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    posted a message on Turn 6 Druid OTK Nerf?
    Quote from SCWT_FTW >>

    I don’t disagree. The mana reduction and ramp of Druid - while not necessarily producing a striking win rate - is so unfun to play against that it may warrant action. I feel the same about OTK mage. I sat frozen for 8 turns yesterday while the mage just drew his/her deck and then took me from 27 to 0 with two spells 

     I switched to Maly combo rogue to counter this deck. 13/13 against Mage so far. And the rogue still handles its own against most other decks.

    A couple well timed saps wrecks Libram pali etc.

    Posted in: Druid
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    posted a message on Deck with highest Skillcap

    I played alot of Maricle rogue and if you didn't plan it was instant lose pretty much.

    Patron warrior is a tough one, it definitely required planning but it was consistent regardless. Just a very good pilot made that deck shine.

    Shirvalla, imo was not high skill, the skill came more from the opponent out playing the combo then the pali player planning.

    There have been some tempo priest decks that were legit and handlock I'd throw in too.

    Best comment so far is it really depends on the matchup. I true test I'm the past have really been control warrior vs control warrior without 3rd party software. Some of those old Master tournies are mind blowing (and boring) that someone can see and plan 50 plays ahead for a win. That to me is high skill.

    Current meta though = lowest skill floor yet.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Do you guys have any success with control decks?
    Quote from Shadowrisen >>

    Well I mean if you're willing to stretch definitions that far, I suppose any deck is an aggro deck in that at some point it does damage, even if that is by forcing fatigue damage thru making the opponent live that long.  But, in the fairly useful style of categorizing decks into the triumvirate of aggro, control, and combo . . . there isn't really much debate about what decks fall where.

    Again, unless you somehow are trying to build a "pure" combo deck in which you have the combo pieces and nothing but varieties of cantrips and tutor cards, every combo deck will have removal, or life gain, or freeze mechanics, or armor gain, or something that gears towards keeping oneself alive until the combo can be enacted.  That in no way makes a deck a control deck.  In fact, I did a disservice to the topic by suggesting that having a bunch of removal is somehow even suggestive of control.  It isn't.

    Also, it's important to note that ANY deck may find itself playing a control role in any given game, but that does not make the deck control.  Whether a deck is considered aggro/control/combo is based solely around how it is INTENDED to win games.  That is why I say there is no successful control rogue.  Though it is true, the Galakrond rogues today may find themselves fighting a value game deep into fatigue, that is not the intended win condition, and the reason I know that is true is the frequent inclusion of Edwin Van Cleef, Questing Adventurer, and Heistbaron Togwaggle.  These cards are all very aggressive options, and clearly evidence a desire to beat down the opponent.

    In any case, I made an offhand comment that has grown well beyond the scope of the OP, so I shall drop it.  Hope everyone is having a solid first day with the new cards.

     

    P.s.  Jesus people, nearly every class is capable of putting two damage into the opponent's board by turn 3 or 4.  Quit acting as if the Gibberling druid is an impossile matchup and adjust your deck accordingly

     

    EDIT:  Posted before I saw the "blah blah blah wrong" response.  Well argued, my dude.  Always nice to see some mutual respect and weight given to a fellow poster's ideas.  In any case, I haven't seen the decklist, I took my cue from your own original description of the deck, which is combo beyond a shadow of a doubt.  But since you insist on being rude, I'll just point out I said there's never been a "successful" control rogue and defined what I meant by the term.  Your homebrew doesn't come close to fitting the bill yet, so I have no idea why so defensive.  Who knows, though?  I'm sure Lorekeeper/Heistbaron/Big Rogue will be all the new rage come HCT time.

     Your definition of combo is wrong. Combo is a combination of cards that create a lethal play. That is it, cheat Maly out do 30+ damage 1 turn, combo.

    Building a wall, healing, creating copies and cheating said copies out are value and long game plays. The definition of control.

    Also, rogue N'Zoth wants a word with you... Huge heals, long game, taunt wall, removal... Feels kinda value/controllish.

    Kingbane rogue? Heal, removal late game win? It's a very control styled deck.

    Mech rogue? Huge heals, removal, value...

    Nope no control rogues in Hearthstone a history...

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Killbin or Kibler?

    I've never watched Killin and didn't know who that was until looking him up for this thread.

    Kibler I've tried to watch over thebthe years butfbut him very annoying and condescending. When he miss plays the few streams I've seen he makes excuses are argues with his audience... That and the compulsive board clicking, like dude, relax.

    Kibler is dated, suffered a mid life crisis and seperation and has nothing other than his stream, I find it sad and I wish him better. But, don't think he knows how to escape his own prison. You can see it in his personality in recent streams, his depression is full blown he lacks any joy. 

    So my vote is neither. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.
    Quote from samuellima91 >>
    Quote from Skyi101 >>

    So if rush is that good, even with low health. Why is everyone and there mom hating on the new legendary rush minions that guarantees a kill and leaves 6 HP on board?

    Rush is reactive. Charge is proactive.

    And hammer in a bubble against the cards you listed is bad, yes. Buts it's also game winning when played right.

     Because the community ALWAYS overreact to cards that end up not seeing any play and badly rate cards that look bad on the surface but then they end up becoming meta. There has been plenty of examples in every single card reveal period. Lady in White and Chameleos are two of the most notorious ones. People were going crazy about those two cards and they end up being so bad that they saw no play in standard and are completely dead in Wild. I overreacted to them as well. People are judging Turalyon, the Tenured way too early. The card got better after they revealed Commencement. If you pull him with that he kills something without taking any damage then you can kill another thing and you end the turn with a 3/9 taunt. That's really solid. Of course, that's highly dependent on the viability of Big Paladin but people just like to look at cards on their surface and ignore potential synergies and the fact that it's impossible to predict how the meta will turn out.

    Being proactive isn't about just going face with a charge minion. That's extremely short sighted. Getting good value trades and leaving a threat is also a proactive way to win the game. Your opponent has to react and if they fail you will be way ahead of them and they are going to have a hard time making a comeback. That's actually how the game should work. Charge minions are unhealthy. Stonetusk Boar is one of most cancerous cards in the game. Whenever there's a way to reliably make it big enough to kill your opponent, the meta becomes insanely frustrating. Some time ago, both Imprisoned Scrap Imp and Scavenger's Ingenuity were nerfed because they made Boar (and other chargers in Zoo) into an easy way to kill opponents so fast they barely had time to do anything. Those two cards would be fine if it wasn't for charge abuse. Boar should be removed from standard, eventually. It just causes problems.

    I don't know how Hammer of Wrath can be game winning outside of killing players that are already pretty much dead. Its draw isn't even conditional. It's regular random draw so it will never guarantee anything. If you use it to kill stuff so you don't have to sacrifice health or trade your own stuff then i suppose that can be game winning, occasionally. But, as i said, paying 4 mana to deal 3 damage is absolutely terrible. If there were better options this card would be cut instantly from all lists and remain in Limbo until it was buffed/removed from standard. The only reason to ever use this card is just that: a lack of better options.

     A card is bad because better options don't exist?

    Guess I'll just be a terrible legendary player for getting legend running 2 copies. Thanks.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on How many legendaries do you own?

    Playing since release, under 200 Canadian 100% collection.

    Just finished yesterday, openner a Golden king mulka off of brawl. It's been a long time coming...

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.
    Quote from Reinan23 >>
    Quote from Wiggy_HS >>
    Quote from Reinan23 >>

    0 mana sunwalker and Alura legandaries are broken for paladin, it's going to be one of the strongest classes in the new expansion.

    Why? What's the wincon there?

    Devout Pupil is basically better (not even strictly) Anubisath Defender. It probably doesn't come down on curve very often, and it's not game winning. High Abbess Alura seems better in pala than priest (less spells that screw you), but it's hardly game winnning. Certainly not broken.

    Paladin might continue to be decent, but it's probably still going to be in aggro form due to their lack of consistent card draw and late game win conditions. Could be because Blizzard gives them something new every exp, like a toddler with zero attention span.

    Your win condition is drop your midrange minions, control the board and hit the opponent's face lol... paladin is really good at it.

     Person before says you can't play agro because no card draw, then someone posts you have to play agro because there's no value...

    I love it and you are right sir.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.

    Tempo and playing board is cheesy but agro is fun and exciting? 

    Um what? Also not liking a play style doesn't make the class bad it just means you like Red but the class is currently in a blue phase.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.

    So if rush is that good, even with low health. Why is everyone and there mom hating on the new legendary rush minions that guarantees a kill and leaves 6 HP on board?

    Rush is reactive. Charge is proactive.

    And hammer in a bubble against the cards you listed is bad, yes. Buts it's also game winning when played right.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.

    Hammer of Wrath is crap at 4 mana, it would see play if it was 3. And so is Call to Adventure. People talked about including it after Aldor Attendant got reworked to 1 mana and it got cut very quickly. If either of them are as good as you guys say, please explain why they doesn't get run in any decks and why even the best players at Legend don't run them.

    What's really funny is nothing that I suggested goes outside the boundaries of Paladin identity, yet you're accusing me of wanting cards outside Paladin identity. Plenty of "fast" damage nowadays is minion-based. Just look at Restless Mummy. When Witchwood was first released Paladin got a Rush card along with the other classes, and I believe this is the first expansion post-Witchwood where we've gotten a Rush card that we can use. Paladins have traditionally been about minion combat, Rush uses minions as removal and establishes board at the same time - the mechanics aren't conflicting. Neither is card draw outside Paladin identity, yet you're accusing me of whining and wanting something that shouldn't be available.

     I legend this season with a homebrew pure libram deck that runs 2 hammers of wrath. After 50+ games I'm over 70% with the deck. So are you saying my winrate would be higher if I dropped them?

    Hammer is far from useless.

    Also, you have totally misread and made up a wrong interpretation of what I said. No where did I say paladin shouldn't have draw... Draw is also not a class mechanic it's a card game mechanic.

    PS rush minions are reactive at best. The problem if any with pali is that it's a tempo class (sometimes combo) and tempo has generally struggled against the hyper agro decks out there or the casino RNG decks that are Mage, Priest and Rogue.

    That doesn't make the class bad.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.
    Quote from ShadowAldrius >>

    Make one of the best statlines in the game into a Senjin Shieldmasta that doesn't have Taunt is an amazing card, isn't it?

    Wait, what?
    Using Call to Adventure to pull your 1 drop is pretty. It techs it out fast, it's got a good statline -- 3/5 for 4 is average and because it cycles doesn't really have a card cost, it thins your deck by a card.
    It could probably have been a 2 mana card, but it's really not that bad.

    The biggest issue is the core set. The secrets (and this applies to Hunter and Mage too) have no focus, and the pay off for them is really arbitrary. Compare that to the Rogue Secrets, which have very clear focuses and the punishments are very clear. Your opponent tries to develop a board, you respond with a 2/3 poisonous minion. They try to play spells to gain value, you draw cards. They try to make effective trades, you replace your minions with bigger ones.

    Some of the Paladin secrets don't even make sense or your opponent can punish you for even playing them. And then there are super wonky cards like Holy Wrath. Truesilver Champion is weird too. It's an aggressively stated weapon that heals you. Why?

     It's funny because I wasn't even talking about Call to adventure. I was talking about hammer. It's such an under utilized card for its value. 3 damage face or easy board control with bakes in draw.

    It's ironic that player complain the class lacks draw yet refuse to acknowledge the card draw that's there. Some of the nerfs and HOF happened because paladin was the agro draw your deck or combo draw your deck class. The draw nerfs were needed. Maybe with a lighter touch but needed.

    What DH got is broken levels of draw and both rogue and paladin got nerfed to make space for it. And honestly it shouldn't be compared, DH is overtuned in that department.

    Paladin has always been the token/buff class and libram lives up to that identity. So does murloc agro builds for that matter.

    Honestly while paladin is a little wonky it retains an identity and is very playable right now in the current meta and got buffed going into the next expansion. I get the players that play solely paladin wanted some broken legendary but the class didn't need it and received a very good package overall.

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.

    My post wasn't flaming in the least. It was critical. I even went back and read your OP/rant. All my points stand.

    And in libram deck there are 4 draw cards auto include, and 2 cards that refill your hand. Resources are not an issue for paladin ATM. 

     

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on The Paladin class needs a rework.

    I didn't read the whole wall. I'll say this though...

    Palladian has been to the mountain top, it's consistently in meta even if not tier 1, libram paladin is currently a thing (and I run 17-2 with a homebrew variant d5-legendary and remain over 70% with it after another 40+ games in legend - most of my loses to curved agro DH no less).

    Also, 3000 wins and don't know how to counter. So you know the class, but not the game. A lot of players do not realize that the majority of knowledge in making winning plays lies outside know their prefered class... Rather knowing the opponents deck and strategy and playing to counter it.

    Lastly, libram paladin is in a very good spot and the new expansion cards offer a lot of support to make it stronger. So while not mind blowing this expansion makes an already META deck stronger.

    I think OP you need to learn the game mostly, just not the class. And given your knowledge on AOE and board removals, paladin is one of the better classes for board control/removal and got additional support - even if it requires 2 cards. Clear board and gain tempo for 2 cards is pretty damn good. Or build a 10/1 wild pyromancer board clear with a hand of 0mana librams. There's always been options and still are in paladin.

    Pretty short sighted to call a class dead. 

    Posted in: Paladin
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    posted a message on Hearthstone players are such a babies
    Quote from Ace1a >>
    Quote from Lycaon55 >>

    These OTK, combo deck lovers are losing it and its really fun to watch... Tell you what, I don't know if it's gonna get nerfed but in the meantime, although I don't like DH, I'll play this class and use Glide just to piss off these babies and see them rant even more in the forums...hilarious!! Waiting for the down votes and we know who they are LOL!!

     Glide will force control out so the meta will be almost 100% aggro. We aren't babies, we are extremely scared about the fact Glide will break hearthstone.

     What control? There is no true control in the current standard meta. Priest would be the closest, but it's win condition is just infinite RNG value shinanigans and it does it poorly.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Hearthstone players are such a babies
    Quote from TheNameForgotten >>

    I really, really don't think glide will be as good as everyone expects. It's four mana and only makes sense to play if you have one other card in your hand or fewer. It messes with control but spending four mana to mess with your opponent is rather expensive for an agro deck. Demon hunter already has plenty of draw and this card will be clunky.

     This is probably closest to the truth. I'd guess a mid-range/control dh deck would actually want this card more than agro.

    Agro just wants consistency and to finish the game before the opponent can gain board or find their combo.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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