Hearthpwn

Quote from NIOIN >>

Quote from Th3D1rtSt4R >>

At least it is healthier than Standard.

 I don't think it is. After all, standard doesn't have Open the Waygate.

 Powerful is not the same as unhealthy...

At least it is healthier than Standard.

I think people will quickly discover you can do absolutely absurd things with Lady Vashj. The fact that you can leverage freeze to get multiple minions of the next higher tavern tier can create some pretty swingy games. You may not be able to tier up and freeze for the triple next turn, but you can absolutely play around it and come out on top.

Bump it to 5 and remove the use limitation on it.

Toxfin should be TT5 imo, with Lookout in TT4. I feel like they swapped the wrong Murloc.

I don't mean to come off so abrasive, but wow. This site has absolutely 0 organization and repetitive posts run completely rampant. Reddit has better organization and it is literally a post dump site. But enough with bashing the staff, and let's dive into some constructive feedback.

Problem 1

Currently, General Discussion has a sticky for salt discussion and that is about it. On the very first page (22 posts), 10 of which are nerf gripe threads and only 1 of them is locked and it isn't even due to redundancy. Why are people complaining about Standard in this section? There is literally a section for Standard. Why are these posts not being moved to the correct section and consolidated? The Standard Format section is a graveyard because of this. Which takes me to the next issue.

Problem 2

Each game mode has its own section and they are ghost towns. As if the complaining was not already unnecessarily littering the General section, it is also sometimes just littering the specific game mode section. Why is there not a consolidation thread entitled something like "State of the Standard Meta"  for people to dump their complaints in instead of creating a ton of redundant complaint threads and drowning out otherwise digestible posts worthy of actual discussion?

I recently started working on a Primer for Wild Shudderwock Shaman. I also created a similar post back in 2016 for Standard N'Zoth Priest. In fact, I staff member commented on that thread saying that it was something they wanted to encourage. The thread just drifted off into the night after seemingly being met with praise. Why? Because there is utter chaos in most sections on the site.

If there was a section specifically listed for deck write ups in those sections, people would be able to find this kind of stuff if they wanted to and would also be inspired to do their own write ups. The Deckbuilder functionality of the site is great and all, but the reality is that finding stuff within it is also a complete disaster and most don't even have write ups about them to help players digest great content to help them in their Hearthstone exploration. This results in, what I would assume, a lot of people going offsite to find such content... that seems counter productive.

I know that moderating a forum cannot be easy and that you all have lives outside of Hearthstone. But I thought I would drop my thoughts here, as someone who has created a lot of content for various MTG websites and forums and has been looking into working with Hearthstone content recently - but also as a general forum reader who has been using the site more and more often lately.

I would love to work with staff if it is decided that the forums could use some restructuring and you all are curious about what my thoughts are on the actual information architecture for content on the forums. I will keep an eye on this thread as much as I can, but otherwise a staff member can reach out to me via PM.

These anti-shaman posts every couple hours are more cancerous than the deck itself... JFC.

Quote from Hannya >>

Quote from TardisGreen >>

Quote from JarlBallin >>

Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?

Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.

Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.

Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into Deathwing, Mad Aspect for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about making Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?! 

Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.

 

And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.

 

Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.

The change to Mogu makes it unplayable.  The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.

Next time before you start rant, get a clue.

 No.

Now it will evolve into a 10/10 or higher 50% of the time.

 So? The deck is no longer able to turn tight corners in the midamge thanks to consecutive Corrupt Elementalist on turns 4/5 or 5/6. I think people are underestimating how significant of a hit it is for the deck, and those who do not understand that - probably have not actually piloted the deck enough to know what tight games are (and yes, it has them - lots of them). Mogu having an upshift in mana doesn't actually make "well now he mutates into better stats" an argument that is anything more than speculation. Because the deck may just end up cutting Mogu now to adjust for having a weaker midgame where other decks can punish you for having marginal removal and an over reliance on small rush minions coming down essentially 2 turns later.

Don't get me wrong, I think Galakrond Shaman is still quite playable.

But you people down playing these changes are simply on a witch hunt that is running dry.

To think that you expected hefty balance changes to a deck where stats caused outcry in the 1st 24 hours of a set release is comical. It is also fascinating how many people attribute the play rate of the deck to being a result of sheer power and don't even consider that it houses many residual pieces of a former deck making the barrier to entry for a competitive 1st week, insanely low for those players - which likely inflates the play rate simply due to accessibility.

Who the hell would shift from Shaman to other decks when your key legendary is free and the rest are rare crafts/pulls, in order to craft a bunch of legendaries for all of these crazy other decks?

All you people bitching about these nerfs are being dramatic as hell.

These changes are significant enough to allow other decks to start closing the WR gaps but still allow the deck to continue to be a player in the meta. The WR of Shaman has already gone down significantly since they announced they were making adjustments and it is going to go down even further and bring it more in line with other decks without snuffing it out of the meta completely.

There is no world in which these win rates stay as is with these minor changes, and is most certainly is not going up. That only leaves on direction for it to go... can you guess it?

If you don't think 5 and up to 6 mana is enough of a change, then you clearly have not played that much of the Shaman deck. Many games you are casting it at 5 because you need to do it again on turn 6 or you fall behind. Now it just completely removed your ability to do it on turn 5 which means your turn 6 is not going to turn as tight of a corner.

Get a grip on yourselves.

W  I  L  D
  SHUDERWOCK SHAMAN 

 Welcome to my write up for Shudderwock Shaman in the Hearthstone Wild format. The purpose of this thread is to condense a lot of the information scattered across the internet in regards to Shudderwock Shaman, from the card choices and deck lists, to the nitty-gritty details on matchups and strategy for what I consider to be one of the most value oriented decks available in the Wild format! The objective is to create a living thread to discuss the deck as it continues to evolve in the Wild format, and provide players with resources for constructing the deck.

What is Shudderwock Shaman?

Shudderwock Shaman is a Combo deck in the Wild format that revolves around various Battlecry triggers that provide you value in the mid-game and help set up for an infinite combo upon executing Shudderwock. Shudderwock Shaman currently resides somewhere around Tier 3 in the Wild format.

There has been a few historical itterations of Shudderwock Shaman as new sets have been released over time. The original combo was centered around playing Doppelgangster + Zola the Gorgon + Lifedrinker + Grumble, Worldshaker in order to create copies of Shudderwock that you could play for 1 mana and get repeatable damage from Lifedrinker in order to kill your opponent. The combination would also deploy Loatheb triggers to help protect your board after Shudderwock resolved, so that if your triggers randomly went against your favor, you could attempt to repeat the process the following turn, if you only received a basic copy of Shudderwock.

With the introduction of the Rise of Shadows expansion, Shudderwock Shaman found additional value in Jepetto Joybuzz. Now being able to replace Emperor Thaurissan with a battlecry effect that would allow you to directly, and steeply, discount top-end minions within the deck. Saviors of Uldum brought with it Corrupt the Waters, allowing you to double-dip into battlecry triggers for additional support and has also fostered the arrival of a few different variants of Shudderwock Shaman.

Why Shudderwock Shaman?

Shudderwock Shaman is a deck that offers the pilot a lot of various value cards and plays as a combo deck. If you are a player who loves playing combinations of cards and a deck that focuses on card sequencing, Shudderwock Shaman is a deck for you, regardless of what variant you may be playing. If you are looking for a quick deck to crush the ladder and climb, this deck may not be for you as it plays slow games. Currently, Shudderwock Shaman resides around Tier 3 and some variations may have more or less play depending on the state of the Wild metagame. Shudderwock Shaman is a great deck for anyone looking to play some of the most historic cards that Hearthstone has to offer, without falling into the category of a generic Reno Jackson or N'Zoth, the Corruptor deck.

Building Shudderwock Shaman

Shudderwock Shaman offers up a couple variations in the Wild format whether it is a Jade-based variant, a mill variant, or a highlander variant. Some may be more effective than others depending on the metagame.

There is a lot of option to run across the mana curve when you are running a Shudderwock deck, and there are a lot of battlecries you can lean on to create solid value during the course of the game. This portion of the primer is dedicated to walking you through the mana curve and the options you have when constructing your Shudderwock deck as you climb the ladder or prepare for a tournament.

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COMING SOON!

This thread is currently a WIP. As I am running short of time writing this tonight, I will update it in the next day or two in order to include a section discussing card combinations, share decklists, talk about the current state of the deck in the meta, and a few other things.

Want to jump into the discussion? Comment below with your ideas on card combinations, or share your decklist for Highlander Shudderwock, or even open up with some card ideas that I have missed in the post.

ABOUT ME

I see a new skin - I buy a new skin

The nerfs are good, stop being bad.

They are significant enough to slow down shaman and thus give other decks a better chance to win while still not taking away shaman's wincon.

Great nerfs

Quote from hillandder >>

Quote from Kharn55 >>

Crushing your enemies, making them cry like babies = fun

Destroying your opposition with overwhelming force = fun

Winning = ranking up, more rewards and faster gold = fun

Winning is everything.

 Imagine if exists a card like 1 mana minion, always start in your first hand and you always start the game, battlecry "You win the game".

Will be fun win with that card?

Actual Shaman decks don't be far away from that.

No. But why be Weevil Underwood if you can be Seto Kaiba?

Quote from Th3D1rtSt4R >>

A huge animation problem they should fix is Poison triggering on what would already be lethal damage... so absolutely unnecessary.

 They said they are going to remove poisonous animation with Dec 5 patch.

Armor removal is called damage. There are plenty of tech options.

Well, you see, first there was Mean Streets of Gadgetzan.  And the community saw that there were Jades.  And there was much reeeeeeeeeeeeeing

Then, there was K&C.  And turn 6 voidlords plus 8 life happened.  And Doomguards charged for masters with full hands.  And there was much reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeing.

Father Blizzard saw the reeeeeeeeeeeeing and saw it was bad.  And Father Blizzard spake, saying, "Let there be a reasonably powered set with powerful but non-game breaking REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Book of Brode, Chapter 13, Verse 1

Quote from Th3D1rtSt4R jump

A good number of the "Pro" players are also professional players in many other games as well...

They play games professionally because they are good enough to build a business around doing so. Perfectly legitimate.

I also second the comment about tournaments being completely different than ranked. Ranked is all about finding that above 50% win ratio and playing the game to abuse the law of large numbers in order to keep climbing.

Tournament play is not.

That was the impression I was under as well...

I couldn't care less whether they're classified as "pro" or whatever but as far as I knew a lot of these guys were pros in other games, many in other card games even.  Obviously a portion of them are simply decent players who know how to be entertaining 

Zalae was magic online's player of the year, Kibler has been a Magic pro since the 90's, Forsen was an (albeit apparently mediocre) SC2 pro, StrifeCro was an SC2 pro.  A couple of the casters have been Magic pros for decades.  I'm probably missing a bunch but I don't really follow streams and tournaments very much so this is just kind of off the top of my head.

tgt canceled