average, because i dont get the t1 all the time. But i improved on making the best out of bad heroes. Actually the most fun games I had, started from bad heroes/bad builds and somehow you make it work. And by the way Alexstrasza, Pyramad... are pretty good heroes!

As you said you see streamers win with bad builds. Maybe it wasnt that bad for their position in the game. Could it be that you are overestimating the value of synergies in the mid game, and wasting time looking for it? Mid game is just supposed to be a bridge to your final strategy (assuming you can afford it, not everytime you can play for the first place).

Hopefully you can find something useful from this, otherwise please forgive me :D

 Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

With that hyenas situation: people with consistent builds were crushing me the games before (I had been playing some sort of menagerie), so I just thought I need to focus on the consistency of my build from the early game. After that, I wasn't actually offered any good options (I picked the most decent ones, and if there was a way to transition, I definitely would, two hyenas is not that much of a commitment). I ended up ditching them both, but my build was just mediocre (not even decent), because I never happened to see two good in terms of their synergy minions coming together (say, two divine shields or sth). 

With those 2 heroes: that was good, right? I also noticed I would actually win with heroes considered to be bad (I got 1st place twice with Bazh'ial). The problem, however, is that those heroes are too inconsistent and you have a way higher chance to fall behind when faced with stronger heroes. Pyramad is good, I agree (I just got really shitty picks, and, again, I don't want to be playing him all the time), Alexstrasza... hm... I guess I just haven't been lucky with her (I never seem to get good dragons from her discover), so she's usually a NO for me. 

Good point on midgame! That's exactly what I think: just pick the best options, the strategy will crystallize. I was successfully playing like this before, but now the problem is I'm not offered anything good at all xD and right, I never play for the first place, unless I'm confident about my build (but that would be like 5% of games at best). So I just hope I've been having really bad luck - by the way, by accident saw Nicholena's stream with results: she's been having some hard time too. 

Quote from Xivir >>

I play around the 6500-7000 range. One overall problem I've noticed with games is the consistency of builds is getting thinner. As in once dragons were added to the game, the pool of cards gets larger and each turn you're less likely to find the perfect cards for your build. If more tribes get added then this constancy problem will only go up.

With this in mind I don't really try to go a specific build anymore. Sometimes I get lucky and get a strong murloc strategy early, but most games that won't continue to the end. In the end most games I play I simply focus on the highest value minions I can buy and end up with menagerie builds. Then I always focus on stats. Beefing up minions or getting a Baron to double deathrattle effects giving more stats.

 Thanks for your reply! My strategy is very much similar - I just feel it doesn't really work against those who get lucky to end up with a more or less consistent build (and recently I've been seeing a lot of such).  

Quote from freakin3 >>

Different mmrs have different strategies.   As I ranked up, I'm at around 10.5k mmr, you are less prone to being able to get away with mistakes, and people are more likely to be countering what you are doing.

I'd say if I could boil the strategy down to it's most base level, it's knowing when to level, and when not to.   While I often level on turn 2, not leveling there needs to be in your pocket, though it's often contingent on what hero you are using and what you are seeing minion wise.   It's understanding when you can get away with immediately leveling to tier 4 after leveling to turn 3 the turn before, as you usually want to triple to get a tier 5 minion, but sometimes forcing it will kill you.  Again, understanding when you have a spot to tier up, and how it will benefit you in the long run(and quite frankly understanding what other people are doing, and why they are beating you, sometimes not doing certain things ensures you are way behind everyone else).

I guess you have to know all the options, what's possible, how you can pivot, how easy it can be to pivot to certain builds if you are offered the right things.  The thing is you will never play every game the same way, it's really just understanding how to make the most of what's offered.   The better you are at making those key decisions on the fly the more consistently you will rank up.

And by the by, I think Pyramad is super solid.  

Thank you very much for your reply. First of, congrats on reaching such a high MMR, that's impressive!

What concerns levelling up: I definitely take into consideration which hero I'm playing  (I almost never level up when I'm playing Rafaam on T2). What about T3-4-further, I'd usually go after what others are doing, since I'm afraid to be deprived of good minions on the respective tavern tiers. And this is usually what happens now: I don't seem to get key minions, but only buffs and supports instead (I tend to buy them, since otherwise I'd definitely be lagging behind, and therefore end up at the bottom). 

I, indeed, feel that I lack the intuition (lobby reading skills?) needed to know when to level up, which minions to buy, when to look for triples (honestly, after the dragons were introduced, I rarely look for triples and keep duplicates, since I figured out I was so much focused on getting triples that I would lose; abandoning this strategy actually led to better results).

So, bearing those key decisions in mind, would you have any advice on how to get better at decision making? Streamers I watch almost never comment why they make this or that decision (though in most cases I feel I'd do more or less the same). Personally, I watch Kripp, Bebe, Savjz, sometimes Firebat. 

Hey y'all,

Sorry in advance for a bit of a long-read and desperate ranting, but I really hope you'd somehow help me figure the problem out.

A bit of background: before the patch, my MMR was 7300+, I was happily climbing to 7500. Yes, I obviously did lose, but mostly because the offered heroes were crappy or I'd make a suboptimal play or a mistake I was later on aware of. Yet, since I was tracking my performance, I can say that I won around 70% of times (by winning I mean getting placed 1-4). I'm not saying I'm a good player (I'd say above average), but I know my BG theory pretty well. 

However, after the patch things have drastically changed. Out of 20+ games I only once was the second and once - fourth :') All the remaining times I'd end up 5-8, most often - 7-8th. As a result: I lost 500 mmr points (so I'm at 6800 now), and it gets worse with every game. Maybe the meta has changed (though I don't really think it's the case, since the addition of one minion and three new heroes doesn't seem to be such a deciding factor), but I honestly feel I was cursed by RNGesus. Everything (yes, literally, everything) is WRONG.

The selection of heroes. I am able to pick from 4 heroes (saved up gold for that). Before the patch I would most often be offered at least two very good or decent heroes (e.g. Rafaam, Yogg, A.F.Kay, Edwin, etc.). Now I am offered B- tier heroes at best (e.g. Alexstrasza, Akazamzarak, Pyramad, etc.). I was offered Yogg once, but the selection of minions was so bad (I'm gonna elaborate on that later), that I lost. Btw that was the first time I lost playing Yogg (:

Matching. First turns, I seem to get matched against the worst possible (for me, obviously) heroes. Manastorm, Yogg, Rafaam - I get so much damage during the early game that it gets almost impossible to stabilize later. What is more, on turn 3, when A.F.Kay was in the lobby, I'd get matched against her 100% of times (I'd definitely think I'm exaggerating if I were you, but, unfortunately, that's how it went for me).

Trades. The trades, too, are just detrimental. Sometimes it's even painful to watch how badly my minions trade. And yes, I'm perfectly aware of positioning and stuff. It just feels like my minions are making the worst possible trades, while the opponent's board remains almost intact. Even in matchups in which I clearly have a advantage, the trades are so bad that the outcome of the match is either a tie or my win with the least amount of damage possible. 

Minions. This one is the most painful. Before, I'd easily spot the best picks and would therefore build a more or less decent board. Yes, at times I'd get offered crap and would lose because of that, but that was more of an exception. Now, I am offered minions with no synergies at all. Starting with T1, I was offered a decent 1-drop pick only a couple of times. But I was offered Mecharoo or a 2/1 Divine shield minion almost in every game. The same goes for next turns: I was playing Kael'thas and was happy to start with cats and then I was offered two hyenas at T5. I sold one cat and bought both of them (the second was obv +2/+2). And then, as the game went, I wasn't offered a single decent beast, besides cats (for whom I didn't have any space on the board, because it was filled with mediocre minions, and the cats were even worse). My board was just a bunch of random stuff and then I lost.

If I decide to go mechs/divine shield (obv having some minions for them), I don't get a Mech with Divine shield or a guy that gets buffed when minions lose the divine shield. Another example: I was playing Pyramad and went demons, nobody was playing demons except me, but I wasn't able to find a second Soul Juggler despite staying at T3. And then I was matched against Edwin who already got a golden (!) Riverdane, isn't it ironic? Ultimately, I was playing Alexstrasza, was the first to tier up to T5, got two mediocre dragons, next turn rolled looking for more decent dragons, found nothing and was matched against A.F.Kay who had two Razorgors, despite the fact she tiered up a turn later :') I kinda feel that good minions are simply deleted for me and if I decide to take one direction, the game would offer me the complete opposite

Honestly, after each game I feel so devastated I want to cry. I really like playing BG, but this is just too much. Funny thing is, I do watch streamers, and their boards are in most cases mediocre yet they seem to win because their opponents aren't that far ahead. After the patch, it really feels I'm the scapegoat of the lobby. Sorry if it sounds as if I'm overreacting, but this is just the way it feels. I'm not paranoid of something (I don't think BGs are rigged), but at the same time I can't believe RNG can be so BAD. 

I don't deny the possibility that maybe I'm not as good as I think, thus I'm asking you for advice: what are the ways I could improve my plays? What helped you become a better player?

Also: Is RNG really such a deciding factor in Battlegrounds? Have you noticed something similar (losing despite doing your best)?

I'd definitely appreciate any kind of input and sorry again for being a bit of a crybaby. 

Wishing y'all good games.

> Galakrond

> underwhelming

now that’s an original perspective.

While a half of this forum is complaining how making cards cost 0 is busted, you are annoyed at G being not good enough

Quote from TheMightyYogg >>

Hey Ben, Dean Ayala here. How about you stop commenting on forums and get back to work? Don’t make me remind you again WHO is the senior game designer now. Oh, by the way, you promised me to help with card balancing for the future expansion, didn’t you? I feel like “deal 15 damage to 15 random targets and summon 7 C’thuns” is a little bit too random. Maybe decreasing damage to 10 will do the trick? 

 Hey Dean, it’s C’Thun. Don’t make me remind you WHO is the Old God. How about you stop replying to pityful mortals’ comments and make it “deal 30 damage”? Twice, please.

Quote from Marega >>

It doesn't account to mmr. Ive reached low plat and i got 9x stars. Same as previous month where I reached rank 12 of old system and still got the 9x star multiplier

 Well, in this case it proves the opposite: it DOES depend on your mmr. Otherwise you’d have gotten a lower multiplier.