Rewards track system still sucks
- TigOldBiddy
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Melubas posted a message on Hearthstone, power creep, and rock-paper-scissors game designPosted in: General DiscussionI've been thinking about this for a long time now and decided to write something about it. It is basically my view of the game as it stands today, with the highs and the lows and why I think hearthstone should not be called a competitive game, but a fun one to pass the time with. Feel free to agree or disagree and point out where I'm looking at it from the wrong angle :)
As Hearthstone has aged and we've gotten access to more and more powerful cards, the game has become less about managing resources and more about three things: broken turns, RNG, and resource generation. I'll go over them all below and why I think it makes for a less fun game. I want to start out with a disclaimer that this will not be an "I lost to this", or an "I hate this type of deck"-post, I just want to share my thoughts. I got legend with what some might call the degenerate ramp paladin deck last month. It was my third time reaching legend. I've also played tickatus lock, rez priest and lots of home-brewed or "meme"-decks.
Broken turns: We all know the feeling, right? You pull off something so insane that you just instawin, and you get that nice kick of dopamine that starts out in your head and nestles its way down to your tummy. But is it really fun in the long run, or good game design to stray from the path of fighting for resources to "I drew this so I win unless you're playing this class and this card". The new ramp paladin is a good example. I can think of one class that can beat a turn four/five tip the scales and that's warrior, if he draws brawl. The chance for the warrior to draw brawl is about the same as it is for the paladin to get a tip the scales out at turn five. What do the other classes do? Nothing, they lose.
The problem is prevalent in a lesser scale when you have decks that hard counter other archetypes. Tickatus into Y'shaarj versus a slow deck, most of the time you can't come back from it and there was nothing you could do about it other than play another deck. Rez priest throwing a grave runes on a convincing infiltrator versus a big deck. Mozaki mage is similar even though it's not doing as well on ladder. Sometimes they just draw the combo by turn 8 or something and you die. No counterplay. Yogg is another example: sometimes it does something so powerful you just win the game on the spot. The games have become less about resource management and more about having turns so powerful they win you the game. The problem is that while this might be fun for the player piloting the deck, it is less so for the player facing it.But, you say, some decks should beat others. That's just the nature of rock-paper-scissors game design. Yes it is! But compared to MTG for example Hearthstone has no way to interact with your opponents win condition. In MTG you can counter their spells, use instants to disrupt chain of events, and make them discard cards from their hand. For a rock-paper-scissors game design to work well it has to feel like you could still have done something. Decks that rely on uninteractive win conditions like OTK, bomb warrior and to a lesser extent tickatus lock feels like shit to play against because you can't prevent them from playing the cards that screw you over. There is no targeted disruption in Hearthstone.
RNG and resource generation: Playing around stuff used to be a thing, right? Would you still say you do that? Maybe. I do sometimes, but an equal amount of the time I get screwed over by a card I could not have guessed my opponent would have. A druid with Murozond, a mage with five frostbolts in a row, the list goes on. Resource generation has removed a big layer of strategy from the game. Rogue and Mage are good examples of this. They don't draw cards from their deck as much as they create random cards. And random cards are unpredictable to a fault.
Now let's talk about RNG. Remember when that Reno hero power mashed out a Plague of Death at just the right moment? Or when it assassinated your own big minion just as you were going for the win? Remember when you played Yogg and it pyroblasted yourself in the face three times, making you lose? These are not outcomes you were in control over. They were completely luck-based, not just in the cards they generated but in what they targeted. RNG is a big part of the game now, and people (including myself) think it can be fun. But it is not competitive, at least not with the huge swings it can generate. I actually think discover is the lesser evil here compared to random targeting, random discard and the likes. It removes strategy, favouring "youtube moments" or whatever you want to call it.
And this is why midrange is mostly dead apart from arguably pure paladin sometimes. But that deck is both a midrange deck and a control deck all in one. Swing turns are simply too powerful for a deck to rely on curving out nicely and applying steady pressure. You either go balls out aggro or you go ramp, control or OTK. And sometimes you queue into a counter-deck and lose. I'd argue this is why netdecking is so prevalent, since the good decks just do such powerful stuff that playing anything else is a no-go.
Now I fully realise that the nature of card games is that they will be like this sometimes. Aggro can dump on you just as hard as an otk deck. But for a deck to be considered "good" in this game it should sport a win-rate somewhere around 52-55 %. It wins basically half the time. If you're good that percentage goes up to maybe 60%, or 70-80% if you're playing a broken deck.
With all that said, I still enjoy the game. It's fun most of the time, I like trying new stuff and seeing what works and what doesn't. I'm just disappointed at the direction the game has taken since the start. I had more fun playing curvestone than I do playing RNG-stone, if you call it that.
Sorry if this was a bit incoherent, I wrote it just before going to bed. What are your views on the current state of the game?
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Rino posted a message on 19.2 Cards That Transform Into Other Cards - HotfixPosted in: NewsLittle off topic, I like the new gear overlay on hotfixes and patch notes on the main screen. Great little touch!
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MaxBocker posted a message on No fun opening Cardpacks anymorePosted in: General DiscussionThis guy is right. When everyone has all the cards then you loose originality and you end up facing the same DH decks and Priest decks. Its extremely boring to face opponenets with the same decks because of card perversion. Free cards makes it worse, now everyone will jump on the Priest/DH ban wagon.
Figuring out how to build something with limited options spurs ingenuity and creativity. Nothing creative about copying meta decks.
"But its free!!!" said the retard. So is tap water but nobody drinks its.
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TheHiddenNinja7 posted a message on No fun opening Cardpacks anymorePosted in: General DiscussionI think OP's point was that commons and rare's shouldn't be subject to the no duplicates rule.
I guess I can see the point. They're common enough that they don't need this, and it means that dust can start to be collected (to save up to craft your first epics) without disenchanting before you have every single common of the set.
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abupaco posted a message on Priest lacking board clears this expansion setsPosted in: General Deck BuildingQuote from TheArcanist236 >>So, Breath plus: 4-mana deal two, 5-mana deal one and to 7+ mana cards. I'm not saying its barren, but it's underwhelming compared to priests of the past. I agree with OP that the class could use a reasonable board clear that doesn't require you to wait until two turns after DH kills you.
so what the hell you ask for????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
freaking priests!!!!
you play 20+ spells that didn't start in your deck-always the ones you need more-
you play a minion then resummon it 15+ times
Please priests quit playing this class or just Silence, like Lich king forced you in order to battle your disguisting class
you and mages are the reason the game isn't a serious competitive and pure fun.
Legit question here and im going to make a thread about it later....
When you lose a game after playing 30 cards that you didn't plan to from the begining, how the hell you can learn from it, how you improve your game plans when all your wins are given by random extra cards ????????????????????????
i ll tell you, you just never get better, you rely on discover or steal mecganics, so the answwr to OP question is
you allready play constantly
and everything else suposed to be played by your opponent and not you, and you discover it excactly when you realy need it
so stop crying
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fjl93 posted a message on FINALLY!!! FINALLY!!! NERFS ARE COMING!!!Posted in: General DiscussionThey missed the mark with Tickatus. That card was the main reason why everyone was playing agro, since it disrupts any control/combo deck. And, they also missed Evolve Shaman's weapon. That thing should have 2 or 3 attack. It delivers 16 damage to the face if we don't count the 2 additional copies you can get (32 in that scenario)... That damage output while also developing a huge field it's extremely unhealthy. And given that they nerfed the main decks that countered it... It'll be everywhere.
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Tausomaki posted a message on Tickatus 76% wr legendPosted in: Tickatus 76% wr legendYeah unfortunately but that's why you have a lot of imp or other minions. It will corrupt if it STAYS on board and other minion will rotate.
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xskarma posted a message on Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Decks - The Big Deck PreviewPosted in: NewsIt's fun. Not EVERY deck needs to be able to get Legend on ranked ladder. Some decks are just meant to be vehicles to have fun with new cards. Sometimes it;s as simple as that. :)
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suchti352 posted a message on Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Decks - The Big Deck PreviewPosted in: NewsLet the netdecking begin!
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so much aggro, 5x Rogue, 2xTokenDruid.. :(
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Deck of Lunacy because you like some randomness? :) wand thief, prime, portal, jandice, keywarden, etc. not enough randomness? Mage is random just like rogue.
Still not sure about Cthun, the spells are not that great and costly.
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nah, once u had 2 copies and disenchanted them the system won't give them to you anymore
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this deck seem to attract many legend bragging loosers that still have no idea about cards or the game. Nice way of dealing with them ;)
Duel Pally or recruit Warrior is one of the funniest decks in game.
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not my deck, but easy - the dragon s gonna rotate. But I would not invest in this deck too much. Ras is so so and Astromancer can be discovered.
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what no broodmother in a shufflelock? in this aggro meta I don't know if thats a good idea. no point in inclusing Rustwix when dead by turn 5
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it's different when you play a deck alot to climb and if you adapt it;
then you know how to play a deck and also you know what to expect and how to play against certain metadecks. Just trying a deck 3x even if you think you know the cards is just different cup of tea.
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...it became so boring. The no duplicate rule ruined it for me. Before even if there was no epic/legendary at least I was excited to get a rare I was missing. Now its all just quick opening and disappointment ...everybody got all the rares quickly even F2P.
Same with all those free legendaries.
I don't get it. Developers did the same with World of Warcraft... At the beginning of Hearthstone it was special, now you get them for logging in, another one in your first packs and 2 for just playing your dailies (reward track)
Must be the majority of players just want a new XP > netdeck > start complaining cause their bought cards don't let them pwn other players..
sad
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Yea I put the Kobald in. Sometimes helps against the Hunters or DH too. Also I decided against Felosophy. and went for Alexstraza and corrupt medic. If I draw the shard cards early I have a chance against Hunter or Aggro DH, control is also good so far..
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would really like to play it but I face evolve shaman every time