Hearthpwn

Quote from gomulo >>

This is literally definition of a salt comment lol

 It seems you really don't know what "salt" means...

Also Rogue stomps it flat.

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Is Fleshshaper going to make the cut still? It's much harder to get it out early now. And against slower decks (that don't flood the board with minions), you may not get it out at all. Worth it?

 Very probably not.  The more I think about it this nerf is rough against everything but decks that flood the board.  It's more than just "getting" it out a little later as trades happen constantly.  This card was super easy to get out on 3-4 regularly.  Now at those same points it'll be 5-6 mana instead of 3-4 and if any trades happen, as they very regularly do, then it makes it even harder to develop a board state for it.  Making the idea that you just need a "few more turns" potentially wrong most of the time. 

Quote from Joker_2k19 >>

Quote from lartza >>

Yeah shaman still looks really good, mogu+mutate can replace to tech against rogue and hunter and other nerfs i dont belive that would be that big impact. Faceless looks also still good car two 4/4 rush minions is still good hearthstone card.

 Yeah man for sure, Faceless Corruptor will still be a very solid minion. -1 Attack is hardly nothing.

 It's -2 attack effectively. 

At any rate, I don't think there is anything wrong with it being "strong".  Strong if fine. Broken isn't.  As it was I didn't feel like it was broken, somewhere in between that and strong.  

lol people wanted shaman put in the ground.  I think the issue here is unreal expectations.

Quote from TheEvilAce >>

Quote from kaio9819998 >>

The Corrupt Elementalist still really good and now it's a good target to Evolve too. The 7 mana pool is good.

 There is no more Evolve in Standard. You mean Mutate?

 splitting hairs a bit~

Also he didn't specify standard.

Quote from user-13725786 >>

Quote from Tibainium >>

Faceless Corruptor nerf is not as big as I expected, its still going to be insanely good

 Yes, but don't underestimate 2 extra dmg. It does matter. Druid has Crystal Stag which has a reasonably low requirement on it and does not require a sacrifice of any other minions and it sees almost no play. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree it's still a good card and will be run in decks with tokens! It just won't be constructed busted levels good anymore. Just as an example one common power-play was killing a Shield of Galakrond, can't do that and leave a 5/4 anymore. 1-dmg does matter in a lot of situations.

 This this this.  1 less attack makes a pretty big difference.  It can no longer cleanly trade into what is likely the most commonly played taunt card right now is pretty big.  

Anything with five health will  now require both hits which is a pretty big damn deal.  Here is a list of other stuff with 5 health that are seeing some amount of play that that this card can no longer cleanly trade with forcing the attack with both copies and in some cases is essentially a 2 for 1.

Cobalt Spellkin,

Crazed Netherwing

Rotten Applebaum

Necrium Apothecary

Dragonbane

Chenvaala

Skybarge

Waxadred

Anubisath Defender

Big Ol' Whelp

Cumulo-Maximus

Chronobreaker

Bandersmosh

and obviously anything with more than five health.

Quote from FortyDust >>

Did not touch the wolves? Amazing.

I do like the Battlegrounds changes!

 The amalgam change is interesting!  Although it makes curator that much stronger.   Kinda of a shame, I enjoyed the menagerie strat, but that is super dead in the water now.  No Bran, No amalgam means it won't be much good anymore.  Also Murlocs are are hurt by this as well.  Specifically the bran change hurts them the most.  

Quote from JarlBallin >>

Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?

Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.

Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.

Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into a 10-drop for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about you nerfing Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?! 

Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.

 

And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.

 

 Small changes like these can have big effects.  I'll wait to see how things end up before I complain one way or the other.  I think they could be good enough.  Sludge Slurper was an issue.  At a 2/1 he traded up and often you wanted to remove him before playing anything into him.  Sure he is as easily removed as he was before, but now I can just as easily completely ignore him in favor of removing him later.  

Corrupt Elementalist I think is a decent nerf.  At 5 mana he had an easy time removing many 4 cost minions from the invoke.  If curve is as important as everyone makes it out to be then this is a solid nerf.

Mogu flesh Shaper I need to wait and see.  10 cost mutates is scary.  I am not sure if it's a nerf at all.  He is slower and will obviously come out a bit later than normal making him less useful for an early trades into a powerful mutate.  I do think there are specific situation where this change does hurt and that is against any deck that play very few creatures, like reno mage.  This guy will be annoyingly costly in those situations.  So less useful against decks that don't flood.  Better against decks that do.  

Personally I think it's likely to be good enough.  Shudder is good but isn't what normally beats me.  It's their ability to clear my board while continually flooding their own.  Delaying all that by a a turn or two is pretty big in my eyes.

Quote from hillandder >>

Quote from ButtSeriously >>

Who playtested shaman ? I foresee heads rolling.

 Probably no one or someone who hate his job and want to be fired.

 Or it's just as likely they had internal number, pushed it out anyways to get some live numbers to better make decision on the matter.

Quote from Ace1a >>

Quote from user-100041474 >>

OP seemingly missed that invoke triggers Galakrond's hero power, regardless of wether that player already is Galakrond.

So that means every invoke card:

...Gives your hero +3 Attack as Warrior

...Gives you a random Lackey as Rogue

...Gives you a  random priest minion as priest

...Summons a 2/1 Rush Elemental as Shaman

...Summons two 1/1 Imps as Warlock

You were correct after all, this makes invoke much closer to vanilla. It turns out that Galakrond shaman is totally busted with 60% play and winrates and Blizz is doing an emergency nerf. I don't blame Blizz for underestimating Shaman's power level, even I was wrong! I do thank them for doing the right thing with such a quick nerf. One thing I was right about is the quest conflicts with Galakrond, why run the quest only to overwrite it with a 2/1 rush HP? Many Shamans have cut the quest, but some still run it. Regardless, there's an excellent chance the quest gets nerfed anyway since it's also OP.

That said, I expect 3 or 4 of it's cards to be hit. I also expect 2 or 3 neutral cards to be hit, faceless corruptor being the obvious choice. I think Blizz will nerf a pirate as well because PW is broken in both formats

Corrupt Elementalist to become 6 mana

Faceless Corruptor also gets bumped to 6 mana

Dragon's Pack either gains 2 overload or buff reduced to 2/2

Corrupt the Waters  play 8 battlecry cards

I also expect one of the new pirates to get a hit as well as some other neutral or class card. In total, around 6 cards should get nerfed and we may find out as early as tomorrow!

 They don't clash that much at all.  In fact they synergize far better than clash.  I'll tell you why you get rid of the quest Hero Power for Galakrond.  To close out the game with 4 8/8s and to make your Shudder produce more 8/8s itself.  Also if you are low on cards in general then you change to Galakrond so you can continuously put 2/1s on the board.  One of the best things about Galakrond is that you can just hold till you need it.  Otherwise if you don't need it don't play it.

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from asteroidm >>

Quote from DasWampir >>

The main reason Shaman's winrate has been dropping is because the players NOT playing Shaman are actively trying to counter it. 

 

 This.  There are a number of things I am seeing far more of as of late.  Small clears, and silence (likely to screw over tempo rogue).  That being said even if this is the only reason for it dropping, that in and of itself is good argument for a nerf.  When a deck is so strong you have to tech against it specifically or just accept a 80% loss rate against it then maybe it's too strong.

Then again if it CAN be countered then maybe a nerf is unnecessary.  It could go either way.

 I mean, that's the whole point of waiting for the meta to settle. One deck is strong, people build counters to it, it becomes less strong, people stop playing it as much because they stop winning as much.

 Yeah I do think the nerfs are a bit too soon.  Though it seems like the HS team is eager to do whatever to get people playing again.  I may be dead wrong on this but the general buzz around HS seems marketdly lower this year in general.

But I digress.  I agree, point is either could be true but we don't know which way to lean yet cause the meta hasn't really settled.

Quote from DasWampir >>

The main reason Shaman's winrate has been dropping is because the players NOT playing Shaman are actively trying to counter it. 

 

 This.  There are a number of things I am seeing far more of as of late.  Small clears, and silence (likely to screw over tempo rogue).  That being said even if this is the only reason for it dropping, that in and of itself is good argument for a nerf.  When a deck is so strong you have to tech against it specifically or just accept a 80% loss rate against it then maybe it's too strong.

Then again if it CAN be countered then maybe a nerf is unnecessary.  It could go either way.

Quote from fourtysavage47 >>

Hi, i play rogue mainly and suddenly the cards sap and backstab are lost.

Am i the only one or does anyone else got this problem?

 As of last night they are still in my card library but I haven't checked yet today.

I am having a good time myself.  Don't get me wrong Shaman is real good right now, I can't deny that but I don't feel any deck is so damn oppressive that I am not having fun.  To my mind nothing has been as bad as Undertaker Hunter back in the day.  Big priest felt more disgusting to play against even.  

Just me though.  

Oh and I have been playing tempo type warrior deck with that looks to control the board in zoo like way then burst after the galakrond turn with chargers.  Been playing an aggresive mid range hero power hunter.  A tempo rogue, tree druid and swarm lock.  I won't deny I lose to shaman about 60% of the time and I play a lot of shamans but I never feel it's unwinable.

I do get annoyed a bit with shamans but not because the deck is too OP (though it is OP just not criminally so) but because I loathe net decking personally.  One of my favorite things growing up was playing MTG at different comic book shops which all had their own little metas.  Experimentation was encouraged and fun.  Not so much with HS unfortunately.  That being said I am still seeing some experimentation so I enjoy playing at the start of a new xpac.

 

Quote from jinstronda >>

Quote from GHOSTDUSTER >>

I wish this were true unfortunately its not. Without terrible draws its one of the best standard decks I’ve seen. It can flood the board with huge minions at least 8 times and will be chipping your heal the whole time. It still retains its burst potential too. Even worse than the 8/8s sometimes is the 5/5 weapon they can get twice for basically fee. If you have a deck code that is proven to do well against it I’d love to know what it is because I’ve tried just about all of them now and haven't found anything consistently beats it.

 Did you try trump tempo rogue?

 

 

 

 I think the problem you are having here is your overstatement of the situation.  I would agree that tempo rogue is probably a bit better.  But that fact doesn't mean Shaman isn't that strong.  Shaman is still VERY strong.  But maybe not as good as Tempo Rogue.  

That being said just because 2/1's are easy to kill doesn't mean much.  When the 2/1s are being produced if you are using a card to clear my summoned minions I won't cry about it.  

I will say that tempo rogue feels good against Galakrond quest shaman for the simple fact that tempo rogue's minions hit awkward break points.  5 and 7 health respectively making trades not terribly clean for the 2/1s.  Additionally the rush mechanic is punshied badly against a board that benefits so heavily from death rattle.

But against almost every other deck Galakrond shaman is handling quite well on average.  That doesn't make it a bad deck if it has one bad match up.  

Lastly you simply can not point to the freshness of a meta as a counter point to other people's arguments without simultaneously undermining your own argument.   We can only deal in what information we have and unfortunately current information shows that Galakrond/Quest shaman is quite strong.

Lastly, tech in some silence mechanics and Tempo Rogue suffers badly.  That is what I did and the deck is MUUUCH easier to manage.