Everything I'd say has pretty much been said already but this was an unwanted hassle. At least I already had a Twitch account to merge so I could make it in here to see what was going on.
Defile will totally defile the meta for the next 6 months and then they will nerf it and make it unplayable when it switches to wild...
The next rotation hits Gadgetzhan and Old Gods next year around April in 2018. Defile and KFT won't rotate until around April the year after that in 2019.
I would agree with everyone saying that Defile is a card that takes skill to make good and I think we need more cards like that. It is like the position matters cards they used to print, except this time it is avoiding the 1,2,3,etc. health pattern. That Leeroy Defile combo looked amazing but there were probably other ways that could have been done, too.
Have someone made a whole new deck with the rogue quest with Bone Baron? Think it could be actually good, but I don't have the quest so...
I kept the quest after the nerf because it was the only Rogue Legendary I have ever gotten from packs, any other's I've had to craft. At some point I may try some stuff out but I don't have high hopes for a standalone quest deck. I had some hope Blizzard was going to support a late game Quest Rogue when I first saw Bone Baron but when I saw the rest of the cards and saw that Grim Necromancer summoned the tokens to the board instead of your hand I knew it wasn't happening this expansion because to be better than the Flame Elemental package you'd need at least two pairs of token generators putting them into your hand.
Because it is not friendly class for new players. Miracle rogue for example needs 1 million dust and some skill to play.
I think the Rogue class is mostly for Johnny's, people who like experimenting with things and winning in unusual ways. However, I don't feel super excited about Miracle as an archetype because it hasn't changed much at all and isn't anything new really. That and the popular lists nearly always have 5-6+ legendary minions in it. While I have crafted most of them by now, it still carries a certain stigma for me for that reason.
The rogue numbers are traditionally low because the class usually has decks that do require a lot of skill to play well. That usually doesn't translate well to overall winrate percentages.
People complained about quest rogue (rightly so imo), but even that deck required skill to pilot 100% efficiently, I don't think anyone can deny that.
That being said, it does seem underrepresented on ladder so far, like hunter and mage, at least in my experience. Trump is doing well with his miracle rogue so far, so let's hope it's not be a dead class this expansion.
I certainly agree with you on the skill aspect as I saw people complaining about how Quest Rogue took no skill all the time despite the statistical evidence that showed that the higher your rank was the better your winrate became, a classic sign of a higher skill ceiling. It wasn't until two to three months later just before the nerf that the win rate at the lower ranks approached what skilled players were doing at legend. I, too, hope Rogue isn't a dead class this expansion, but if Miracle is the only success we have as a class I think that will be terrible.
It's a super strong class with the miracle variety and the jade version is in need of optimization. That said, miracle is the only competitive archetype rogue has atm and it's stale. Blizzard has failed to provide rogue an exciting new deck to play.
^ So much this, though Rogue archetypes typically seem to take time to gel, so there is still time. I was hoping for some support from Blizzard for a late game Quest Rogue but Bone Baron by itself doesn't cut it. Seeing Grim Necromancer was such a huge letdown when I realized it summoned those tokens directly to the board instead of to your hand.
But if blizzard doesn't want to give rogue healing or taunt based cards then why would you give rogue a control oriented card? Also weapon removal tech is a thing
Corpsetaker may be the card Rogue needs and deserves in this regard for healing and taunts but time will tell.
What counters greed? Board pressure. A good midrange list or Jade Druid should all work. I'll drop an honorable mention here for pre-nerf Crystal Rogue as it would also have been a good choice were it not for the nerf.
I found it kind of funny that a thread worrying about greedy decks was at one point on the same page as a Jade Druid decklist that was getting massive downvotes for only including Ultimate Infestation as a new card, despite the fact the author had good first day success with it.
Have you been 'countered' by Skulking Geist yet? I think a lot of people freaked out over that card, perhaps myself included, but really who is going to have it right now except for someone who just got it from packs? Who wants to craft that when there are so many more cool things to do with your dust? List looks cool, though I'd need 6000 dust to even try it, lol.
These are the kind of lists I like to see - one or two legendary minions and a good selection of rares and commons. I have Lich King from packs but I'm tempted to craft DK Guldan to try this list out.
When I saw the thread title I was trying to envision how Benedictus copied your Death Knight cards but I do see now what you meant that it has synergy with those two in particular. As far as duplicating Death Knight cards goes, you would need Dead Man's Hand or Valeera the Hollow, which is what I originally thought you were referring to.
On the other hand, rogue already have a LOTS of way to deal with the board early game SI:7 AgentEviscerateBackstab.. , what we lacked was simply clear board LATE game, and that's what we can do now.
What you had was a way to deal with early single creatures. At turn 4 or 5 when they flood the board is when rogue got screwed.
Vilespine SlayerShadow Strike ? Also with our tools to clear early game board, we should be the one who have board control on turn 4 at least,because we have way to clear their board while putting our cards into play.
What we hard hard time dealing with were late game board of creature with +5 life if we alreayd had used our vilespine, now we have the tools to deal with them ( adios, board of 10/10+ jade golem the turn after i play valeera )
Destroying them could be quite powerful, but returning all those 10/10+ Jade Golems back into their hand with Vanish the turn after you play Valeera so that you can grab board control with a bunch of Arcane Giants could also be interesting because each one of their 10/10+ Jades costs 10 mana as their cost ramps with their stats up until 10.
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Everything I'd say has pretty much been said already but this was an unwanted hassle. At least I already had a Twitch account to merge so I could make it in here to see what was going on.
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What counters greed? Board pressure. A good midrange list or Jade Druid should all work. I'll drop an honorable mention here for pre-nerf Crystal Rogue as it would also have been a good choice were it not for the nerf.
I found it kind of funny that a thread worrying about greedy decks was at one point on the same page as a Jade Druid decklist that was getting massive downvotes for only including Ultimate Infestation as a new card, despite the fact the author had good first day success with it.
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Have you been 'countered' by Skulking Geist yet? I think a lot of people freaked out over that card, perhaps myself included, but really who is going to have it right now except for someone who just got it from packs? Who wants to craft that when there are so many more cool things to do with your dust? List looks cool, though I'd need 6000 dust to even try it, lol.
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These are the kind of lists I like to see - one or two legendary minions and a good selection of rares and commons. I have Lich King from packs but I'm tempted to craft DK Guldan to try this list out.
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Opened The Lich King in my second pack. Got Professor Putricide, Arfus, and Moorabi from the others. Got Thrall, Deathseer from the Prologue. Was hoping for Valeera the Hollow and more Rogue stuff tbh, but I did get the Death Knight card neutral legendary minions so I guess I can't complain too much.
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The Lich King second pack! Also eventually opened Arfus. Was pretty amazing, though I was hoping to open Valeera the Hollow tbh.
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When I saw the thread title I was trying to envision how Benedictus copied your Death Knight cards but I do see now what you meant that it has synergy with those two in particular. As far as duplicating Death Knight cards goes, you would need Dead Man's Hand or Valeera the Hollow, which is what I originally thought you were referring to.
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Perhaps, but it is still a good value play and in some games Valeera the Hollow might be in the bottom of your deck.
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Onyxia is a good late game punch for Crystal Rogue, but the trick is still getting to late game though. Decent with The Curator perhaps.