Hearthpwn

Quote from Balckovic >>

Quote from Carlaena >>

Quote from Dekion1980 >>

Quote from Carlaena >>

I just want to see more cards that are actually worth their mana.

The reason Shredder is so popular is not because it's OP, its simply because most 4 mana cards are just not worth 4 mana. It's the same with Belcher and Loatheb. Everbody plays them because most 5 mana cards simply are not worth 5 mana.

They need to create more cards that are worth the mana cost printed on them, to encourage more diversity.

 What kind of messed up reverse logic is that?

The majority of cards define the relative value, not the minority of OP ones (which I don't consider OP anyway).

 A whole bunch of cards that aren't used have no effect on anything. What matters is cards that people do play.

 Still doesn't add up. Let's take Chillwind Yeti it's the basic 4 drop. Every other card has to be related to it, for example Sen'jin Shieldmasta. It loses 1 attack and gains taunt.

Now we have Shredder. Are all other 4 drops now "not worth" 4 mana anymore? Nope, it's the other way around: Shredder is too powerful for it's cost. The majority counts after all. Or do you want to buff every other 4 mana card to meet Shredders standards? Or even better, the whole set, because then the 5 mana drops would be bad? In the example of Yeti, let's say it gets+1/+1. Now Pit Fighter is just an overcosted Chillwind Yeti, so you adjust it. Then Boulderfist Ogre needs better stats as well and so on.

You get the point.

All I want is more situational transform cards like Druid of the Fang V-07-TR-0N.

If they make like 7 of them, at least 2 will be good.

The options aren't just:

1. Powerful decks that never change due to being based on Classic cards
2. Powerful decks based on BAM card that completely rotate out with the big card.

Hearthstone could focus more on 'BAM" cards that adjust an existing deck heavily. Then that "Built Around Me" card could be rotated with  a new one. Like going from Midrange Secret Paladin in 2016, Midrange Divine Shield Paladin in '17, and Midranged Dude Paladin in '18.

The issue is Blizzard rarely gets the power level right of the cards.

Quote from iandakar >>

While the power level of such cards is an issue, the general concept is pretty normal actually for card games.

The trick is this: A good deck is not meant to be 'fair'.  

Fair are cards like Chillwind Yeti.  It's a good card, average stats, and just goes on the board and goes.  It's a fair card.  The thing is, Average never works anywhere.  You don't play average characters in a game.  You play classes with something 'special' like a high strength warrior or a mage with spells.  

Card decks need unfair mechanics to 'work'.  A yeti is fair.  A turn 1 yeti due to Innervate is Unfair.  Emperor is Unfair.  Mechwarper is unfair.  Turn 4 8/8s are unfair.  1000 armor is unfair.  Unfair is a basic function of how a deck operates.  

And yes, it's a rough thing to make expansions with 'build around me' cards, but that's the burden they must hold as it's how a card game functions.  They give us the cards and we design the decks that turn those unfair mechanics into powerful decks.  THe nice thing is that you don't always have to realize exactly what can be done with the card.  I doubt they were specifically thinking about handlock when they designed the giants.  The bad thing is that..well.. you then get cases such as Undertaker.

(sidenote: Undertaker HIMSELF wasn't the broken part.  Undertaker Priest is considered, by the community and blizzard, an awesome deck that was unfair but not broken or weak.  The problem was that Undertaker, in Hunter, was too broken)

 Now as far as the rotation, new decks getting rotated out and, thus, ruining the decks attached to them isn't a 'bad'. It's the entire POINT to rotations.  They are specifically making rotations BECAUSE it'll make old decks worthless after a time.  Not only that, but they are purposely changing the CLassic set to hunt down and destroy the few decks that can keep alive through rotations via their 'Build around" cards being in Classic.  

WHY is it not a bad thing?  Because we've been playing Freeze mage and Combo Druid for well over 2 years now and do not wish to play that same deck for another 2 years.  Old decks get boring after a time.  They stop innovating as they become refined and become not powerful enough to be deemed broken and in need of a nerf but powerful enough to hold the top places.  The result is that new 'build around' cards MUST be more powerful just to compete with the old guard.  This is Power Creep and, while it is an option some games have taken, Hearthstone is taking the alternative treatment: having both.

The old cards and decks to into Wild so that they can live on there.  Meanwhile, for those who either are sick of those decks or don't have the cards, there's standard which will host the new funky new styles and decks.  It's also a solution that has worked for other games.  It also means that the new cards don't need to keep being more powerful just to compete and can take other avenues instead.  

 

So basically, what you describe is to card games what Combos are to fighting games.  It's part of what makes a card battle game work.  

If you look at LOE (Reno Jackson, Brann Bronzebeard, Sir Finley Mrrgglton, Anyfin Can Happen)

or TGT cards (Mysterious Challenger, Justicar Trueheart, Dreadsteed)

or BRM (Grim Patron, Dragons)

Or the exiting cards (Mechwarper, Undertaker, Echo/Duplicate)

It seem that new decks in Hearthstone rely on Blizzard making very powerful cards with situations that the player has to build the whole deck around it. Therefore Blizzard has to spit out tons of "Build around me" cards and hope only a few end up broken or too weak. There is good and bad. Good how it creates a lot of new decks with funky new styles and adds more decks to the meta. Bad how those new decks and most of the cards attached to them get rotated out or become weak/useless when the enabler rotates out.

What is your thoughts on this? Do you agree? Do you like this trend?

Here is the issue. You cannot just nerf Druid cards.  Blizzard must do something they never did: Design a goal or goals for druid decks.

If Druid is supposed to be a ramp class that dropped big minionss too early: Nerf the combo and KotG

If Druid is supposed to be a ramp class that could play swarms the buff them: Nerf only Force of Nature [/card] and [card]Ancient of Lore.

If Druid is allowed to run big minions, swarms of small ones, or beasts:  Nerf only Force of Nature and Ancient of Lore. Make Savage Roar affect beasts and heroes only.

I voted 2 & 2.

But I want 3 expansions and 1 adventure. Expansion card can be crafted. And with 40 packs, you get most of the most of the commons and 1-2 legendaries. 

MTG with its 2 block model is doing 850+ nonland cards a year. That's with 2 small expansions and 2 small ones. They used to do 2 big, 4 small, and a Core split in 2 years.

The biggest issue with Hearthstone is the lack of cards. Since the 9 classes can't be combined, you really cannot get more than 3 top tier decks of each class in the meta and most classes struggle to have ONE high tier meta deck. 

2 expansions 1 adventure helps the most people. If you look at the type of players...

New Players willing to buy a few backs: GREAT. They only need the newest sets and Classic to get 2-3 good decks at the start and 5-6 later.

F2P casual new player: GOOD as long as they are content with the cheapest decks.

Hardcore F2P new player: AVERAGE to BAD. But what do you expect? You can grind and build half of the good decks for no money.

F2P new player who wants specific decks in Standard without daily grind: HORRIBLE. Well of course Blizzard will not make your life easy.

Old player who doesn't want to pay anymore: GOOD You should have a few working decks and just need to update a few of them.

Old player who buys each adventure and buys packs: GREAT. You have many decks and can update them to the optimum quality.

Quote from ohWollocks >>

Quote from Trikzen >>

I could see a Taunt face minion or two in classes that don't break game rules *coughMAGEcough* Like one or two of them Warrior or Paladin or Druid.

Also based on Decks Assemble, I think they are pondering more cards that add other cards to your deck and not your hand.

 Decks assemble is one of favorite tavern brawls.  I played one game as hunter where I drafted a tracking and whenever I played it, it put another copy into my deck letting me play it 4 times in one turn!  This had the effect of discarding ALL the chickens and spare parts in my deck leaving only a few quality minions when I final discarded the tracking.

Adding cards to you deck is a mechanic that I think is really cool but blizzard needs to be careful about making fatigue deck too strong.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from Kefilkefish >>

Quote from TheWamts >>

Why would it be too much? Are you looking to collect everything or just play the game? Collecting everything's never been feasible for a F2P, and you only need 1 good deck to play the game.

 This. Never understood the argument making it easier for F2Ps or that its too hard to catch up.

A F2P face hunter is maybe some 2k dust today if adventure cards were craftable. The face hunter of 2017 may differ a bit so you'll require 500 dust to upgrade ut. 500. Competitive F2P now to competitive F2P 2017, 500 dust. Add any cheap deck and it's another maybe 500 to 1000. In a year. And if you have the go to neutrals like Leper Gnome, Knife Juggler etc. and a couple of other commons, blues and epics you will without even playing much be able to play 1 or more archetypes of 3 or more classes no problem.

To be competitive you do not need a golden Control Warrior every season. Most decks are relatively cheap.

 I love this game because it allow me to play any kind of decks as f2p. I grinded almost 2 years, but now i have everything i need. If i were forced to play face hunter only to be competitive i would've quit the game already. You are delusional if you think people are ok with playing only one deck indefinitely, because after a while it's boring.

I could see a Taunt face minion or two in classes that don't break game rules *coughMAGEcough* Like one or two of them Warrior or Paladin or Druid.

Also based on Decks Assemble, I think they are pondering more cards that add other cards to your deck and not your hand.

Quote from UnderaShiva >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from Trikzen >>

Personally, I think Blizzard should do 2 expansions and 2 adventures a year.

 Nope, 3 releases per year is more than enough thank you.

 Adventures are not the problem. You can buy them easily for small money or gold. 2 expansion will be a huge turnoff for many players.

Personally, I think Blizzard should do 2 expansions and 2 adventures a year.

More is better.  Here's why. More cards equals a higher chance or a new single expansion + contained deck working and appearing.  Think Mech Mage, Oil Rogue, Patron Warrior. Decks that mostly only use one expansion and Basic/Classic.

Imagine a meta like this

• 1 core deck for each class
• 2 face decks (there are always 2 face decks running around)
• The Naxx decks (Deathrattle Hunter, Egg Druid)
• The GVG decks (Mech Mage, Oil Rogue)
• The BRM decks (Patron Warrior, Dragon Priest)
• The TGT decks (Secret Paladin)
• The LOE decks (Murloc Paladin, Renolock)
• The Spring 16 decks
• The Next adventure's decks
• The fall 16 decks
• Zoo

Ever rotation you lose 6-7 decks and get 6-7 decks. If you're casual you can build a Core deck like Midrange Hunter or Control Warrior and swap in the new cards and/or create the new deck with packs of the new expansions.