Hearthpwn

Quote from Pizzacats >>

Quote from PetiteMouche >>

 

Demon Hunter at its conception borrowed a lot of what Hunter and Rogue had while not also borrowing their weaknesses, incredible aggression and tempo, alongside a lot of lifegain, mana cheating, and card draw - things that kept the original two classes from being too strong because they lacked them.

When did rogue lack card draw and mana cheating exactly ?

 rogue doesn't have board clears either, nor will it have "hero power synergy" since you want to buff real weapons, not your hero power, nor will it have deathrattle synergy once rotation happens. Rogue identity will literally just be draw cards, hit face, and swing the board by mana cheating.

 Rogue may not have been lacking in card draw, but it WAS lacking in card draw that was so efficient that it could be played in tempo and aggro decks without sacrificing anything (at least, in the before times this was the case).  Also, Rogue wasn't meant to gain a lot of life, which is why they've never gotten healing outside of weapon specific Lifesteal cards like Spectral Cutlass or Leeching Poison - which was too strong and gave Rogue too much healing, so they had to nerf it.

An as Pizzacats says, Rogue also was limited in Board Clears.  Fan of Knives is far too lacking in power to be called a "board clear" since it doesn't have synergies like health reduction, it's basically a "large scale ping cantrip".  Vanish WAS a board clear, and a dang good one at that, which is why they Hall of Famed it.  And Blade Flurry is far too narrow to hinge Rogue's class identity on.  In any Rogue deck, it's a cheaper Fan of Knives with no card draw.  In specifically Kingsbane Rogue, it IS a really effective board clear, though it still has a "cost" and prerequisite, so I don't count it as highly as I do Vanish.

Demon Hunter has board clears.  And incredible single target removal.  And efficient card draw.  And aggressive-or-late game tribal synergies.  Et cetera et cetera.

Class identities are strange, and widely muddled.  Most classes don't have a lot of mechanics that are entirely their own, as the pool of mechanics is so small relative to classes that many classes share features of their identity with one another, either thematically or gameplay-wise.

Demon Hunter at its conception borrowed a lot of what Hunter and Rogue had while not also borrowing their weaknesses, incredible aggression and tempo, alongside a lot of lifegain, mana cheating, and card draw - things that kept the original two classes from being too strong because they lacked them.

As the Core Set(s) and future expansions mold the card pool, all classes will probably form stronger identities over time, sometimes changing entirely depending on what Blizzard thinks is right.  Its exciting, and makes the future seem bright.

I think it's pretty typical for most people (myself included until I realized this) tend to either be extremely down on the cards their favorite class gets because their wants or expectations are incredibly high, or extremely up on them out of bias.

My favorite classes are Druid, Hunter, Shaman, and Rogue - though I mainly play Rogue and Shaman in Wild for memes.  I'm content with Druid's list, figuring that a Token strategy will probably flourish with crazy pop-off turns with Guff Runetotem and the many nature spells that either ramp you or summon tokens.  Hunter looks like it has some powerful opportunities for some cool Midrange strategies, especially now that the game is becoming more minion based.

Shaman is getting excellent cards for my two favorite tribes, Murlocs and Elementals.  Whether or not any of that is competitive isn't relevant to how pleased I am that those cards now exist.  And Rogue is incredibly powerful, and received multiple very strong cards.  I can't complain!

It's important to remember in our pessimism that we can't really compare Hearthstone in early April to Hearthstone as it is right now.  The entire game is getting a massive power shift downward, with some of the most powerful cards we've ever seen which came from the Year of the Dragon leaving standard, as well as the Core Set rotating multiple power cards out of every class and replacing them with more niche ones.  What we'll be getting will be powerful for Hearthstone as it will be, I'm sure.  Definitely not powerful compared to Hearthstone as it is, mostly.  I'm looking at you, Scabbs Cutterbutter and Field Contact.

I will say, that's a pretty big number of board interaction without a payoff or win condition.  And honestly?  That IS pretty bogus, and Priest is my least favorite class.  In fact, what they've gotten here makes them even MORE frustrating, as they'll just repeatedly wipe the board until I run out of resources and/or give up out of frustration.

All I can do is hope that this is deliberate and that the Mini-Set provides the oomf Priest needs to end games in less than 40 minutes.

I'd probably be more incentivized to run it in a really grindy control shaman list, which is where I had it back in Rise of Shadows days because Shudderwock can grant an extra 10 cards in the deck if need be.  9 Mana was far too much for a list like that, but 8 mana is a little more reasonable.  I can at least follow up with Hero Power.

I will say that because of the nature of her applications pre-reversion, there should be a dust refund.  Her only application being in one deck does mean that those players had to craft her, and they should get that dust back.

As some people above have pointed out, every class becomes the most hated class in the game whenever it's doing well.  Just look at Shaman, debatably the worst class in the game for years from a mechanical perspective, but whenever it happens to be good it's positively loathed for it.

And some classes are hated even when they aren't doing that well, like Hunter; who made such an impression in Basic/Classic and during Naxx that people still believe they're justified in hating it today!  That's where DH is right now in terms of public opinion imo, he was so powerful out the gate that people will probably hate him forever.

All that being said, there are people out there who hate all the classes, so don't feel bad about playing what you like.

I'm really curious what it is people are expecting out of Hearthstone art, that way I could better understand where the letdown is coming from.  Hearthstone has a very deliberate style, one that is consistent, colorful, and zany.  I've been a big fan of this change, as it makes the game feel more artistically cohesive, and I enjoy the somewhat cartoony style (which I know a lot of people seem to dislike, or at least they seem to point to the artwork being cartoony as a downgrade).

Like, could I get some examples of some pieces that don't hit home for people who think this?  I saw Tavish Stormpike get mentioned, and I'll say this much; I believe all of the Mercenaries are currently depictions of low-level WoW characters of their class.  Them not doing anything exciting or carrying with much grandeur is most likely deliberate on the part of the artists (as requested by the devs) so that in future expansions they can get upgraded.  These are the characters we'll be following all year, after all.

To the point of me better understanding everyone's point of view, can people who dislike the Barrens artwork point out some pieces of Hearthstone art that they're really into, so I can compare?

This design is sweet!  And it feels great to finally get Saurfang on a card, he's so cool, so iconic!  And this is the first time I think Warrior's gotten Resurrect mechanics.  I also really like that he triggers the Frenzy minions he summons, so it's really efficient.

This is a really cool tool for aggro matchups.  Playing this onto an active board and trading efficiently into your opponents minions lets you buff up your whole board!  I'm really hoping that the battlefield matters more this season, that way aggro feels more fair and midrange has more options.

This card is... insane?  Like, so good?
Am I stupid?  Okay yeah but c'mon, this seems really powerful.  That statline, even on something that can't attack, is pretty impressive.  This is a brilliant anti-aggro card, punishing your opponent for going wider by matching every minion they play, and demanding they trade into it.

What an interesting, powerful card.  As a Hunter player, I'm not even remotely bothered (I know that sounds like I'm being passive aggressive, but I'm being honest) by Demon Hunter getting Deathrattle support.  And Deathrattle support THIS GOOD is pretty cool!

What is unfortunate about this card is that it's costed at 7.  Most of the strongest board wipes in the game are costed between 7 to 8 mana, which means playing this on curve (at its most powerful) against any control class probably ends in no board presence.  However, since you're summoning Deathrattles, that downside is diminished pretty significantly.
Altogether, a powerful tool for an archetype nobody's really sold on yet.  We've yet to see anything you're really wanting to cheat out that's actually a Demon Hunter card, and Neutral cards are always set to be slightly weaker than class ones.

We'll definitely see!

I'm gonna put my hands up real fast and make a quick disclaimer:
I'm only here because I like discussing card/game design and I'm an advocate for what Tickatus as a card stands for; I don't play Warlock and I haven't enjoyed playing control(?) since Cube Hunter rotated.

That being said, the only person I saw addressing me directly, Carfusso, you're alright.  I do wish you'd refrain from using some specific words when you make jabs at Tick, but I'll also say be as unkind to him as you want, he's a playing card.  Just please be a little gentler for your readers, you never know who'll see that.
Okay!  I certainly agree that Fatigue is a great mechanic, and I do really fondly remember the card draw decision points back when it was more relevant to me as a player, it really felt skill intensive when I was making decisions.  The more cards they make that cause Fatigue to matter less, the slightly crankier I get that a cool and skill challenging mechanic is being overwritten.  I will say however that there does appear to be a huge bias against mill as a concept/mechanic that you have, that would make this conversation more difficult.

I simply don't have the power or time to convince anybody to change their minds about anything, I simply have my opinions and like to share them.  Perhaps Tickatus being a card that packs as much power as it does is an issue, and the cards that exist around Tick certainly offer to pull or push him to a greater power level.  But is there really no salvation for this?
I don't want to tell anybody to do anything, and I refuse to glean any judgements about skill because of negative reactions to a card.  Highlander Druid can shuffle what, 14?  18?  Cards into your deck by playing and copying Ysera Unleashed.  So there's at least 1 deck you can pick if you like control and hate Tick.

We'll be seeing the biggest changes in Hearthstone at the end of the month.  I don't really feel Tick is a problem enough card that they'd change him until after Forged in the Barrens comes out if he continues posing an issue, though that's the real crux of my problem with stat-based arguments in this discussion; Tickatus isn't a problem in the case of win rates.  He's played in a low tier-2 deck, sitting with all of the other control decks in that tier.  The reason this is isn't even really related to Tick at all, it's because aggro (and one midrange list) decks are all at the tip-top, and speed shuts down greedy Galakrond Warlock.

There's an undeniable feelbad about losing cards in your deck, and I understand better that a larger part of the issue is that it's sourced from one card.  I do feel that it's polarized when we get to this point, because it's either 1 card, multiple cards, or no cards.  I'm sure most people who hate Tick would advocate for their being no cards that do this, which I understand.  In my opinion, as someone who wants mill as an answer to control decks, it's probably better if it's just Tickatus.  It would be way worse if a person was running anywhere from 2 to 5 mill cards in their deck, assuming Blizzard wanted it so bad they made a few cards to support it.

And as a final aside about LoR, a game I absolutely adore; currently a control deck is running around being very successful, using Lissandra and Trundle to generate multiple 8+ cost units to either threaten lethal with powerful trample/overwhelm units, or beat control matchups by cheating the Watcher out of their hand somehow.  It uses board wipes and attack reduction effects to stay alive and control the board in the mean time.  It's about as controlly as the game gets, in my opinion, and I also play casually.  If anybody's curious, I play Deep Sea Monsters with Nautilus because big numbers make me smile.

He's wonderful!  :')

He's even Hamuul's own son, his baby boy.

Glad I could help!

This isn't clickbait, it's REALLY important.

The Druid Mercenary's name is Guff.  Guff!  That's such a funny name!  Big ole Tauren lad named GUFF.
No idea what he does but when you play him you could say a fun catch phrase like "You don't want no Guff!" or something like that.

Go ahead and read Living Seed (Rank 1)'s flavor text that's where I first saw it.

G U F F