Hearthpwn

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On topic:

We do need more dragons, more pirates, more murlocs, more beasts, more mechs. We need the 100 new cards that are yet to be released.

I'm not sure why we would need more themed cards ! What about cards with new game mechanics (like Inspire) in this one. It seems better to me then just a bunch of cards with races over them.

Well, we don't really need 132 cards with Inspire, there's room for both I think.

Dragons, completely failed. If they don't release a few Dragons with this set, with the intentions of trying to make the Dragon tribe playable, I will be severly dissappointed.

And as for the 1 Dragon released so far, Coldarra Drake, I hate it. Mainly cause it is a mage card. Mage has made a new deck type or TWO, every single set that has come out. If there is one class that doesn't need a new deck, it is mage. Or Warrior or Warlock for that matter. Give em to anyone else, but those three classes seem to always come out on top after new cards.

Time to make a new deck type for one of the classes that is actually lacking deck types. Mage is not it.

Oh yeah, and why are Paladin and Druid last to get some cards revealed? That happend last time.

If only Silver Hand Regent was 2/4 it could be good. With only 3 health and the majority of classes having a cheap 3 damage removal, it will almost never be able to be played on turn 3 and survive til turn 4 to take advantage of its text.

A 3/3 for 3 mana with no text is terrible in constructed, and that's what it will be most of the time if you play it on turn 3. Waiting til turn 5 doesn't make it much better, sure you can guarantee the text activation, but on turn 5 you're probably better off playing one of the numerous great 5 drops already out there.

Compare it to Imp Gang Boss. This dude almost guarantees spawning a 1/1 token AND with no additional mana required. There are a few hard counters such as Kodo or Shadow Word, Polymorph, Hex, or silences, but if they are using one of these cards on your Imp Gang Boss, it's usually a good thing as these removals are rare and usually better spent on dealing with bigger creatures. And on top of the almost guaranteed 1 token, he often can spawn 2 or 3 tokens. And it doesn't cost anything.

Silver Hand Regent could be a 2/4 and because the text actually requires more resources to activate and more time, it would still be worse than Imp Gang Boss. It should definitely be a 2/4. Not sure if it will even be playable as a 3/3.

As a 2/4 you could play Garrison Commander on 2, Silver Hand Regent on 3, and on 4 you could get 4 dudes, if you were playing against a FISH. Your opponent will try to counter this. Even as a 2/4 the chance of both the Garrison Commander and Silver Hand Regent surviving til turn 4 is very, very low. As a 3/3 the chance of this happening is almost nonexistent. You could instead just try for any 2 drop + 1 hero power on 4 for 2 dudes, but the 3/3 Silver Hand Regent on 3 is still unlikely to survive.

And even it the Regent survives, 2 mana for 2 dudes isn't exactly great, it's just breaking even. Hero powers are weak and inefficient. Also a 3/3 with no text for 3 mana is terrible. So the 1 extra dude has to make up the value lost by a bad 3 drop and an inefficient hero power. Not good enough. It really needs the 1 more HP to make it somewhat of a challenge to remove. As a 3/3, it is slow and easy to remove, not something that any deck type is looking for.

It really should have been a 2/4. I don't understand why Blizz will go all out on the aggro cards but are so reluctant to make slower cards even close to as good as their aggro counterparts.

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How is patron/frothing combo broken?

Yup, ~60 damage (from hand) to face, definitely working as intended. And this was in a tournament. They nerfed Miracle because of their 22-26 damage (from hand) combo to to face but I guess 60 is fine. 

I'd rather get beaten by these Nozdurmu shenanigans than that lame ass PW combo, as I'd probably be laughing all the way through, bug or no bug.

I agree. So many other things that need to be fixed first.

Also this Nozdormu "combo" is such a late game play. Can't play til turn 9, and then it must survive a turn. Noone plays 7+ mana Legendary cards that have no immediate impact as they are all seen as too slow in this meta.

The only one that can get around this slowness is Rogue. If anything needs nerfing from this it should be the Conceal that allows this play to be unstoppable. Or the EmperorT that makes OTK combos available too early. Or the Grim combo pieces that have domniated the meta for 2 months. Or the Boom that has been the best card in the game for 7 months, or the Mad Scientist, or the Shredder that took over the 4 spot.

This extremely niche Noz "combo" has been around for such a short time compared to any other thing on that list, and is also played far less frequently. Most people probably have never even played against it and don't even know what it is. This should not be a major concern. There are so many other things that need adjusting before Nozdormu gets looked at. Long live The Timeless One.

Quote from nco71 jump

I think it s just gonna be a Paladin new hero portrait ... nothing extraordinary.  i don t think Blizzard has ever or will ever release single class extension or cards, it would  be too unbalanced and frustrating for people who only play specific classes.

 

 Oh god, please no. Portrait would be so damn boring and pointless.

And I don't think it would be a Paladin only expansion or adventure, just that the neutrals will be Paladin themed or for Paladin.

Sort of like how Grim Patron is a neutral card even though it is practiacally a Warrior only card. IMO GvG helped Mage more than any other class, BRM helped Warrior more than any other class. Which classes got helped most could be argued, but there are clearly winners and losers in each expansion / adventure.

All the adventures and expansions naturally are better for some classes and worse for others. Not saying it should be Paladin only, just that it should be Paladin favored / themed in the neutral card area, and Paladin should certainly be one of the classes that is a winner in this adventure.

Cult Master isn't fast enough and doesn't cause enough problems for the enemy. In our super fast meta things that require setup aren't as good. Cult Master requires you to have a board, and it will only live for one turn, so get your trades in then. Acolyte of Pain on the other hand, doesn't require a set up, and on top of that it usually forces the enemy to burn a high value removal or weapon on him so that you don't get double or triple draw out of the Acolyte.

One Zombie Chow is considered wrong because if you only run one the chance of drawing it for turn one are so low, that you essentially have to plan your turn 1 around not having it 80% of the time. It esentially is the same as playing a deck with no one drops. And if he isn't played turn 1 his value drops more and more as the game goes on. So play two to get an early game, or don't care about turn 1 early game tempo and just play zero.

1 Lay on Hands is really the only Paladin Epic you need, especially on a budget. I recommend getting one asap. Coghammer is great, I personally love it, but I wouldn't say it's necessary or even played much by that many people.

The difference between Midrange and Control is Control doesn't really exist anymore. Midrange you play for tempo and try to win. Control you just try to not lose, outlast them. No one really controls anymore cause there are too many OP tempo cards that keep coming out.

And also cause for a good control Paladin you need Survivablity and Draw, both of which we have gotten screwed on. We need survivability, like Warriors armor, Paladin's version is Health, but as opposed to getting more/better Healing we have only gotten shafted. Healbot gave our uniquie GoK effect to all classes in a neutral card and made it stronger than GoK, backhanded nerf for Paladin and it's survivablity.

And as for card draw, Paladin has the most class draw cards(tied with Druid at 6), and yet it still has more draw problems and draws less than any other class.

As for other problems with control Paladin, well we also have the worst removal and spell damage in the game.

Classes need differences, but with getting completely screwed on our draw, heals, and spells, one would think they would give us the best minions?

NOPE. Just look at Cobalt Guardian vs Goblin Blastmage, or Scarlet Purifier vs Flamewaker/Imp Gang Boss. So we also get screwed on the minion front.

FUCK YOU BLIZZ. Give Paladin some love.

Quote from NickkaJ jump

I have seen many Pally players use only one equality and am having trouble understanding their reasoning behind it. Anyone care to explain?

It is pretty bad to get two Equality in hand. Also Equality does almost nothing without a combo card to go with it.

If you just Equality, and don't have the Consecration to combo, all you've done it is lower their minions, AND YOUR MINIONS, down to 1 health. Not exactly great. Does nothing to pull you back from the brink and like almost all Paladin cards, must have a board to use it.

For that reason I run 1 Avenging Wrath just so I have an extra combo card for the Equality.

But even that has it's problems. Avenging Wrath @ 6 mana is way too expensive. Look at Flamewaker, Goblin Blastmage, and Arcane Missiles.

Apparently Blizz values random ping damage at around 3-4 pings per mana. Flamewaker and Blastmage nearly get their pings for free, they are solid minions without the ping damage. With this value on random pings, Avenging Wrath should only be about 3 mana, how the hell it is 6 makes no sense at all. I mean Blastmage gets half of an Avenging Wrath(4 pings) and pays nothing for it. WHY THE FUCK is Avenging Wrath 6 mana?

Card is not my creation. All credit goes to Brian Kibler. Go check out his site and the article discussing this card.

Great article: http://bmkgaming.com/five-hearthstone-cards-id-like-to-see/

I went with the 2nd option: remove "to your Hero" text. Compared to Warrior's Shield Block, it is 1 more point of health, but the Paladin version is so much more situational and restricted which is why I think it shouldn't be restricted to Hero healing only. Armor can be used whenever, heals on the other hand can't be used effectively in many circumstances.

Shield Block on turn 3 can be a Warrior play, but Flash of Light on turn 3 is terrible, your healing is minimal or nothing and using heals anywhere over 15 HP is always a risk due to Alexstraza.

The Paladin main goal is to have a board, With Paladin lacking efficient damaging spells, I think it is more than fair to allow this card to heal minions so they can maintain board. Especially since they are most likely wasting some of the heal if they use it on a minion anyways. Balanced.

 TLDR

• Paladin always lacking cards, most frustrating part of Paladin
• As one ESL caster put it: Paladin early game pressure is like a combination of 6 different things that need to be happening all at once
• We lack removal, board is crucial, yet we can't draw into those situational cards we need
• Paladin draw cards do less, yet are more situational/restricted than other classes, wth
• Paladin 6 class draw cards are so weak that we still use Azure Drakes
• Paladin Heals are so weak that we must use the neutral Healbot, instead of our class cards
• Healbot being stronger than Guardian of Kings is not cool
• Healing is a Paladin class mechanic, feels terrible using neutral cards

Paladin is always lacking cards. It's one of the most frustrating parts of playing Paladin. The class has 6 draw cards, tied with Druid for most in the game, yet how many do they use? Less than every other class. Paladin draw cards are so weak that Paladins still use Azure Drake, a weak body with nearly useless spell power, pretty much used only for the draw.

As one caster during ESL pointed out:

"Whereas Paladin, it's much harder to get that early game pressure, because the early game pressure isn't one card, it's like a combination of 6 different things that need to be happening all at once."

Since our "removal" is having bodies on the board, we have no comeback mechanic. Own the board or lose.

With a class that so heavily favors minions, trading, and a more controlling style of play, card draw is crucial to success. And along with having the worst removal in the game Paladin also has some of the worst card draw options in the game. I'm somewhat ok with Paladin having some of the weaker removals, but such terrible card draw options is not cool.

On top of many of our draw cards not doing anything other than draw, they are also situational. Why does Paladin have so many extremely situational draws that don't even do anything immediate? Other classes get draw that affect the board, or does something positive, along with drawing cards.

• Blessing of Wisdom - Must have board.
• Divine Favor - Must have less cards than the opponent.
• Holy Wrath - Must have an extremely slow, high mana cost deck to be effecient, and even then it is a huge gamble.
• Solemn Vigil - Must have board to trade away, or have board clear combo in hand already.

Just look at those cards, 3 of them don't do anything except draw cards, and yet have very, very specific situational restrictions on when they can be played.

Even the draws that do something reliable:

• Lay on Hands - 8 mana, kills an entire turn. Can only use late game. Kind of need some board to use. If you play it when they have board dominance, you already lost.
• Hammer of Wrath - 3 damage for 4 mana. Underpowered, inefficient.

Healing is one of Paladin's unique mechanics, yet their strongest heal is a neutral card. Kibler mentions in the article that it is quite odd that Paladin's best heal option isn't even a class card even though it's one of their class specific mechanics. I totally agree.

Before Antique Healbot even came out and every one thought it was a terrible card, I wrote a lengthy post about how it was going to be super strong and that it was, in effect, a underhanded nerf to Paladin by giving one of their class strengths to all the other classes by making Healbot both neutral and stronger than Guardian of Kings. Such a bad move Blizz.

Healbot feels great in other classes, but everytime I put Healbot in a Paladin deck it feels pretty shitty. Makes me think, "I'm a Paladin damnit, why the hell am I having to use neutral cards for my heals, is healing not one of my unique class mechanics?" Feels bad.

 Here's to hoping someone at Blizz reads Kibler's article and makes some of those cards. Especially this one.

Quote from Ballinglikeafool »

Quote from Sisuwolf »

Flame Leviathan isn't that bad. Kripp did a video on it. And while that doesn't mean it's right, I said the same things before, in the right deck, it makes sense. It is made for a spell heavy deck, that doesn't use that many small minions. The "Draw-cry" is great against aggro and if you have the right deck it should hurt their board more than yours.

The main problem is that there is 0 reason to play Flame Leviathan when Boom exists.

Kripp did another GvG Legendary video recently, this time Gallywix. And he has actually done a video on almost all the GvG class Legendary cards at this point. All of which are considered sub-par(aside from Mal'Ganis), with Kripp pointing out that they can be good, they just need a deck built around them.

Hmmmmm, wonder what is one of the main reasons preventing people from building decks around these cards? Lets check the cost, oh right, four of them cost 7 mana. Well there's 1 reason why four of them are never played: Boom.

Two more are 5 cost and two are 6 cost, but even these are similar to the 7 cost ones in that they provide unique powerful effects, but require a deck built to support their effect.

These class GvG Legendary cards are powerful, yet situational, strong, yet not OP, about the power level that Boom should have (actually Boom should be weaker as everyone knows that class cards are supposed to be stronger than neutrals).

People play Boom in decks that would have never played a 7 before. It's not about the 7 spot, its about being unconditionally better than every other card.

Some more than others but if Boom wasnt here, I know of atleast 9 cards that would be guaranteed to see more play:

• Troggzor the Earthinator
• Flame Leviathan
• Gahz'rilla
• Malorne
• Neptulon
• Iron Juggernaut
• Trade Prince Gallywix
• Bolvar Fordragon
• Vol'jin

Boom being gone wouldn't change the amount that these cards are played.

Troggzor is one of the cards that sounds good but really isn't. Troggzor isn't just outclassed by Dr. Boom, it's realistically outclassed by the 6 mana legendaries as well.

Flame Leviathan is jank.

Gahz'rilla would maybe see more play if it were neutral, but it doesn't fit hunters well enough to serve the same purpose Boom does.

Malorne's problem isn't just boom, it's every other expensive card in the game. Ancient of War and Ancient of Lore are both better seven drops, and for that matter, most of the 8/9 drops are better 7 drops for druid than this.

Neptulon would see play. Woohoo shaman?

Iron Juggernaut is jank.

There isn't a popularized rogue deck to make good use of Trade Prince, it has nothing to do with Boom.

Bolvar is jank.

Vol'jin already sees the same kind of play he would if Boom was gone. In fact, one less super common fatty in the meta gives me less reason to play Vol'jin.

You really think "Boom being gone wouldn't change the amount that these cards are played?"

Mister_Smith said nearly the same thing.

Did you not read my reply to him? (see below) It applies here too.

I certainly would play these cards if Boom was gone. And with more than 30 million players there are certainly others.

You really think that no one would play these cards if Boom got nerfed? There is even 1 person explicitly stating that he would. That would certainly be more play for these cards. The change might not be a lot if only one person started playing them, but it would still be a change that gets these cards more play.

With the millions of players in this game, even if only 1% of the players started playing these cards, that's something like 250,000 people playing these cards.

Come on man, use your brain. 2+2=4 If you really still think that a Boom nerf would not increase the amount of play these cards see, then you are either lying or increadibly dim-witted.

Quote from Sisuwolf »

So you are saying that if Boom was removed / nerfed, none of these cards would be tried? Noone would innovate and make new decks? What would everyone replace their Booms with?

Atleast initially there would be a huge shake up. And many of these cards would get play as people try to replace Boom or make new decks.

Some might even stick. We might even get a few new deck types that weren't tried or weren't viable due to Boom being better / warping the meta.

The meta would stay the same?

Certainly not, it would slow down. Making many of these cards "better."

You can't see one of these other GvG cards being good in a world where Boom doesn't exist?

He's a big part of the reason for the super speed/tempo meta we have. Things would change alot when the most powerful card in the game suddenly isn't.

Pretty cool card. Not sure why some are saying it's too strong, it certainly isn't OP. Just a slightly bigger / more expensive Argent Protector. Only thing I don't like is it is situational, must have a board to play it. The other 3 cost Paladin cards already have that problem. We need a 3 drop, so strong, that can be thrown down on turn 3 no matter the board state, like an Imp Gang Boss or Flamewaker.

Paladin could use a turn 3 drop, as both of their 3 cost minions are situational and not really meant to just be thrown down without hitting their Battlecry. And aren't Paladins supposed to be the minion class? Warlocks just got the Imp Gang Boss, and Mages got Flamewaker. Both of these classes are spell heavy classes and yet they are also getting the best new OP minions in the game. If anyone should get OP minions it should be Paladin. Yet they give us Scarlet Purifier, which doesn't even come close to Imp Gang Boss or Flamewaker, and also Cobalt Guardian which is not even close to as valuable as a Goblin Blastmage, the Cobalt having worse stats, worse text, and costs more than the Blastmage, cause that makes sense. Give the spell class OP minions and lets give Paladin, the minion class, shit. Blizz logic.

Even more than a strong turn 3 minion, would love to see Paladin get some 1, 4, and 6 mana cost minions as 5 is already packed, and we have decent minions at the 2 and 3 spot.

Quote from Wildbeat321 »

What if that Nat Pagle was instead a Grommash....

Well I've dusted Golden Grom, but would never dust a Pagle.

Nat Pagle, Nozdormu, Harrison Jones, and Tirion Fordring were my favorite cards when I started playing. Was lucky enough to get Harrison as one of my first keepable Legendary cards from a pack and crafted the Tirion.

Nat Pagle and Nozdormu might not be the best or even viable Legedary cards, but I like 'em, would keep. Proly will even craft 'em if I don't pull them from a pack soon. Nat Pagle atleast has some use in my favorite class of Paladin, if only because Paladin draw cards are so terrible. Nozdormu, well, his effect may be questionable, but he's my favorite of the 5 Dragons. Atleast he got a slight buff from phone users and Patron players.

Exactly my thoughts! Anyway, I will not disenchant my second Dr. Boom for a while...

Thats what I am thinking as well. Bot a single one of them was on the nerf list. How many times them said that Undertaker won't ge nerfed?

Its okay guys Dr Boom is not on the nerf list. 

Just like Undertaker, Leeroy, Auctioneer, Pyroblast, Sylvanas, Nat Pagle, Tinkmaster, Buzzard etc... were not on the "nerf list" at first.

Well, I will have to keep my 2 golden dr.boom for a little longer apparently :p

Trying to make people disenchant their excess Booms I guess... I'm keeping mine no matter what he says!