Hearthpwn

I played with a cheap aggro token shaman. just hope for no blizzard and it should win before frostmourne turn

Hey Guys,

To me, Prince Taldaram seems the most interesting and unique of the princes, so I was wondering if you’ve found any use for him.

My initial thoughts were to use him in Control Pally to copy lightlord, tirion, etc., but any other suggestions would be appreciated and hopefully would lead to a fruitful discussion.

This comparison is very flawed.

You can't equate priest cards to cards of other classes because of the differences between the classes' ideology and their existing cards. This is like saying, "What if every other class had Polymorph?? That would be OP!! NERF!!!" or, "What if druid and shaman had Tirion Fordring?? That would break those classes!!"

No. Just, no. If you're gonna cry about losing to Razakus Priest, please do so in the Salt thread. And please use stats or examples to support your claim instead of just illogical statements. If you really think Razakus Priest is a problem, turn this thread into a creative discussion where players can contribute their knowledge/experience of how to beat the deck.

I'll start (2-for-1, including the one in my signature):

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from VenoChron >>

 um...no.

if you're definition of OTK is as strict as that, then you miss some of the most prominent OTK decks of the past. 28 damage is considered OTK range because 95% of the time that's enough to kill your opponent

 That is the definition of a One Turn Kill, a kill in one turn. For that to happen it needs to be something that kills your opponent from full health. In Hearthstone, a OTK needs to deal 30 damage minimum because that is the Health of the Heroes in this game. In Yugioh, for example, OTKs were required to deal 8000 damage minimum, because that was the health each player started with.

There is no "Close Enough" for the definition, either it can deal 30 or it can't. If it can deal 30 or more, it's an OTK, if not, it's just a really high damaging combo, but not an OTK.

If it was as you think it should be, then ANY damage would be enough, there was no set amount required. Even 1 Damage can be an OTK because your opponent might be at 1 HP when you start your turn. OTKs are based on the starting health of the players, not in the health they have at turn X of the game.

Quote from Seagull0 >>

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Quote from Seagull0 >>

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference.  For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually. 

 That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...

 That has no bearing on whether or not it's competitive.  

 Yes it does, because you only have 1 month every season to hit top 100 legend to get points, and if you do it too slowly, you won't be able to even be competitive.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from iandakar >>

 I stand corrected then.

 Correct in what? 28 Damage is not OTK, 30+ Damage is OTK. It is as simple as that. I don't know what you are saying now.

Mulligan guide will be coming shortly :)

The basic premise is to keep Far Sight, Curator, and Hex (depending on match-up) against control - but you're match-up against control is splendid anyway.

Against aggro, basically mull hard for AOE and feral spirit. healing wave is also a good pick-up. You're not gonna wanna combo out against aggro; you're game plan is to out-value them by 1-for-1'ing their cards and eventually just beat them down with a mid- to large-size minion.

I'll write a more detailed description once I have some more time. 

Thanks for your interest

I play and have played against Malygos Shaman in Wild, and I can confirm that it is fun from both sides of the match up. I don't have a problem with OTK decks as long as they go off turn 10+ and it's not Freeze Mage. Freeze mage is annoying (it doesn't mean it needs a nerf...just a personal opinion)

thanks :)

thanks man! it looks weird at first, but i've been experiencing success with it as well!

Glad this deck is working for you!

I've experimented a ton with this deck, and doomsayers severely weaken Healing Wave, which is why i don't run them. They're also very mediocre past turn 4-5 (since we don't run any freeze effects). against fast aggro decks (pirates, aggro druid, etc.), our gameplan revolves around using our damage spells as removal and eventually outvalueing them.

As for lava burst, I've also played versions with it and it weakens your ability to combo off more than you may think. 3 mana is significantly more difficult to chain with the spells in the deck than 2 mana spells. I'd say including Bloodmage Thalnos is more effective. one copy shouldn't nerf your healing waves too much, and it's even a source of card draw if you so choose. It should work fine in place of Maelstrom Portal if you aren't facing too many aggro decks.

Quote from Draco_Cracona >>

Quote from VenoChron >>

Quote from InfiniteJexulus >>

Quote from VenoChron >>

Quote from IDBY >>

I disagree with is Rexxar being dead. I would move it up to has potential at least. The DK solves one of the problems with Hunter, card draw. Depending on what hunter gets in the next two expansions he may even get better.

The rouge DK could also move down to has potential. Without giants and the pirates there are to many questions and relies on the next two expansions to keep it relevant.

 This was my impression as well. Rexxar isn't very replaceable because card draw is invaluable in Hunter, especially when all of those cards are custom minions.

 This isn't true card draw since you're not drawing something directly from your deck.  I'm of the opinion that's still very much necessary as a backbone for something like Build-a-Beast or any value-generating tool to be supported by.  With the ubiquity of something like Stonehill Defender in Paladin fetching very strong cards, does this give Control Paladin a chance to work in Standard?  No, because it's only generating a specific type of card; the scope of its usefulness is very limited without proper card draw to help find what you need to interact with your opponent.

It is for this reason Shaman sucks right now (besides Token); Shaman has only received 5 cards with the word "draw" on it, ever.  Two are Murloc-exclusive, one of them is Far Sight (meant for displacing mana cost and is not meant for consistent draw or card advantage), one of them is Ancestral Knowledge (no longer in Standard), and the last is Mana Tide Totem (which doesn't draw cards until the end of your turn, and only one at a time, and also provides no board presence and can be killed with almost no consequence for your opponent).  Doesn't matter what kind of value generation you have if it's not supported by true card draw.

 Well, that's a fair point to make about most classes OTHER than hunter. Aggro and Midrange hunters don't need, necessarily, to dig deeper into their deck for "answers" to the board. They're almost always the aggressor, in which case constant beast generation (while it isn't, as you pointed out, true card draw), is a powerful mechanic which Hunters can take advantage of to play even bigger and more minions.

 You also need to factor in that the DK HP is abysmal tempo. HUGE value, but abysmal tempo most of the time. IMO, it fits best into a control shell, giving you more answers, particularly in Wild; most of the time you will get a poison or taunt option as pick 2, for example, and the OP combinations are truly OP. The tempo is tripe, though, because whilst the minions are well statted for their costs, there's a 2 mana surcharge for the HP. That control shell doesn't really exist yet, particularly in STD, but if the right stuff gets printed, the DK will be core.

Quote from InfiniteJexulus >>

Quote from VenoChron >>

Quote from IDBY >>

I disagree with is Rexxar being dead. I would move it up to has potential at least. The DK solves one of the problems with Hunter, card draw. Depending on what hunter gets in the next two expansions he may even get better.

The rouge DK could also move down to has potential. Without giants and the pirates there are to many questions and relies on the next two expansions to keep it relevant.

 This was my impression as well. Rexxar isn't very replaceable because card draw is invaluable in Hunter, especially when all of those cards are custom minions.

 This isn't true card draw since you're not drawing something directly from your deck.  I'm of the opinion that's still very much necessary as a backbone for something like Build-a-Beast or any value-generating tool to be supported by.  With the ubiquity of something like Stonehill Defender in Paladin fetching very strong cards, does this give Control Paladin a chance to work in Standard?  No, because it's only generating a specific type of card; the scope of its usefulness is very limited without proper card draw to help find what you need to interact with your opponent.

It is for this reason Shaman sucks right now (besides Token); Shaman has only received 5 cards with the word "draw" on it, ever.  Two are Murloc-exclusive, one of them is Far Sight (meant for displacing mana cost and is not meant for consistent draw or card advantage), one of them is Ancestral Knowledge (no longer in Standard), and the last is Mana Tide Totem (which doesn't draw cards until the end of your turn, and only one at a time, and also provides no board presence and can be killed with almost no consequence for your opponent).  Doesn't matter what kind of value generation you have if it's not supported by true card draw.

Interesting deck. My only suggestion would be to add Brann Bronzebeard instead of a Tree of Life and The Curator instead of a second drake. from my experience, two copies of tree is usually overkill, and the curator can pull 3 things in this deck. Technically this mills you, but you should still be able to win fatigue.